ebay deal with buy.com angers individual sellers

wikes82 · 07-14-2008, 10:22 AM

The deal allows buy.com to list for free on ebay for unlimited items, while other sellers who has been loyal to ebay all this time still have to pay fees.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/te...=1&oref=slogin

Quote:

SAN FRANCISCO — The golden era of the small seller on eBay, hawking gewgaws and knickknacks from the basement or garage, is coming to a noisy and ignominious end.
Consumers appear to be tiring of online auctions, and rivals like Amazon.com are attracting more shoppers with fixed-price listings, while eBay has been struggling for growth. To shift toward that model, eBay has struck a deal with the Web retailer Buy.com that allows the company to sell millions of books, DVDs, electronics and other items on eBay without paying the full complement of eBay fees.

The recent change is one of several under eBay’s new chief, John Donahoe, that is stirring rancor among the faithful who depend on the site for their livelihood. The deal with Buy.com has added over five million fixed-price listings to eBay.com since the beginning of the year — for items from Xbox 360 video game consoles to Weber grills.

Since eBay’s search listings favor larger sellers who can add perks like free shipping, which improve their feedback ratings, Buy.com’s presence has hurt many smaller sellers that compete in those product categories.

EBay is signaling that its future lies with big, reliable sellers, not the mom and pop shops that are objecting so vociferously to the Buy.com deal, said Tim Boyd, an Internet analyst with American Technology Research. “It’s a tragic ending to what was once a warm and fuzzy Silicon Valley story,” he said.

EBay says the Buy.com deal will fill gaps in its product offerings while making shopping more predictable. Wall Street will be paying close attention to whether people are indeed buying at eBay.com in greater numbers when eBay reports its second-quarter earnings on Wednesday. This task is made more difficult because while there are more listings, it is not clear that more people are buying.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/industry-news/492646-ebay-deal-buy-com-angers-individual.html

“Frankly, we are challenging some of the core assumptions that we have made about our business,” said Stephanie Tilenius, general manager of eBay North America. “Instead of focusing on being an auction business, we are looking at what it takes to create the best marketplace out there.”
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=492646

Buy.com, based in Aliso Viejo, Calif., was founded in 1997. Within two years it made an initial public offering, only to nearly implode during the dot-com bust. In 2001, Scot Blum, its founder, took the company private. Buy.com carries no inventory, brokering sales through the same distributors that sell products to physical retail stores.

Unlike many small sellers who have made eBay a home over the last decade, Buy.com is large enough that it can offer free shipping, readily accept returns and provide a toll-free phone number — just the kind of customer service that eBay executives have hoped to bring to the sometimes unruly Internet bazaar.

To accommodate Buy.com, and other large sellers in the future, eBay last month announced a new “Diamond” level for its power sellers. Unlike its other classes of sellers, which pay eBay fees to list each item and share a percentage of each sale, Diamond sellers can negotiate their own fee arrangements with eBay.

Details of eBay’s deal with Buy.com are being kept private, though it appears from the sheer number of Buy.com listings flooding the site that Buy.com is not paying listing fees.

That has enraged many sellers, who have uncorked a wave of vitriol on eBay’s community forums about this and other changes. Many believe that eBay has violated the sacred tenet of the “level playing field,” which its founder, Pierre Omidyar, established as one of the company’s basic principles.

The way that eBay’s relationship with Buy.com emerged into public view did not help matters.

Tony Libby, a seller of technology items from Maine, first noticed Buy.com’s products on eBay in a quiet experiment the two companies conducted last December. When eBay began promoting Buy.com’s listings in its search results this spring, Mr. Libby, who says he used to sell more than $250,000 in computer hardware each month, watched his sales drop 50 to 75 percent.

Mr. Libby tipped off My Blog Utopia, an eBay-watching site that published an item in April about the relationship with Buy.com before eBay had a chance to announce it itself.

“As an independent seller, I felt betrayed,” Mr. Libby said. “I’ve paid eBay many hundreds of thousands in fees over the past several years and believed them when they talked about a level playing field. And they just plain and simple are going back on their word.”

“There is fair, and there is outright stabbing you in the back,” he said.

Kevin Harmon of Charlotte, N.C., who sold books, CDs and DVDs on eBay, said he stopped selling books altogether when the Buy.com effort began. “The way our fees are structured, we can’t compete with a company with free three-day fixed price listings,” he said. “You can imagine why most sellers are pretty upset about that deal.”

Unlike many other sellers, Mr. Harmon takes a measured attitude to the changes at eBay. “We have to fit our business model to theirs. Most sellers think it should be the other way around. They are doing what they think is the best for them and we just have to try to hang onto their tail,” he said.

Ms. Tilenius at eBay said the changes were fair because anyone can achieve Diamond power-seller status and have access to the same fee discounts as Buy.com — with a certain volume of monthly sales and high feedback from buyers.

“This is open to everyone. It’s a strong incentive for sellers to strive for greatness and grow their eBay business,” she said.

EBay resisted this type of arrangement for years, arguing that bringing other large sellers to the site would dilute eBay’s brand and reputation as a dynamic flea market.

But buyers’ expectations for online commerce have changed over the years, while eBay’s stock price — it closed Friday at $28.01 — is where it was two years ago, largely because of investors’ worries about the lack of growth in the auction business, analysts said.

“People now expect that something you buy online should be nicely wrapped in a box and sitting on your doorstep 48 hours later. The best companies like Amazon do that,” said Mark Mahaney, the director for Internet research at Citigroup. “EBay has to make it clear that it can participate in the fastest part of e-commerce growth.”

bmugford · 07-14-2008, 10:31 AM

eBay is going down the crapper.

cdboard · 07-14-2008, 01:20 PM

I noticed buy.com's numerous listings a few weeks ago when I was doing test searches (prior to signing up as an affiliate).

the seller "buy" showed several times, and I looked to see who had such a good ebay name. it was buy.com. I wonder what deal they made to get that login name.

I just checked, and they have over 500,000 items listed.

Rich · 07-14-2008, 01:31 PM

I'm with bmugford, they're making the worst decisions. Just when you think the worst change has hit ebay...Down with Donahoe!

Ronald Regging · 07-14-2008, 02:40 PM

I dont think there is a lack of interest from consumers when it comes to auctions. I see people all over the place saying that they wished there was a viable alternative to Ebay. Frankly, people are just turned off by Ebay's ever increasing listing fees, final valuation fees, Paypal fees, etc... They ran their business terribly, making horrible decisions the whole time and now they want to blame the consumers? Of course consumers are fed up with buying from Ebay, but it has absolutely nothing to do with an auction format. People love auctions. You can pick up things on Ebay far cheaper than you can buy them locally in most cases, because the national (and international) competition drives the prices down. This is especially true with used or collectible items.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=492646

Switching to a new format with fixed priced items is the nail in their coffin. Why continue using Ebay if all of their items are sold from Buy.com or some other major retailers? Why not just shop at those retailers directly? Ebay seems to be saying to the world that they screwed up, are now obsolete and would like to recommend it's users to some good retailers who aren't completely folding in on themselves.

Way to go Ebay!

bmugford · 07-14-2008, 03:30 PM

They hit you with listing fees, final value fees, paypal fees.

A few months ago they tried to package a rate increase to look like a decrease.
Here is the bottom line. Inflation should take care of it.

Let's say a car costs $2000 in 1960. Now it costs $20,000. The % fee should not change. The higher price should take care of it.

On top of that you have non-paying bidders with no recourse. Let's say I do a $19.95 featured listing and the winning bidder doesn't pay.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=492646

1.) I can't get my listing fee upgrades back, so I am out $19.95
2.) A Seller can no longer leave feedback for a Buyer. So a Buyer can use negative feedback as leverage against a seller.

Then they also have Paypal payments on some items being held not. Those DSR are a stupid idea. I have had people give me a "1" for Shipping Cost before when I have lost money on shipping.

The problem is not the health of online auctions. It is the health of eBay. They continue to make stupid decisions.

The market is so ripe for a company like Google to launch auctions with their own lower cost payment service and give eBay a wakeup call.

DnFloorCEO · 07-14-2008, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by bmugford

The market is so ripe for a company like Google to launch auctions with their own lower cost payment service and give eBay a wakeup call.

I completely agree. In fact, I also think Google needs to release a competitor to Paypal, or at the very least buy (and promote) MoneyBookers. Actually starting up the two business could start a nice synergy especially if they force "gbay" users to use "gpal".

Ronald Regging · 07-14-2008, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by FGclips

I completely agree. In fact, I also think Google needs to release a competitor to Paypal, or at the very least buy (and promote) MoneyBookers. Actually starting up the two business could start a nice synergy especially if they force "gbay" users to use "gpal".

They already have Google Checkout.

Compassion · 07-14-2008, 09:51 PM

Maybe Google should release a competitor to ebay.

This is BS that buy.com is exempt, I agree that this is ebay admitting they are obsolete.

What garbage by ebay.

PowerUp · 07-14-2008, 11:23 PM

Ebay practises double standards, favoritism, and discrimination.

bmugford · 07-14-2008, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by Ronald Regging

They already have Google Checkout.

Google checkout is more for business. They need a user to user service like Paypal.

dgridley · 07-14-2008, 11:44 PM

I heard about this last week.. ebay is positioning itself as another Amazon..

BIG mistake IMO.. but it does leave a vacuum for someone with enough cash to fill the auctions void.

mr-x · 07-15-2008, 12:19 AM

Ebay sucks and have shit on there customers at every turn.

On a related, happier note,

----
Yahoo! US Auction sites are retired!
Read more details here
As of June 3, 2007 listings are no longer accepted| As of June 16, 2007 bid/buy are no longer accepted
----

I think Yahoo auctions where a distant #2 behind behind ebay.

Ronald Regging · 07-15-2008, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by tres

Ebay sucks and have shit on there customers at every turn.

On a related, happier note,

----
Yahoo! US Auction sites are retired!
Read more details here
As of June 3, 2007 listings are no longer accepted| As of June 16, 2007 bid/buy are no longer accepted
----

I think Yahoo auctions where a distant #2 behind behind ebay.

I never even heard of Yahoo auctions

07-14-2008, 10:31 AM	#2 (permalink)
bmugford www.DataCube.com Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 5,838	eBay is going down the crapper. __________________ DataCube.com - Buy and Sell Premium Domains

07-14-2008, 03:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
bmugford www.DataCube.com Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 5,838	They hit you with listing fees, final value fees, paypal fees. A few months ago they tried to package a rate increase to look like a decrease. Here is the bottom line. Inflation should take care of it. Let's say a car costs $2000 in 1960. Now it costs $20,000. The % fee should not change. The higher price should take care of it. On top of that you have non-paying bidders with no recourse. Let's say I do a $19.95 featured listing and the winning bidder doesn't pay. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=492646 1.) I can't get my listing fee upgrades back, so I am out $19.95 2.) A Seller can no longer leave feedback for a Buyer. So a Buyer can use negative feedback as leverage against a seller. Then they also have Paypal payments on some items being held not. Those DSR are a stupid idea. I have had people give me a "1" for Shipping Cost before when I have lost money on shipping. The problem is not the health of online auctions. It is the health of eBay. They continue to make stupid decisions. The market is so ripe for a company like Google to launch auctions with their own lower cost payment service and give eBay a wakeup call. __________________ DataCube.com - Buy and Sell Premium Domains

07-14-2008, 11:44 PM	#12 (permalink)
dgridley NamePros Legend Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: SW Missouri Posts: 18,396 Follow @davew3b	I heard about this last week.. ebay is positioning itself as another Amazon.. BIG mistake IMO.. but it does leave a vacuum for someone with enough cash to fill the auctions void. __________________ davew3b tumblr blog \| davew3b posterous blog

07-14-2008, 01:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
cdboard NamePros Regular Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 651	I noticed buy.com's numerous listings a few weeks ago when I was doing test searches (prior to signing up as an affiliate). the seller "buy" showed several times, and I looked to see who had such a good ebay name. it was buy.com. I wonder what deal they made to get that login name. I just checked, and they have over 500,000 items listed.

07-14-2008, 01:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
Rich NamePros Regular Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Catskills Posts: 578	I'm with bmugford, they're making the worst decisions. Just when you think the worst change has hit ebay...Down with Donahoe!

07-14-2008, 02:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
Ronald Regging Ex-President Join Date: May 2006 Location: Mount Joy, PA Posts: 2,643	I dont think there is a lack of interest from consumers when it comes to auctions. I see people all over the place saying that they wished there was a viable alternative to Ebay. Frankly, people are just turned off by Ebay's ever increasing listing fees, final valuation fees, Paypal fees, etc... They ran their business terribly, making horrible decisions the whole time and now they want to blame the consumers? Of course consumers are fed up with buying from Ebay, but it has absolutely nothing to do with an auction format. People love auctions. You can pick up things on Ebay far cheaper than you can buy them locally in most cases, because the national (and international) competition drives the prices down. This is especially true with used or collectible items. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=492646 Switching to a new format with fixed priced items is the nail in their coffin. Why continue using Ebay if all of their items are sold from Buy.com or some other major retailers? Why not just shop at those retailers directly? Ebay seems to be saying to the world that they screwed up, are now obsolete and would like to recommend it's users to some good retailers who aren't completely folding in on themselves. Way to go Ebay!

07-14-2008, 09:51 PM	#9 (permalink)
Compassion Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: California Posts: 2,034	Maybe Google should release a competitor to ebay. This is BS that buy.com is exempt, I agree that this is ebay admitting they are obsolete. What garbage by ebay.

07-14-2008, 11:23 PM	#10 (permalink)
PowerUp Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,268	Ebay practises double standards, favoritism, and discrimination.

07-15-2008, 12:19 AM	#13 (permalink)
mr-x You are here: X Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: US Posts: 483	Ebay sucks and have shit on there customers at every turn. On a related, happier note, ---- Yahoo! US Auction sites are retired! Read more details here As of June 3, 2007 listings are no longer accepted\| As of June 16, 2007 bid/buy are no longer accepted ---- I think Yahoo auctions where a distant #2 behind behind ebay.

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