Greek Confirmations

htmlindex · 01-26-2011, 01:57 AM

I would appreciate confirmations, especially from native speakers if they are correct. Just the terms, no need to confirm if it's an accented/unaccented version.

καφεδεσ xn--mxagcbv2dr.com Coffees
τσαγια xn--mxaafy1cf.com Teas
σοκολάτεσ xn--hxasnesbzgh.com Chocolates
δωρεάν xn--hxapd7ar1c.net Free
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/idn-discussion/698759-greek-confirmations.html
κορίτσι xn--kxaubukng.net Girl
κορίτσια xn--kxaexczmph.net Girls
γυναικεσ xn--mxadhpfp0ck.net Women
νυφη xn--sxalye.com Bride
νύφεσ xn--qxaptk8a.com Brides
ξανθιά xn--hxajvese.com Blonde
ξανθιέσ xn--ixahvese4b.com Blondes
δωρεάνπορνό xn--hxapd7aalgef7exb.com Free Porn
περιποίησηδέρματοσ xn--ixadhkdnan6ayhbcmi2ahq.com Skincare
περιποίησησμαλλιών xn--kxaekjajepahppkcn1bb7r.com Haircare
τριχόπτωση xn--sxadvcmcdwu1a.com Hair Loss

Comments greatly appreciated

elias75 · 01-26-2011, 02:29 AM

in plural, the final "s" should be this: "ς" and not "σ"

example καφεδες not καφεδεσ

also in this περιποίησησμαλλιών the highlighted "s" letter is not needed

I hope it helps

htmlindex · 01-26-2011, 03:00 AM

Thanks for the comments Elias, greatly appreciated

In terms of the letter "s", for some reason Google puts both versions as the same for "ς" and "σ" as when you do a CTRL+F, it will highlight them all as the same letter. Do you know why this is?

In regards to the highlighted letter not being needed in "περιποίησησμαλλιών", if you remove that letter only, won't that word not make sense?

Your comments greatly appreciated so I can get an understanding of this

elias75 · 01-26-2011, 08:19 AM

I don't know why Google does this.... In Greek language there are two types of s's. This "σ" is used always in the middle (or the beginning) of any word and this "ς" is always used as a "final s". Having an "ς" in the middle of the word simply looks silly cause such a thing doesn't exist. Even auto-translation scripts follow this rule

in "περιποίησησμαλλιών" removing the "σ" will actually make more sense in modern Greek language. It can also make sense if you place a hyphen in bewteen the two words and change it to "ς" so that it looks like "περιποίησης-μαλλιών" . Generally speaking having an "ς" at the end of some words like "περιποίησης" is kinda old fashioned - people used to talk and speak like this in the 1950's. In modern Greek language you will only hear and read the phrase "περιποίηση μαλλιών" (without the "ς"). Having said that, saying this phrase with the "ς" will make it sound VERY formal but even so very rarely it is used....
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=698759

I hope this is not confusing, Greek language and grammar has countless complex rules and sub-rules....

Acroplex · 01-26-2011, 09:14 AM

For the sake of IDN domains the 'σ' versus the final sigma 'ς' make no difference in the punycode. What does make a difference, however, is the toned version vs. the one lacking the tone.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=698759

E.g. καφεδες.com and καφέδες.com are two different domains. In other words, if you don't own them both you miss 50% of the potential traffic.

Now, bear in mind that due to the widespread use of Latin keyboards when texting and typing, Greeks would never even type those IDN domains, especially needing to switch to Greek for the domain and back to Latin for the suffix.

To recap: these words are 'valid' - although, as Elias said the 'σ' appears in the middle of a word and 'ς' when it's the last letter - but I seriously doubt you're doing anything more than waste reg fees for all of them.

Billidn · 01-26-2011, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Acroplex

Now, bear in mind that due to the widespread use of Latin keyboards when texting and typing, Greeks would never even type those IDN domains, especially needing to switch to Greek for the domain and back to Latin for the suffix.

To recap: these words are 'valid' - although, as Elias said the 'σ' appears in the middle of a word and 'ς' when it's the last letter - but I seriously doubt you're doing anything more than waste reg fees for all of them.

What do Greeks that don't read or write in English do? Don't you think they use a Greek alphabet keyboard to communicate??
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=698759

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q...og&sa=N&tab=wi

Acroplex · 01-26-2011, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Billidn

What do Greeks that don't read or write in English do? Don't you think they use a Greek alphabet keyboard to communicate??

My friend, you missed the point completely.

People that aren't familiar with the culture of the IDN they are investing in, believing that by getting hold of a dictionary they are all set, they are doomed from the get-go.

The majority of Greeks on the Internet text/email and type in "Greeklish" - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeklish

As a Greek myself, I don't condone it. Προτιμώ να γράφω Ελληνικά. In Greeklish: Protimw na grafw Ellinika. I prefer to write in Greek. But it's the sad reality. That's why Greek IDNs have no real value or potential.

Billidn · 01-26-2011, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Acroplex

My friend, you missed the point completely.

People that aren't familiar with the culture of the IDN they are investing in, believing that by getting hold of a dictionary they are all set, they are doomed from the get-go.

The majority of Greeks on the Internet text/email and type in "Greeklish" - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeklish

As a Greek myself, I don't condone it. Προτιμώ να γράφω Ελληνικά. In Greeklish: Protimw na grafw Ellinika. I prefer to write in Greek. But it's the sad reality. That's why Greek IDNs have no real value or potential.

OK...I buy that for the 30%- 40% (guesstimate) of the population that speak Greek and English. But what about those that don't read, write or speak any English? That was the point in developing IDNs.

Seems that to see a (Greek language)IDN.com for example... Ελληνικά.com up on a billboard, or in an advertisement would be memorable for branding and easy for Greek (non-english) speakers to remember. Then when they go on the internet they can look for that website if it is of interest to them. Cheap advertising for $8 bucks a year reg fee.

For those that speak and read only Greek, it seems a waste to use latin.com as most can not read them. You can only reach the vast majority of the Greek population with native domains....IMO. But won't hurt companies to have BOTH the ascii and idn versions of keywords.

Acroplex · 01-26-2011, 09:18 PM

Not sure how you assume 30% of the population can understand basic English. I assure you, that it's 80%+ in terms of full comprehension of context and when marketed to e.g. with short phrases or slogans, the rate is almost 100%. Therefore, if you want to market e.g. "Πλαίσιο Computers" the URL will be Plaisio.gr

The use of IDN domains in commerce and daily promotion (Greek alphabet + .com/.gr) is non-existent. Companies go for the latinized (Greeklish) word + .gr first, other TLDs as well.

Again, please don't confuse two things: writing in Greek is not the same as *searching* on the Internet. E.g. if I am a student and I have to write an essay at school, I will use Greek. But to my friends on mobile phones, on the chat, twitter, facebook etc. I will use latin characters to type the exact Greek words phonetically. That's Greeklish.

Another example: Portokalada.com is a Greek portal (it means orange juice). Someone owns portokalada.gr (ok so far...) and on it, he's trying to sell the IDN domains πορτοκαλαδα.gr and πορτοκαλάδα.gr - among other ASCII domains.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=698759

He will be sitting on those useless IDNs for a long time!

---------- Post added 01-27-2011 at 12:18 AM ---------- Previous post was 01-26-2011 at 11:44 PM ----------

In case you have any further questions, I wrote this article last year and it covers some aspects of the subject, perhaps in a light manner but accurately all the same

Billidn · 01-27-2011, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Acroplex

Not sure how you assume 30% of the population can understand basic English. I assure you, that it's 80%+ in terms of full comprehension of context and when marketed to e.g. with short phrases or slogans, the rate is almost 100%. Therefore, if you want to market e.g. "Πλαίσιο Computers" the URL will be Plaisio.gr

I lived and worked in Athens for 2 years (and I don't speak Greek). I was one of the expatriate managers of a large hotel in downtown Athens. Outside of the realm of the Greek business world, business owners, hospitality school grads, supervisory positions, bellman, waiters and up the vast majority of the population did not speak much, if any English. Yes my guesstimate was 30-40% of the entire population. And I did not speak any Greek...so it was a daily occurance. It was fun...especially in the butcher shops, lykeas etc.
We used to "oink, oink" to let them know we wanted pork.

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=698759

None of our line employees...kitchen, housekeeping, stewarding etc. spoke any english. Or...they were all pulling my leg!! Travelling outside of Athens, again very few spoke English. When we went to a taverna way off the beaten path the owner was usually the waiter and cook and spoke no english....we were usually invited back to the kitchen and simply "pointed" to what we wanted.

I will add that the Greeks are among the most friendly and hospitable people in the world and if anyone gets a chance to visit it is an amazing country and something everyone should put on their "to do" list.

Acroplex · 01-27-2011, 09:58 AM

Apparently you had no idea that most of the cheaply employed hotel crew was most likely: Albanian, Ukrainian, etc. But even so - and assuming you are American - you'd be surprised to find out that lack of use of English (or other language) does equal lack of *comprehension*

Equating the spoken use of a language to how it's used on electronic media, including computers and the Internet is inherently false.

If you don't understand my position regarding Greek IDNs, I've already made a new post at my blog.

Billidn · 01-29-2011, 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by Acroplex

Apparently you had no idea that most of the cheaply employed hotel crew was most likely: Albanian, Ukrainian, etc. But even so - and assuming you are American - you'd be surprised to find out that lack of use of English (or other language) does equal lack of *comprehension*

Equating the spoken use of a language to how it's used on electronic media, including computers and the Internet is inherently false.

If you don't understand my position regarding Greek IDNs, I've already made a new post at my blog.

Our employees were 90% Greek and we made damn sure all the rest were legal. Expats all had legal docs, and some were legal by virtue of being married to Greeks. Multi-national companies in Greece better have (among other things) their employees paperwork in order. The labor ministry and market police were not friendly to those that bent the law. I saw a good few vendors hauled away for "tipping the scales" at the open air markets. Interesting enough...our personnel director was a lawyer.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=698759

I do appreciate your opinion and insight on Greek IDNs...but still think in the hands of clever advertising agencies they will be not only eyecatching, but popular for marketing, advertising and branding. I think even nationalism and pride will play in to see the internet has gone "Greek".

It is a wise investment for companies to get the English, Greekish and IDN versions both accented and unaccented of keywords. Who knows how google etc will treat IDNs in the algorithyms. Those that don't hedge all their bets, especially for $8 bucks a year reg fee could pay a huge price for having a hazy crystal ball.

***Makis.TV*** · 01-29-2011, 05:53 AM

I m Greek and living in Greece.
Fact 1: Greeks would never type a greek idn in .com
Fact 2: Greek language is way complicated because of the toned and
"σ" and "ς" syntax and grammar rules.
Fact 3: Greeks between 12 to 55 are very comfortable using english for simple tasks.
Fact 4 and most important: about 90% of the greeks using the internet are familiar with english, they type in greek words in so called greeklish and if they ever come up to an greek idn domain next time they ll try to visit they probably type the greeklish equivalent.

Acro sums it up pretty good in his blog post.

TheHero · 02-20-2011, 04:51 AM

I agree with Makis.
I have some domains with greek characters but my greeklish domains are better.

01-26-2011, 01:57 AM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
htmlindex NamePros Legend Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,355	Greek Confirmations I would appreciate confirmations, especially from native speakers if they are correct. Just the terms, no need to confirm if it's an accented/unaccented version. καφεδεσ xn--mxagcbv2dr.com Coffees τσαγια xn--mxaafy1cf.com Teas σοκολάτεσ xn--hxasnesbzgh.com Chocolates δωρεάν xn--hxapd7ar1c.net Free ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/idn-discussion/698759-greek-confirmations.html κορίτσι xn--kxaubukng.net Girl κορίτσια xn--kxaexczmph.net Girls γυναικεσ xn--mxadhpfp0ck.net Women νυφη xn--sxalye.com Bride νύφεσ xn--qxaptk8a.com Brides ξανθιά xn--hxajvese.com Blonde ξανθιέσ xn--ixahvese4b.com Blondes δωρεάνπορνό xn--hxapd7aalgef7exb.com Free Porn περιποίησηδέρματοσ xn--ixadhkdnan6ayhbcmi2ahq.com Skincare περιποίησησμαλλιών xn--kxaekjajepahppkcn1bb7r.com Haircare τριχόπτωση xn--sxadvcmcdwu1a.com Hair Loss Comments greatly appreciated __________________ Domain Hack For Sale: Buchare.st - Capital & largest city in Romania. Expires 2015, PM if interested. Top Rated Web Hosting

01-26-2011, 02:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
elias75 NamePros Regular Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 699	in plural, the final "s" should be this: "ς" and not "σ" example καφεδες not καφεδεσ also in this περιποίησησμαλλιών the highlighted "s" letter is not needed I hope it helps __________________ Domain Name Auctions

01-26-2011, 03:00 AM	THREAD STARTER #3 (permalink)
htmlindex NamePros Legend Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,355	Thanks for the comments Elias, greatly appreciated In terms of the letter "s", for some reason Google puts both versions as the same for "ς" and "σ" as when you do a CTRL+F, it will highlight them all as the same letter. Do you know why this is? In regards to the highlighted letter not being needed in "περιποίησησμαλλιών", if you remove that letter only, won't that word not make sense? Your comments greatly appreciated so I can get an understanding of this __________________ Domain Hack For Sale: Buchare.st - Capital & largest city in Romania. Expires 2015, PM if interested. Top Rated Web Hosting

01-26-2011, 08:19 AM	#4 (permalink)
elias75 NamePros Regular Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 699	I don't know why Google does this.... In Greek language there are two types of s's. This "σ" is used always in the middle (or the beginning) of any word and this "ς" is always used as a "final s". Having an "ς" in the middle of the word simply looks silly cause such a thing doesn't exist. Even auto-translation scripts follow this rule in "περιποίησησμαλλιών" removing the "σ" will actually make more sense in modern Greek language. It can also make sense if you place a hyphen in bewteen the two words and change it to "ς" so that it looks like "περιποίησης-μαλλιών" . Generally speaking having an "ς" at the end of some words like "περιποίησης" is kinda old fashioned - people used to talk and speak like this in the 1950's. In modern Greek language you will only hear and read the phrase "περιποίηση μαλλιών" (without the "ς"). Having said that, saying this phrase with the "ς" will make it sound VERY formal but even so very rarely it is used.... ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=698759 I hope this is not confusing, Greek language and grammar has countless complex rules and sub-rules.... __________________ Domain Name Auctions

01-26-2011, 09:14 AM	#5 (permalink)
Acroplex Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,824	For the sake of IDN domains the 'σ' versus the final sigma 'ς' make no difference in the punycode. What does make a difference, however, is the toned version vs. the one lacking the tone. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=698759 E.g. καφεδες.com and καφέδες.com are two different domains. In other words, if you don't own them both you miss 50% of the potential traffic. Now, bear in mind that due to the widespread use of Latin keyboards when texting and typing, Greeks would never even type those IDN domains, especially needing to switch to Greek for the domain and back to Latin for the suffix. To recap: these words are 'valid' - although, as Elias said the 'σ' appears in the middle of a word and 'ς' when it's the last letter - but I seriously doubt you're doing anything more than waste reg fees for all of them. __________________ DomainGang.com - Digital Entertainment for Domainers Acroplex - Web & Graphics Acro.net - My Blog

01-26-2011, 09:18 PM	#9 (permalink)
Acroplex Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,824	Not sure how you assume 30% of the population can understand basic English. I assure you, that it's 80%+ in terms of full comprehension of context and when marketed to e.g. with short phrases or slogans, the rate is almost 100%. Therefore, if you want to market e.g. "Πλαίσιο Computers" the URL will be Plaisio.gr The use of IDN domains in commerce and daily promotion (Greek alphabet + .com/.gr) is non-existent. Companies go for the latinized (Greeklish) word + .gr first, other TLDs as well. Again, please don't confuse two things: writing in Greek is not the same as searching on the Internet. E.g. if I am a student and I have to write an essay at school, I will use Greek. But to my friends on mobile phones, on the chat, twitter, facebook etc. I will use latin characters to type the exact Greek words phonetically. That's Greeklish. Another example: Portokalada.com is a Greek portal (it means orange juice). Someone owns portokalada.gr (ok so far...) and on it, he's trying to sell the IDN domains πορτοκαλαδα.gr and πορτοκαλάδα.gr - among other ASCII domains. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=698759 He will be sitting on those useless IDNs for a long time! ---------- Post added 01-27-2011 at 12:18 AM ---------- Previous post was 01-26-2011 at 11:44 PM ---------- In case you have any further questions, I wrote this article last year and it covers some aspects of the subject, perhaps in a light manner but accurately all the same __________________ DomainGang.com - Digital Entertainment for Domainers Acroplex - Web & Graphics Acro.net - My Blog Last edited by Acroplex; 01-26-2011 at 08:48 PM.

01-27-2011, 09:58 AM	#11 (permalink)
Acroplex Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,824	Apparently you had no idea that most of the cheaply employed hotel crew was most likely: Albanian, Ukrainian, etc. But even so - and assuming you are American - you'd be surprised to find out that lack of use of English (or other language) does equal lack of comprehension Equating the spoken use of a language to how it's used on electronic media, including computers and the Internet is inherently false. If you don't understand my position regarding Greek IDNs, I've already made a new post at my blog. __________________ DomainGang.com - Digital Entertainment for Domainers Acroplex - Web & Graphics Acro.net - My Blog

01-29-2011, 05:53 AM	#13 (permalink)
*Makis.TV* Business Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Glyfada, Greece Posts: 2,826 Follow @makismour	I m Greek and living in Greece. Fact 1: Greeks would never type a greek idn in .com Fact 2: Greek language is way complicated because of the toned and "σ" and "ς" syntax and grammar rules. Fact 3: Greeks between 12 to 55 are very comfortable using english for simple tasks. Fact 4 and most important: about 90% of the greeks using the internet are familiar with english, they type in greek words in so called greeklish and if they ever come up to an greek idn domain next time they ll try to visit they probably type the greeklish equivalent. Acro sums it up pretty good in his blog post. __________________ Check your Speed Test in just a few seconds Domain blogging, hosting tips, wordpress theme reviews and development Kids and Teens Alopecia Online Convert your psd layout 2 joomla template

02-20-2011, 04:51 AM	#14 (permalink)
TheHero NamePros Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Thessaloniki Posts: 38	I agree with Makis. I have some domains with greek characters but my greeklish domains are better.

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