defaultuser

Posted in another Thread. Deleted because it was off topic. But in order to make a complete asshat of myself I've decided to post it here in all its glory.

In five years I will come back and see how right I was. I've already been to the future which makes it easier to make these kind of laughable assertions.

You're entitled to your difference of opinion. You're certainly far more experienced than I; however, I've got the advantage of having visited the future.

There is a transition afoot. I think generics may have their place - but I just don't like them in the TV namespace and they will lesses in the whole global tld namespace soon enough.

I'm not sure the "obvious" potential. I have no idea what I would do with it other than look at it and think how jealous everyone else was.

I have been on vacations and booked them online - I never search by hotel. I search by destination... in fact my first stop is always kayak.com (to get a price baseline) and then the rough guide series (excellent guides too).

I think it has been proven by now that SEO value is in developed content and not purely name alone. The real value of a domain in the market space that is "hotel" is in repeat visitors and traffic. I don't know that "Hotel.TV" buys you that. It's memorable so it's not bad but I don't think it's ENGAGING which is my new mantra. So it's a decent domain but not a killer one that I'd pay for in a "heartbeat".

In real domaining terms 10K is peanuts but in pure domainer terms it's quite a large amount with uncertainty of returns. Like everything else - find an end user and make a great ROI. With regular renewal - it's probably an easy gamble. Some of the more connected guys here could no doubt flip it for $100,000,000... (I exagerrate, but reasonable ROI I'm sure exists for those guys/gals)

What always makes me laugh is statements like :

I'd take hotel.tv in a heartbeat if I could afford it.

If I was so sure of something that I would take it in a heartbeat I could afford it. End of discussion. It means nothing when people say "IF something I WOULD do something".

This isn't meant as a slight on you - it's a general observation of people. In fact, I'm sure I've probably said it before - probably yesterday. But if someone offers me $50 for a $10 I don't think I would ever say, "well I would but I am short right now", which is essentially what you're implying or I'm inferring.

In looking at an overall picture. Generics are high return. But in terms of overall cost to an end user - the acquisition of generics is far less than the development of a flagship domain. I tend to believe that the latter is the future - PARTICULARLY in the TV space.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=674243

I hope everyone who invests proves me wrong. I just don't see the OBVIOUS use of Hotel/Medicine. Resort I'm more agreeable to :-)

Just speculating. Probably considered bullsh*tting but its more interesting to read this than "just regged poopee.tv" I'm hoping.

OR I REALLY WILL QUIT!

Full disclosure: I own BuildingSociety.TV... now THERE'S a generic but at the price?!? couldn't turn it down.... So I'm not ANTI-generics. I'm just not seeing them as the great ROI of the future.. especially in the TVs.

I really need to blog more and write here less. You can all begin the hatin' now that you think Snoop has convinced me to go to the dark side (which he hasn't.. I'm just bored with separation of domaining and intelligent marketing... I think the gap is closing RAPIDLY)


I hope the new owners make mucho dinero!
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equity78

Your probably not boring, its more that domaining is boring IMO. If you are on forums and blogs day in and day out then there is not enough going on for an excitement or adrenalin junkie.

I think you have to look at the whole picture with a generic .tv and look at the rest of extension. People want the category killer in .com and many alternatives are taken too. In .tv there are many alternatives available so if the generic is priced too high someone will look for something else. You will never convince a keyword elitist the second cousin of the .commie of this. It is key to the mantra so you cannot sway from the mantra. Generics make sense when priced reasonably, Antonis is no dummy and not strapped for cash so when he drops something I think the drop carries more weight. Again IMO

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snoop

What was the price, 10k outright? If so I would say it is ok.

Personally I don't see a very clear business model with the name though. A site with videos about hotels to try and sell rooms? I'd call that a stretch, imagine what it would cost to get decent coverage.

mwzd

Yeah, most people probably wouldn't, but then that's why such people pay people like me - to provide workable ideas and solutions.

If you can't understand the seo value differential between stayinme.tv and hotel.tv - I really don't have the time to explain it to you. But ask anyone seo 'expert' and see what they say, don't take my word for it.

Your call tbh, everyone is entitled to put their money where their mouth is, or not.

What exactly do you find funny about it? I don't have access to limitless funds, surprising at that may seem to you. And one prioritizes costs and expenses and also to take into account ROI and opportunity costs, if you haven't figured that out yet, you will for sure, specially in this business.

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=674243
Infer all you like, my statement remains unchanged - if I had the cash and this was available, I'd take it in a heartbeat.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=674243

If the domain was absolutely critical to my business going forward, I'd find or raise the money, but this isn't.

If brandables are so important in .tv, shouldn't such a post be more interesting for you than talking about a stupid generic like Hotel.tv

I can see why it's being dropped - premium renewals - but with standard renewal and even a 10k price tag, I'm willing to bet there will be people falling all over themselves to get their hands on this. Where is it going to be available btw? Haven't really been following the conversation.

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snoop

I think that is key reason for someone buying a keyword domain now (in the past type ins was perhaps equally as important or more important-esp with domainers). Defaultuser can say it is mainly about content till the cows come home but people will pay (often a lot of money) for the benefit of using an exact match domain in the right tld, in terms better rankings, higher ctr, lower PPC costs etc.

ThreeD

That's why you're probably NOT a designer/developer I could give you 5 ideas right now..

We obviously need to stop developing and watch the drop market a little more

Snoop - a hotel review site? Travel site? I agree that people probably won't go there to make their reservations or book flights etc, but a video review site of hotels from all over the world, their services and much more would probably work. All video content ofcourse! More research would be needed to determine if that kind of site could be successful, but my guess is that it could work.

When ownig a domain like Hotel.TV or Resort.TV one should also think about "leadgen" and the potential income it can add to a site.

PS: On a sidenote, I think "Resort" was definitely the best one. It has so much potential! Anyone know what the "one-time" premium was on the premiums that dropped?

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snoop

How much money do you think it would cost to go around the world shooting video for your hotel review site? Even then the coverage would be tiny. Now if people "won't go there to make their reservations or book flights etc" what is the point of the site? Load it up with ads and hope that will pay for film crews to fly the world?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=674243

Contrary to yours, my guess is that it would be unlikely to work. It is all contrived stuff, not something with an obvious business model behind it.

ThreeD

I don't know how much money is needed, that's why I said more research would be necessary to figure out a cost model & business plan.

The point of the site is to inform people. Hotel facts and what they offer, on-site customer interviews, local activities, the options are endless. Information = visitors, visitors = ads, ads = money. It's a basic principal that works every time. Once you get a steady flow of visitors, companies will want to advertise on the site, ads or leadgens. Pre/Post ad rolls are obviously the best solution (even mid clip ads can do the trick). The last thing I like to see is a .TV plastered with ad banners and PPC ads.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=674243

Like any "big" business plan the start-up costs are definitely high, but if it's well planned and coordinated I don't see why it won't work. Remember, I'm not talking about a domainer doing the development here, I'm talking about a company that can use the domain to it's full potential.

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defaultuser

Sure - a site about a hotel. Sure - a brand name for a channel that gets streamed into a hotel room. A minisite about hotels. There we go. Three obvious uses.
Perhaps I meant - "limited reseller opportunity". I don't see many people looking at spending over 10K on those opportunities.

If I were an industry insider? If I were a broker? Maybe if like you I was in the "biz". Sure. I shouldn't have to qualify everything with imho... ok I will.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=674243

As snoopy says. Useless analogy. I said name alone. Stayinme sounds like a porn site...

Top search results for Coffee on google are starbucks.com and gevalia.com and not coffee.com. This doesn't mean I would argue that the name doesn't matter at all.


It's funny to me because the implication of in a heartbeat implies that the price is far under value. An obvious bargain.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=674243

Either it's a sure thing or it's not.

If you have to take into account ROI and opportunity costs then that's a minimum of 3500 heartbeats to me and the 10K isn't that obvious a value.

If someone wanted to talk about their plans for poopie.tv, yes. That they regged it? No. It's the discussion I like. Not the statement that someone performed the simple act of spending money on a domain The only restriction on someone registering a name is access to capital and the domain availability - as you mentioned.

It's gone. I'm sure a number of people went after it. I'm sure that it will change hands (probably at a good ROI). Doesn't mean I like it

I don't like American Idol either and 20 million+ can't all be wrong.

DU

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Jason.tv

just out of curiosity, how much do you guys think hotel or resort was sold today for?

Jason

defaultuser

$1090
$500

According to name.com which would make the above discussion very different where I was using the value of 10K :-)

---------- Post added at 02:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:56 AM ----------

So you give me two:

Hotel Review
Travel Site

Neither used to make travel sales. I'd love to hear the other three!
//I'm just teasing.

Luckily Hotel.tv is on Sedo so we will have a chance to discuss potential ideas for a while.
Resort.TV may well be short of MY development capabilities right now :-)

imho
Resort is 10x the name that Hotel is in the .TV space.
The reverse is true in the .com space

But I've firmly established I have no idea what I'm talking about.

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ThreeD

hehe so you called me out huh...well I know my top two are the best options but anyways, here are 5 I can come up with off the top of my head.

1) Travel site
2) Hotel reviews
3) A hotel booking system (even though I don't think that'll work in the long run)
4) A hotel infomercial site (streaming at various hotels)
5) Subdomains for hotels that want to promote their own hotel with video content if they don't have a website of their own (belair.hotel.tv , FourSeasons.hotel.tv etc etc)
6) A hotel tv channel for shopping and local attractions etc etc..

I totally agree with you, that's why I've said all along I can't believe we missed out on 'Resort' ... the domain has a lot of potential and I would've backordered it without hesitation. (money is not an issue here, more of the timining of our awareness )

On a sidenote - Why is it when I visit the name.com website I can't see the prices of the premiums that sold yesterday? Do I have to be logged in?

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eyedomainous

Resort business is seasonal, so I like Hotel.tv better. I have a resort tv site and several hotel tv sites... but I skirt the 'premium' issue, and the ".tv or .com" thing, with mostly tv.com domains.

As far as business models... the hotel "in-room" tv industry is where the money is. The current content delivery system is ripe for its apple cart to be tipped... as it is built on the 1970's cable TV model of satellite feed to head-end to coaxial tethered set-top boxes. Their content model, of being the only outlet for non-broadcast TV producrion houses, is also spent.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=674243

The internet, and wireless HD, changes all that. Now, many of the premium cable subscription channels are looking to go 'Over The Top' of Cable companies -with those "packages", and offer their channels, and programs, ala carte, over the web.

A Hotel and/or Resort TV site that can offer a subscription based channel guide service to online content will make a fortune... and still have room to do the ad supported tourism & booking stuff on the side.

Last year, I launched the first web powered in-room hotel tv channel. It was quickly copied by LogeNet -the largest provider of in-room tv, at $450 milllion a year. While it was a knock-down blow... I'm not 'out'. I'm still in the game and I have plan-of-attack for the next round.

Besides, things are about to get very interesting as Google TV launches, with the first internet TV set-top box, this fall.

JCR

For me, hotel.tv is a killer name. A review hotel site is a great tool, specially if you want to choose a luxury hotel.
In case you don´t know TVtrip: tvtrip.com

Regards

snoop

In my view the idea of "throwing a lot of money at something and it will work" isn't really a good argument. I don't see any practical business model for this name, something that something is actually likely to do, something that is likely to work with a real world budget. It isn't a top tier name in the scheme of things (outside of .tv) so whoever buys it isn't likely to buy with the idea of spending tens of millions on it.

If I owned hotels.com it would be relatively straightforward, if I owned hotels.popular country code that would be relatively straightforward as well, but a video site about hotels? I don't see it.

freedom30

...which was the problem that Don Quixote always experienced when riding his ass backwards and seeing only the 20th century in his path.

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snoop

We're in the crap zone again. Genuine discussion please......

ThreeD

You're forgetting the most important thing here. We, as in me or any of the people I work with, have not done any research on this. If I was to throw a team at a task like hotel.tv a lot of research would be needed. We have not done any research because it's not our domain, so it's hard for me to sit here and say that a project of this magnitude is a go or not.

I see the potential of the name, but without any research it's a risky project. Risk is always a negative factor if you plan to invest a lot of hours and money into a project. You can reduce the risk numerous ways, collecting information is one of the crucial factors.

The beauty of ANY business in todays world is that some people see things, other people don't. Usually the innovative mind sees a lot more than everybody else. Some are good business ideas, some are bad. The important thing is to seperate the good from the bad and go for it. If you don't see the potential of the domain, I'm sure other people might pull something off, like eyedomainous.

How would you know? It's all speculation. You don't have to spend tens of millions on it to get a good website going. It's all about the dev process and the maturing of a project as time goes along.

I can't say much on that, hotels.com is a category killer and it is like you said pretty much straight forward. BUT - you shouldn't think of it as a video site only. The website could hold a lot of videos, but also incorporate text, image galleries and everything else a .com would hold. Video would ofcourse stand for most of the content as it is a .TV but that doesn't mean all the other content types are excluded.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=674243
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=674243

I also think there is a big difference in potential if you look at the singular/plural issue. Hotel.TV works better for .TV and Hotels.com works better for .com.

Oh well, it's all in the eye of the beholder

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freedom30

...point seems to be that you are still dwelling on and languishing in an extension that, while still stronger than the others, has grown weaker with the sheer amount of 21st technology that exists regarding cyberspace and people are purchasing and using the other extensions, .tv included.

The overpriced and to many overrated .com is not as strong as it once was as the younger generation is not as discriminating when they see other extensions with bonafide websites while the .com has a parked page or poorly developed website.

It is inconsequential to me how much someone buys a .com for, the same name in the more reasonably priced .tv(or any other extension for that matter) will surpass it if developed and marketed well.

Hotel.tv provides a great example as it can be a money maker with the right application of marketing by a serious company. I do not know how much you know about or comprehend marketing, but it does work, Snoop.

I only suggested that you do not visualize any of these trends because you appear to be hopelessly mired in the 20th century, when .com was king and basically the only game in town, that's all. That page of history is quickly getting older as old and new endusers purchase and develop sites in the .tv extension.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=674243

So ever onward, my brave crusader, and do not allow the future to get in the way of your progress!

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snoop

What does any of this mean? people can do anything?

I'm simply asking where the obvious business model is here. The only answer seems to be you could do all sorts of "new innovative things" if you were a huge company and had a lot of money.

Someone who is a creative thinker might pull something off? That could be said of any domain.

Here is a question: Instead of someone with the talents and money of Mark Zuckerberg owning it, how about if the average web developer owned it? Could he build sound decent with it? That is the acid test of a domain with good potential. Is there a clear model?..is it obviously doable?

It is more of an obvious thing, if someone spends say 20k on a domain a couple of rungs down the ladder that is unlikely to be some massive company with a huge development budget.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=674243

If the focus of the site was something other than video then it wouldn't make much sense. You could say the above about any .tv that doesn't have very good fit with the extension.

ThreeD

I have to agree with you on this. .com is somewhat overpriced, but it's all a matter of supply and demand. Notice that most of the "big" .com sales are made between US owners/companies. That's because the people in the US primarily uses .com! Most people within the US aren't aware of other extensions, including .TV and .US.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=674243

In Europe or Asia that's a completely different story.

The good thing is that the younger generarion is picking up on things fast and they're more "open minded" (I don't want to step on any feet here) or let me say they're not so "locked in" on .com. Why? Because other TLD's may be better suited for what they're trying to achieve. The young generation is all about video and interactive media, thanks to new interactive possibilities and technological advances. Video blogs, media websites, interactive tv shows online, you name it. Why would they choose a secondary .com over a great, brandable .TV? They don't and that's why TLD's like .TV will pick up the pace fast. As previously stated in this thread, googleTV will also contribute to the merging of internet and television (time will show if that helps the .TV extension forward)

BUT, I have to say that I'm seeing the same "parking" tendencies in .TV land so unless things change for the better, .TV is just as bad as .COM in terms of a development / parking page ratio.

I personally HATE parked pages. I'd love to see every domain developed. For .TV to move forward it's important to promote the extension with media-rich content and quality websites. Parked pages won't do .TV any good, not now and not in the long run!

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Jason.tv

this domain has more value and potential then you think, I am very surprised by all the comments I have seen.

Expedia Affiliate allows Hotel bookings from not only the US but all over the World,
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=674243

Over 100k hotels: EAN has access to over 100k hotels globally, over half of which are individually negotiated by Expedia's in-house lodging team. Our scale and relationship with suppliers that have access to availability and rates that makes Expedia the market leader.

They have access to a deep hotel inventory and packaging technology that makes for a richer travel offering for the customers

this works by the xml intergration branded into your site though api, you can see a perfect example using this at travelnow ,

lets see some more negative comments..

Jason

freedom30

...I concur with most of what you are expressing here, and don't forget that the web is no longer limited to the desktop, laptop and HDTV and game consoles. It has become rather mobile with the technology of today(iPhone, iPod, ipad and whatever awaits us in the near future), so it is imperative that .tv pick up the pace and develop itself and NOT rust in sedo's(or anyone else's) parking lot as .com seems content to do.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=674243

The future presents both challenges and benfits to the newer extensions as .com prices itself out of relevance. And .tv will pick up the slack that .com is providing.

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ThreeD

It means that ANY project involves taking risks, that goes for Hotel.TV as well. You can never guarantee 100% success for a project, but intelligence and information can help remove the factors that eventually may have led to the failure of a project.

If you still don't see the business model, a good example would be eyedomainous's post. I will say this one more time - you don't need a lot of money to start a successful project. How do you think Google and facebook started out? I'm pretty sure they didn't have millions to spend, but they're pretty popular now don't you think? Or what about Justin.TV?

EXACTLY! That's why .TV and other TLD's are on the rise. People, especially the younger generation see the potential of other extensions (including .TV) and go for those instead of good old .com!

I know it is possible and you'll see it happen more and more in the future. Even if a dev gets a project started single-handedly, it doesn't mean he can't team up with other companies over time to promote the domain/idea somehow. A lot of people snapped up a lot of great .TV domains earlier this year. I am pretty sure some of them will end up as great websites with a lot of media content. I'm not sure what Portalis has in mind with their buying spree, but I hope they have a plan for their domains.

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garptrader

.COM domains often remain parked because .COM registrants have such insane price expectations. So as those using the internet become accustomed to seeing a .COM domain parking page, type-in traffic is on the decline. Type-in traffic is a one-time event which obtains perhaps 1-3%% of search volume for a keyword phrase. No long-tail search, no repeat visitors and no traffic for topic-related keywords. Development comes at a cost but the risk is typically much lower on a .Net or .TV because the acquisition price is more palatable. Time will tell how many of my .TV sites generate a meaningful ROI but I could never have even made the attempt in .COM.

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