Premium renewal name holders, will they be “bailed out” or will this be sink or swim?

snoop · 03-21-2010, 06:29 AM

The current situation is intriguing with Verisign/Enom saying nothing as yet on pre 3/19 premium names, as I stated in another thread I think there is 3 options here,

1. Do nothing for those holders
2. Off them a “conversion” deal at 1-5years revenue
3. Convert them for nothing

Whilst a lot are hoping for 3. I kind of doubt it myself, is Verisign really going to give people something for nothing? The fact that nothing has been said sure indicates this isn’t a quick and easy decision. My gut feeling is they might be deciding about how to structure something along the lines of Option 2.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/dot-tv/646063-premium-renewal-name-holders-will-they.html

Personally I think Option 1 and to a lesser extent Option 2 will mean a lot of dropping names. Over the last few days I’ve heard only one person say something positive about the old pricing structure. (Hulls I think it was).

What is interesting is the “change of tune” many domainers seem to be having regarding appropriate pricing. I think with the prices Verisign are willing to sell for it is pretty clear that people got sold some over ripe fruit in the past and not many seem to be denying that today. That is different to even a week ago when people would try to justify $1500 renewals etc as making financial sense. So in this new more realistic climate and with a lot of money going to the new premiums I think we are in store for massive drop levels under Option 1 or Option 2 above. Personally I would encourage people to drop most of what they hold (unless the renewal is really cheap for the quality of the name) and just reinvest into regular names. Do yourself a huge favour and and draw a line under those old names.

Option 3. I see as a bit of a “bail out” for domainers. I think though it is complicated by the current revenue stream those premiums are generating. I think most domainers would drop under Option 1 or 2 but most endusers would stay. So option 3 could be very expensive. It is writing off many years of work for Verisign.

So I guess the question is, for those of you who own old premium renewal names, what % do you expect to renew in the next 12 months assuming Verisign doesn’t just convert your names to regular renewal for no payment? If you think you’d accept a conversion under option 2 what sort of multiple would you consider acceptable? 1 year, 3 years etc?

antonis12 · 03-21-2010, 11:55 AM

I would also add to this post two more items:

(1) It is an unstable and unnatural situation because the premium domain holders also have leverage here which is dropping the domain and killing the renewal income stream. I don't really see how that situation can sustain itself indefinitely.

(2) I think at this stage, Verisign is half-pregnant in its move to a more standardized renewal policy which WOULD be great for the TLD. This week was a good step, but the market overall has to now digest:

(a) There are non-premium .TVs which have regular renewal fees, regardless of when they were registered
.
(b) There are premium .TVs from before March 19, 2010 which have XYZ renewal fees, all over the map

(c) There are premium .TV from after March 19 which may have an up front fee but regular renewal fees; Of these, some of these you can register today

(d) others will be auctioned at SEDO.

It is even more confusing than the past. Even the average domaineer needs a scorecard to keep it all straight and there is literally no way to know if a .TV domain falls in category A-D. For an end-user who barely understands how a .COM works, this is totally insane.

Ultimately if VSGN wants the benefit of a more sensible and market-standard renewal system, they are going to have to put a stake through the premium renewals (through some standardized approach so it really gets killed off across the board for everyone so you don't have floating out there: "renewals are $20 USD EXCEPT..."), auction off as quickly as possible whatever they have in reserve and let people get to work on growing the TLD instead of gaming the system.

It is the difference between being 'short-term greedy' (what they have been doing so far) and 'long-term greedy' (make the TLD a success which ultimately will benefit them much more)
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=646063

---------- Post added at 10:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 AM ----------

Now, to actually answer your question:

If the model is #1 or #2, I think most .tv premium portfolios will get rearranged pretty radically because anyone with the cash to otherwise renew an expensive premium portfolio can almost certainly get much much much more for their money in the secondary market right now.

RL · 03-21-2010, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by antonis12

Ultimately if VSGN wants the benefit of a more sensible and market-standard renewal system, they are going to have to put a stake through the premium renewals (through some standardized approach so it really gets killed off across the board for everyone so you don't have floating out there: "renewals are $20 USD EXCEPT..."), auction off as quickly as possible whatever they have in reserve and let people get to work on growing the TLD instead of gaming the system.

Agreed.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=646063

I don't think they have much of a choice now but to do away with the premium pricing structure all together. It has caused nothing but problems for the extension (registrars and registrants) IMHO and is long overdue.

RL

*RPK* · 03-21-2010, 01:11 PM

What I believe will happen is that you will have to renew it one more time, perhaps for a lower amount (but perhaps not, see below) and then you will get it at normal reg fee renewals.

For Example:

I have a premium name that is $1000/year
It is currently in renewal, meaning in the first 30 day stage where I can renew it with no penalty.
On Friday it showed renewal at $974
Today it is showing at $1250.00 to renew.

My guess is that if I renew it now for $1250 then it would be $30 next year and so on.

But I'm not taking that chance and still have a couple of weeks to make a decision and see what Verisign/Enom says.

It is a great name, but it is hard to justify paying $1k a year for it for life when I have other premium names that is just costing me $20/year

snoop · 03-21-2010, 03:48 PM

Just saw this from watch.tv

""So, this is good news for current customers I would also add that the current premium name customers were the first real adopters of tv premium names. They have highly sought after names. These domain names are only enhanced with today’s news."

The last two lines doesn't sound so good for those hoping for a free conversion, assuming that is the view of Verisign aswell.

.tv Premium Announcement « Watch.tv Blog

Len · 03-21-2010, 04:03 PM

I have two premium domains that are pre the current changes and are obviously registered at Enom which is currently showing their original renewal fee if I attempt to renew.

However,If I type them into the bulk checker at Name.com they both come back as taken but with a normal reg fee of $19.99

If this is correct then it would be in Enom's interest to give me the normal reg fee upon renewal or I could let them drop and attempt to catch them at the reduced rate anyway. Even if I was unsuccessful it appears (if Name.com is correct) that whoever picks them up would get them for normal reg fee so why piss off a customer.

snoop · 03-21-2010, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Len

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=646063
If this is correct then it would be in Enom's interest to give me the normal reg fee upon renewal or I could let them drop and attempt to catch them at the reduced rate anyway. Even if I was unsuccessful it appears (if Name.com is correct) that whoever picks them up would get them for normal reg fee so why piss off a customer.

I guess the issue is twofold,

-You might not drop
-If you drop they can sell the name at a premium price (with a $20 renewal) or maybe they could do a deal with an auction house for dropping names.

finster · 03-21-2010, 04:22 PM

Do you own even a single premium name snoop? If not I simply can't understand why it is you care so much.

antonis12 · 03-21-2010, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by snoop

I guess the issue is twofold,

-You might not drop
-If you drop they can sell the name at a premium price (with a $20 renewal) or maybe they could do a deal with an auction house for dropping names.

I think market has spoken regarding the second point.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=646063

As of today, there are thousands upon thousands of premiums that used to be 500-10,000 USD *per year* that are sitting at enom.tv with one time fees of a couple hundred dollars and are not being registered.

So that should tell VSGN all they need to know about their likely pricing power at auction for anything other than some ultra super duper extra plus plus premiums (e.g. business.tv).

Today there is far more supply than demand of a medium to upper medium grade (ex)-premiums.

snoop · 03-21-2010, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by finster

Do you own even a single premium name snoop? If not I simply can't understand why it is you care so much.

Play the broken record........

---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 PM ----------

Originally Posted by antonis12

So that should tell VSGN all they need to know about their likely pricing power at auction for anything other than some ultra super duper extra plus plus premiums (e.g. business.tv).

Today there is far more supply than demand of a medium to upper medium grade (ex)-premiums.

Agree, sending to auction is probably still alot better than doing a free conversion though in terms of revenue.

antonis12 · 03-21-2010, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by snoop

Play the broken record........

While occasionally frustrating, I think Snoop has been constructive and intellectually consistent.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=646063

And his point of view has taken into account the recent changes in a thoughtful manner. Which would not be the case if he was just flaming.

Can't see how we can complain...

Len · 03-21-2010, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by snoop

I guess the issue is twofold,
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=646063

-You might not drop
-If you drop they can sell the name at a premium price (with a $20 renewal) or maybe they could do a deal with an auction house for dropping names.

I hear what you are saying but looking at what has happened to the premium pricing I would have to be confident that even if they stayed at premium prices they would be nowhere near their current price.

In this case, and others are in the same position, surely the opportunity to purchase at a one off lesser premium price and then revert to normal reg fee should be given to the current owner prior to expiration.

This IMO would be the only sensible way to do it as this would be the exact same scenario should the current registrant not renew and it be picked up by someone else.

MillersCrossing · 03-21-2010, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by antonis12

while occasionally frustrating, i think snoop has been constructive and intellectually consistent.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=646063

And his point of view has taken into account the recent changes in a thoughtful manner. Which would not be the case if he was just flaming.

Can't see how we can complain...

agree

freedom30 · 03-21-2010, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by antonis12

While occasionally frustrating, I think Snoop has been constructive and intellectually consistent.

And his point of view has taken into account the recent changes in a thoughtful manner. Which would not be the case if he was just flaming.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=646063

Can't see how we can complain...

Amen to that, too...

A question of balance...like the Moody Blues album...

snoop · 03-21-2010, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Len

I hear what you are saying but looking at what has happened to the premium pricing I would have to be confident that even if they stayed at premium prices they would be nowhere near their current price.

In this case, and others are in the same position, surely the opportunity to purchase at a one off lesser premium price and then revert to normal reg fee should be given to the current owner prior to expiration.

Here is a bit of a comparison. Take the situation in the domain world around 1999, most registrars charged $35/yr such as netsol. Then alog comes the like of Godaddy who charges $9. Do you see netsol reducing their prices, saying to old customers, "here's a nice little discount, the real market price is $9, so we can't charge you $35 any more"?

It is much the same thing here, those endusers of premium names aren't going to be very price sensitive. It is a revenue stream of some value because they are paying $250, $500 per year etc. Esssentially many multiples of the "market rate". Those customers are gold. It is better to lose customers than offer a discount in that situation.

Personally if I were verisign I would be offering some kind of deal but probably not making it well known, ie make it so the domainers find out but maybe not the people with just one name, ie try to target the people very likely to drop. Anyway that is just speculation.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=646063

Originally Posted by Len

This IMO would be the only sensible way to do it as this would be the exact same scenario should the current registrant not renew and it be picked up by someone else.

As I see it some will continue to renew so it won't be that "exact same scenario" alot of the time. If 50% drop and 50% renew then you are probably best off not offering a deal.

MillersCrossing · 03-21-2010, 08:48 PM

Support Marijuana Policy Reform in Washington State
Initiative 1068 eliminates all criminal penalties for adults. VOLUNTEER or DONATE today!
Sensible Washington

From Finsters signature. Just wanted to add my vote! And not just Washington State!!

freedom30 · 03-21-2010, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by MillersCrossing

Support Marijuana Policy Reform in Washington State
Initiative 1068 eliminates all criminal penalties for adults. VOLUNTEER or DONATE today!
Sensible Washington

From Finsters signature. Just wanted to add my vote! And not just Washington State!!

Let's put it this way...
Considering the medical advantages of the herb and the perfect item to tax, it would go a long way to easing the burden of this albatross health care package. It is a medical benefit and helps to cut into the trillion dollar deficit. A double winner!
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=646063

Off topic...I will say no more on subject!

03-21-2010, 06:29 AM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
snoop New User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,986	Premium renewal name holders, will they be “bailed out” or will this be sink or swim? The current situation is intriguing with Verisign/Enom saying nothing as yet on pre 3/19 premium names, as I stated in another thread I think there is 3 options here, 1. Do nothing for those holders 2. Off them a “conversion” deal at 1-5years revenue 3. Convert them for nothing Whilst a lot are hoping for 3. I kind of doubt it myself, is Verisign really going to give people something for nothing? The fact that nothing has been said sure indicates this isn’t a quick and easy decision. My gut feeling is they might be deciding about how to structure something along the lines of Option 2. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/dot-tv/646063-premium-renewal-name-holders-will-they.html Personally I think Option 1 and to a lesser extent Option 2 will mean a lot of dropping names. Over the last few days I’ve heard only one person say something positive about the old pricing structure. (Hulls I think it was). What is interesting is the “change of tune” many domainers seem to be having regarding appropriate pricing. I think with the prices Verisign are willing to sell for it is pretty clear that people got sold some over ripe fruit in the past and not many seem to be denying that today. That is different to even a week ago when people would try to justify $1500 renewals etc as making financial sense. So in this new more realistic climate and with a lot of money going to the new premiums I think we are in store for massive drop levels under Option 1 or Option 2 above. Personally I would encourage people to drop most of what they hold (unless the renewal is really cheap for the quality of the name) and just reinvest into regular names. Do yourself a huge favour and and draw a line under those old names. Option 3. I see as a bit of a “bail out” for domainers. I think though it is complicated by the current revenue stream those premiums are generating. I think most domainers would drop under Option 1 or 2 but most endusers would stay. So option 3 could be very expensive. It is writing off many years of work for Verisign. So I guess the question is, for those of you who own old premium renewal names, what % do you expect to renew in the next 12 months assuming Verisign doesn’t just convert your names to regular renewal for no payment? If you think you’d accept a conversion under option 2 what sort of multiple would you consider acceptable? 1 year, 3 years etc? Last edited by snoop; 03-21-2010 at 06:35 AM.

03-21-2010, 11:55 AM	#2 (permalink)
antonis12 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,007	I would also add to this post two more items: (1) It is an unstable and unnatural situation because the premium domain holders also have leverage here which is dropping the domain and killing the renewal income stream. I don't really see how that situation can sustain itself indefinitely. (2) I think at this stage, Verisign is half-pregnant in its move to a more standardized renewal policy which WOULD be great for the TLD. This week was a good step, but the market overall has to now digest: (a) There are non-premium .TVs which have regular renewal fees, regardless of when they were registered . (b) There are premium .TVs from before March 19, 2010 which have XYZ renewal fees, all over the map (c) There are premium .TV from after March 19 which may have an up front fee but regular renewal fees; Of these, some of these you can register today (d) others will be auctioned at SEDO. It is even more confusing than the past. Even the average domaineer needs a scorecard to keep it all straight and there is literally no way to know if a .TV domain falls in category A-D. For an end-user who barely understands how a .COM works, this is totally insane. Ultimately if VSGN wants the benefit of a more sensible and market-standard renewal system, they are going to have to put a stake through the premium renewals (through some standardized approach so it really gets killed off across the board for everyone so you don't have floating out there: "renewals are $20 USD EXCEPT..."), auction off as quickly as possible whatever they have in reserve and let people get to work on growing the TLD instead of gaming the system. It is the difference between being 'short-term greedy' (what they have been doing so far) and 'long-term greedy' (make the TLD a success which ultimately will benefit them much more) ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=646063 ---------- Post added at 10:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 AM ---------- Now, to actually answer your question: If the model is #1 or #2, I think most .tv premium portfolios will get rearranged pretty radically because anyone with the cash to otherwise renew an expensive premium portfolio can almost certainly get much much much more for their money in the secondary market right now. __________________ www.Online.tv

03-21-2010, 04:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
finster Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,630	Do you own even a single premium name snoop? If not I simply can't understand why it is you care so much. __________________ ...believe me when I say life and death are always on the line...

03-21-2010, 01:11 PM	#4 (permalink)
RPK SportsFan.me Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Israel Posts: 3,597 Follow @sportsfanme	What I believe will happen is that you will have to renew it one more time, perhaps for a lower amount (but perhaps not, see below) and then you will get it at normal reg fee renewals. For Example: I have a premium name that is $1000/year It is currently in renewal, meaning in the first 30 day stage where I can renew it with no penalty. On Friday it showed renewal at $974 Today it is showing at $1250.00 to renew. My guess is that if I renew it now for $1250 then it would be $30 next year and so on. But I'm not taking that chance and still have a couple of weeks to make a decision and see what Verisign/Enom says. It is a great name, but it is hard to justify paying $1k a year for it for life when I have other premium names that is just costing me $20/year

03-21-2010, 03:48 PM	THREAD STARTER #5 (permalink)
snoop New User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,986	Just saw this from watch.tv ""So, this is good news for current customers I would also add that the current premium name customers were the first real adopters of tv premium names. They have highly sought after names. These domain names are only enhanced with today’s news." The last two lines doesn't sound so good for those hoping for a free conversion, assuming that is the view of Verisign aswell. .tv Premium Announcement « Watch.tv Blog

03-21-2010, 04:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
Len dot TV'er Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Central Ontario, Canada Posts: 3,645	I have two premium domains that are pre the current changes and are obviously registered at Enom which is currently showing their original renewal fee if I attempt to renew. However,If I type them into the bulk checker at Name.com they both come back as taken but with a normal reg fee of $19.99 If this is correct then it would be in Enom's interest to give me the normal reg fee upon renewal or I could let them drop and attempt to catch them at the reduced rate anyway. Even if I was unsuccessful it appears (if Name.com is correct) that whoever picks them up would get them for normal reg fee so why piss off a customer.

03-21-2010, 08:48 PM	#16 (permalink)
MillersCrossing Account Closed Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,742	Support Marijuana Policy Reform in Washington State Initiative 1068 eliminates all criminal penalties for adults. VOLUNTEER or DONATE today! Sensible Washington From Finsters signature. Just wanted to add my vote! And not just Washington State!!

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