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| Dot TV Dedicated discussion forum for the .TV top level domain. |
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03-10-2010, 04:37 AM
| THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink) |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,944
    | The moment of failure for .TV - or was it? There was, supposedly, a defining moment when .Tv names went from the status of ‘fighting the recession’ to ‘victim of the recession’. That moment was the Rick Latona auction of June 2009. I remember looking at the names in auction at the time and thinking that most were of incredibly poor quality and nearly all were overpriced. The list, from the time, with prices, is available at Domainer Resource: RickLatona.com - ccTLD Extended Auction As one of those names from the auction drops tomorrow, Amsterdam.tv (premium $1500) I thought I would have a quick look at what happend to the other names that were on auction. Surely, if these names were that good, they would still all be taken in 2010. Well, here are the results There were 146 .TV names in the auction 42 of those names were premium 104 were standard regs. Today, only 10 of the 42 premiums are still taken: Czech.tv 200 prem Europe.tv 8500 Italy.tv 750 Moscow.tv 500 Paraguay.tv 250 printers.tv 500 Races.tv 300 Spain.tv 12749 Sweden.tv 600 Thailand.tv 1000 The remainder, having been dropped, are available from enom: Amsterdam.tv 1500 prem apparel.tv 250 appliances.tv 250 author.tv 250 Baking.tv 2000 Classic.tv 5000 Classics.tv 5000 closeout.tv 250 collectibles.tv 250 contests.tv 250 crafts.tv 500 desktops.tv 250 Forecast.tv 250 franchises.tv 250 Germany.tv 25000 giftshop.tv 500 Help.tv 25000 Holistic.tv 500 Home.tv 50000 inventions.tv 500 laptops.tv 250 Lawyers.tv 7500 monitors.tv 250 opportunity.tv 250 Racing.tv 5000 Sales.tv 5000 Satellite.tv 10000 Scooter.tv 500 Sushi.tv 500 today.tv 5000 Traffic.tv 10000 wholesale.tv 250 Of the standard reg names, of which there were 104, only 65 are still taken, while some 39 names have been dropped altogether and NOT picked up. I won’t list the 65 names, but here are the 39 names that have been dropped, and are available right now. I doubt, even though I have printed the names, there will be a big rush to pick them up (even when we live in an age of the $12.99 reg): BalearicIsland.tv bassproshop.tv BedAndBath.tv BigAndTall.tv BookDeal.tv BookReviews.tv Bosnian.tv BreakDancers.tv camerashop.tv ChildrenShop.tv CollegeTour.tv CommerceAdNetwork.tv ComputerCourse.tv ComputerDeal.tv Depotverwahrung.tv etailers.tv FoodStore.tv FurnitureShop.tv GiftStores.tv golfproshop.tv GoodDeal.tv GourmetShop.tv HardwareStore.tv jewelryshop.tv JewelryShow.tv judaicashop.tv KitchenTools.tv LearnForex.tv OfficeProducts.tv PoolTable.tv RetailOutlets.tv schoolsupply.tv SoftwareShop.tv StudentShop.tv TeamShop.tv ToysAndGames.tv ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/dot-tv/644068-the-moment-of-failure-for-tv.html TravelTours.tv VideoContent.tv VideoGameStore.tv I have my own ideas and conclusions that can be made from this information: 1 In the main, the premium market is dead to all but the best names. Let this be a warning to all newbies. 2 Much of the talk of the failure of .TV is based on an auction of names that were either premium names, overpriced, or not even worth renewing. 3. Quality standard reg names ARE still selling, being renewed, and highly coveted.
__________________ blah blah blah
Last edited by Jimbojimbo; 03-10-2010 at 06:06 AM.
Reason: mistake on one bit of info
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03-10-2010, 06:04 AM
| THREAD STARTER #4 (permalink) | ||||
| Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,944
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I will amend the post.
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03-10-2010, 02:28 PM
| #6 (permalink) | ||||
| Senior Member  Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Multiverse
Posts: 1,201
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Jimbo, I appreciate how much work you put into your posts, and this is not a direct attack on you or your post, but something very IMPORTANT to keep in mind is that not every premium .TV in that auction was in the hands of domainers/endusers. Many were plucked directly from the unsold .TV premium list and offered up via auction at higher pricepoints with discounted renewals. Regarding the state of the premium .TV marketplace, I don't believe the market is "dead" for developers/end-users... but most people agree that .TV premiums are not domainer-friendly... so in that respect, the market is "dead". But as evidenced by recent premium purchases, it comes down to pricing. On Equity's blog, he posted that a huge geo .TV portfolio was sold by a former NP member and I believe many of those names were premium priced. So there is activity in the premium space, both direct via ENOM and in the aftermarket. It is my belief that the overall economy is going to get worse before it gets better (and it ain't bad yet) and there will be more domain deals on the horizon for those who are holding cash and waiting to pull the trigger. Over the last 2 years, I sent out many emails to end-user domain owners, who refused to sell back then, but are now ready to talk. Plus, we have to deal with the new TLDs that are lining up that cost roughly $300K+ to apply/setup (w/ 7fig cash reserves if an auction takes place), compare that price (owning your own TLD) versus buying a category killer .com domain and you can see why some of the big domain industry players/investors are in a holding pattern waiting for ICANN to make a decision. Lots of money that could flow into the aftermarket is "on hold" right now. All these factors are driving domain prices down and whether any domainer wants to believe it or not, these new TLDs will pull money into the registries' pockets and away from the aftermarket. With domain parking almost flatlined for many, and minisites not performing up to expectations (or getting pulled from search engines), many domainers are hoping to develop or simply looking to sell. I see some players flipping great names just to stay in business OR in an effort to build up cash reserves to go on a buying spree as the aftermarket hits bottom... knowing when to sell/buy is an art form. I've seen it happen before when the bubble burst, and it will happen again... in fact it is happening now. But to keep all this relevant to .TV, naysayers VS cheerleaders... both sides of the fight are right. Since everyone measures success differently, and each one of us will appraise domains differently... for some people the .TV aftermarket is dead while for others, myself included, I believe it is thriving and that the future has plenty of upside. All we need is some "news" to generate more activity/interest...  ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644068 . | ||||
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03-10-2010, 05:40 PM
| #8 (permalink) | ||||
| Miembro Especial  Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Debunking ccTLD
Posts: 6,801
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03-10-2010, 06:04 PM
| #9 (permalink) | ||||||||
| New User Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,072
| I think the auction was a bit of a reality pill for some people. The point at which they realised their premium were probably worthless or at best worth a fraction of the last renewal fee paid. It was one of those "the curtain has been raised and it isn't pretty" moments. Let's take a look at the thread, http://www.namepros.com/dot-tv/58343...ing-point.html You can see that views were mixed on the auction, many were expecting a bad result though.
That doesn't mean the issue is pricing though because most of the names couldn't sell for 2 cents. They are overpriced at any level. The issue is quality, and that stems from the extension, renewal fees, and all that. The number of names actually worth anything in .tv is very low, that is the issue. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644068 ---------- Post added at 05:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:00 PM ----------
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03-10-2010, 09:49 PM
| #12 (permalink) | ||||
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03-10-2010, 09:50 PM
| #13 (permalink) | ||||||||
| Senior Member  Join Date: Jul 2005
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????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644068 ---------- Post added at 08:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 PM ----------
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03-10-2010, 10:06 PM
| #15 (permalink) | ||||
| Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005
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listen, my philosophy is that there is one life to live. each of us has to find oiur own purposes for our lives - a neverending effort. i think success as finding and following a path with heart, a way that even if i am the only one who believes in it, satisfies my soul. perhaps there are those for whom money alone does this - more power to them. but i wont let those few (or many) dictate to me what success should mean to me. and thats my bottom line.
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Last edited by finster; 03-10-2010 at 10:11 PM.
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03-10-2010, 10:10 PM
| #16 (permalink) | ||||
| New User Join Date: Dec 2004
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03-10-2010, 10:13 PM
| #17 (permalink) | ||||
| Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005
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03-10-2010, 10:14 PM
| #18 (permalink) | ||||
| New User Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,072
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????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644068 If you go to your accountant and tell him you run a venture which makes no money, and you have no interest in making money, he'll pretty quickly tell you that is not a business. Its probably a hobby, charity, not for profit etc. | ||||
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03-10-2010, 10:19 PM
| #19 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,593
| business is anything you make it. i dont have to accept anyones definition of what it means or why it exists. i've seen a lot of people do terrible things only in order to make a profit. does that make them "successful"? you can say yes but i have my doubts. anyway, this argument could go on and on and i'm actually pretty busy trying to find more opportunities to throw my good money after bad.  g'night.
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03-10-2010, 10:25 PM
| #20 (permalink) | ||||||||
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03-10-2010, 11:33 PM
| #21 (permalink) | ||||
| Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Multiverse
Posts: 1,201
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Millers...whether you're posting as your alter ego "SpiderSpider" or as yourself, your viewpoint means NOTHING to me. Period. You enjoy attacking me personally (under another name) though I don't know you personally and have never wished you any ill-will. http://www.namepros.com/636287-telef...ml#post3725273 http://www.namepros.com/636287-telef...ml#post3725290 Perhaps you didn't realize that when you asked to get reinstated on this site that they would merge your posts, huh? You showed a different side to your personality throughout your posts and I lost all respect for you. If you wish to spend your time being petty/bitter and attacking me, so be it, but be sure to send me a list of all your personas so I can put them all on ignore. I suggest you put me on ignore too. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644068 to others: Even in this market, while people are losing money, others are making it. Some are conserving cash, others are on buying sprees. People can complain all they want, post all the examples they want to support their beliefs, but what difference does it make in the end? Believe what you want to believe. If one person buys ups GEO .TVs, while another person dumps his GEO .TVs - is that an indicator that you should be buying? or selling? Be your own judge and make your own decision. Don't be a sheep. Regarding measuring success in different ways... it's sad that some people have no clue what it means. If your goal is to make more money today than you made yesterday and you succeeded, good for you. What if your goal was too make just enough money to survive another day? To save your house from foreclosure? To buy your 1st house? To buy your 3rd house? To spend more time with family? To live to see just one more sunrise? Some domainers measure success if they can flip a domain for $4,000 - while others only feel they've succeeded if they sell a name for 7 figures. For anyone dumping .TV domains, pm me with your lists and prices. If you believe the sky is falling and want to exit, I'm sure you'll be able to get your reg fees back for some of them. For those looking for some buzz surrounding .TV, the wait is almost over (whether it not sinks or swims, time will tell.)... just a few more days/weeks. As for me, with new .TV regs at $15, new .coms currently at $5, and the aftermarket in a slump... I'm going to keep buying names to develop. If you believe the domain market is alive or dead... guess what, you're right! Congratulations. Good luck to everyone... and good night. . | ||||
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03-11-2010, 04:52 AM
| #23 (permalink) | ||||
| Senior Member  Join Date: May 2007 Location: Windy City
Posts: 2,208
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Thank you Mr Rhee (Finny as well!) for your analyses - those that choose to have tunnel vision and those who expand their horizons; those who invest and speculate and those who criticize and disdain those who do, all have their own personal reasons for their decisions. You and finster nail it pretty good...everyone has differing reasons for doing what they do and this black/white without any shades of grey doesn't fit in the equation but it's good enough for them, I guess, so I'll leave them with their own opinions. Again, as always, I welcome your thoughts on this forum and admire your spirit here as you give pause for many to actually think of the whys and wherefores of investment and business. five fast pennies or one slow nickel...vive la différence! To each their own.
Last edited by freedom30; 03-11-2010 at 05:07 AM.
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03-11-2010, 07:46 AM
| #24 (permalink) |
| SportsFan.me   Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Israel
Posts: 3,589
| All the names listed below were names I owned and let drop. The reason being for a couple of reasons. The first is because the majority of them were owned by the company I founded, Qoof.com. One of my earlier ideas for the company was to create these sites individually using our technology. In the process we made more than $50,000 profit including the sale of Televisions.tv for $25k. We made a decision about two years ago not to develop the .tv names as we needed to focus on our core technology, but we decided to renew a bunch of them since we did so well in the past with them. When it came time to renew them this year with the economy turning the way it was and with overall .tv sales down we decided to let them go since they were no longer an asset to the company and we are not in the domain selling business. I think at one point between my company and my personal hold of .tv names we owned close to 900 of them. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644068 From a personal perspective I did very nicely as well in profit (I sold Paraguay.tv to the current owner) and still hold on to about 50 .tv's which is a more manageable number as an investment, but my main investment is in my company and that is why I have been a lot less active. I still thing there is great potential with the extension and that is why I am still holding on to a nice portfolio including laptops.tv, smartphones.tv, closeouts.tv, Debates.tv,CookingNetwork.tv,SportsCar.tv,outlets. tv,pranks.tv to name a few. I am still willing to sell these names, but am not in a rush and have turned down tons of low ball offers. apparel.tv 250 appliances.tv 250 author.tv 250 - still own authors.tv Baking.tv 2000 closeout.tv 250 - still own closeouts.tv at reg fee collectibles.tv 250 contests.tv 250 crafts.tv 500 desktops.tv 250 Forecast.tv 250 franchises.tv 250 Germany.tv 25000 giftshop.tv 500 Holistic.tv 500 inventions.tv 500 laptops.tv 250 - still own monitors.tv 250 opportunity.tv 250 Scooter.tv 500 wholesale.tv 250 bassproshop.tv BedAndBath.tv BigAndTall.tv BookDeal.tv BookReviews.tv BreakDancers.tv camerashop.tv ChildrenShop.tv CollegeTour.tv CommerceAdNetwork.tv ComputerCourse.tv ComputerDeal.tv etailers.tv FoodStore.tv FurnitureShop.tv GiftStores.tv golfproshop.tv GoodDeal.tv GourmetShop.tv HardwareStore.tv jewelryshop.tv JewelryShow.tv judaicashop.tv KitchenTools.tv LearnForex.tv OfficeProducts.tv PoolTable.tv RetailOutlets.tv schoolsupply.tv SoftwareShop.tv StudentShop.tv TeamShop.tv ToysAndGames.tv TravelTours.tv VideoGameStore.tv |
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03-11-2010, 08:10 AM
| #25 (permalink) |
| Account Suspended  Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,742
| Now back to the OP's comments. For me, the end to the irrational exuberance of .tv came in two distinct phases. 1. Seeing RL cash out on all his premium domains. Alarm bells started to ring. RL is someone that I have come to learn is in the top league as far as both domaining and development is concerned. Why was he getting out of an extension if the only way was up? Was he CALLING the market?? Was he heading towards the EXIT door? I tried every which way to rationalise his departure from .tv (in the main...he could still own a small portfolio) but I was left with a nagging unease as to what I was witnissing. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644068 2. That Latona auction. It proved that no matter how low you go with the premiums, the general domaining population are not going to touch .tvs. That was the Wizard of Oz moment when Toto pulled back the curtains ( a bit like Snoops way of putting it). I suddenly realised that all these valuations that had been flying around about .tv and in particular geo.tv......were valuations brought about by never stepping out of the comfort zone of the .tv forum and sticking only with like minded people who were heavily invested in .tv. That was enough. If I couldnt sell Thailand for $12k at an auction full of domainers that had upto date made up 90% of my .tv sales, I knew I was in trouble. I sold both my premium geos I had left for bargain basement prices at the time and today, consider myself lucky to having got what i got. But I am very glad that one of the names went to a very good frind of mine -who throughout all his time on the .tv subforum was as honest a character and as straight up an indidvidual as you could find - especialy in the domainer community - RONNIE MCKENNA. He is in absolutely no rush to sell the name and has so many projects going on at the same time that I am not sure he even remembers he own the name! Sure enough, within a very short space of time following the auction, .tv had run itself off a cliff. Some say it has to do with the huge recession, my personal opinion is, that the recession only speeded up the inevitable - domainers do not care for .tv and if you are a domainer , then you are in the domaining business - and starting out with 90% of potential customers not interetested in what you have to offer, no matter how good the genric name - if it ends in .tv - conversation over - then that is an enormous handicap. Rather go for extensions that dont turn away 90% of domainers before you even have a chance to explain the extension to them. THIS IS MY HONEST EVALUATION OF .TV. I AM NOT LOOKING TO BASH THE EXTENSION.I AM CALLING A SPADE A SPADE. Take it or leave it.
Last edited by MillersCrossing; 03-18-2010 at 10:49 AM.
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