Blastoff

I see these questions frequently on the Dot TV forum, "when will my .TV domain be equal in value to a .com domain" or "when will the .TV market take off?"

The answer is clear, when .TV owners start developing numerous websites that rival .com sites in quality and creativity, i.e., facebook, flickr, twitter, etc.

Furthermore, when one .TV site gets as much traffic as flickr, twitter and ebay, etc. will you start to see the .TV domains really increase in value.

Does any agree, disagree or have a comment?

shane mac

Does anyone have an answer as to why they are so pricey and thier uses...

localexperts

You will need more than one high traffic, developed DOT TV, but I agree alot more development is needed forquality DOT TV domains.

MillersCrossing

Alternatively,you could reg better .tv names... Domain Suggestions Deleted-ADULT NAMES NOT ALLOWED OUT OF THE ADULT SECION, and airbags wont cut it...
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/dot-tv/593446-the-future-of-tv.html

I would also ask you to help me find the " frequent" questions "when will my .tv be equal in value" to a dot com domain".

In fact forget the "frequency", just show me one time when someone has ever made that statement...

stutter

you forgot to add.. Thanks for your post and we appreciate you taking time to be involved in this .tv discussion.


Man you guys need a holiday or a shag.. so much pent up animosity to posters making an argument..


---------- Post added at 05:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------


I agree to a certain extent. We need a lot of quality sites to gain mass public appeal.
I think Justin.tv is the current leader in making .tv cool and brandable.

It will come in time.

MicroGuy

IMO

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MillersCrossing

perhaps i need a shag, (british slang)and perhaps you need to stick to one user name ...do u really think u r kidding anyone...boy, do i need to choose more carefully

stutter

Huh? I have no clue what you are referring to.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=593446

Being British is a bad thing?

Anyway.. lets not take over the thread with childish banter. The OP made some valid points and he has the right to a proper answer.. that is all I am saying here.

Blastoff

Wow, MillersCrossing, are you the Dot TV cyber-bully?? If you don't like the topic, just leave this particular discussion. It's a Simple thing to do. Furthermore, the Dot TV domains you listed above are domains I let expire, the 37 other Dot TV domains I own are of much higher caliber.

If you haven't heard members here talk about when will their Dot TV domains increase in value than you must not be reading the same forum I have for the past 3 or so years.

MillersCrossing

Hey Blastoff,

Not a cyber bully, I'm sorry if it came across that way.

And I have been reading the same forum. My only issue was with what I felt were loaded words "people asking when will .tv be equal in value to .com"

In that regard, no one has stated that - no one.... anyone who believes that needs their head examining

What many people have been talking about, is the future of .tv and whether it is a wise investment, whether the value has been increasing or decreasing...THE JURY IS OUT ON THAT ..for sure...

Many say "dump .tv" & quite a few say "hold" or even "build during this recession "
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=593446

And it was a good move that you did to drop those names I mentioned ....especially as names of very high quality (by comparison)are being dropped...

It is fair to say that many investors in .tv are feeling the pressure, but I also think many .com owners are feeling it too. THe same with .net. Snoop sold a keyword .net at a huge loss for chump change recently.....I am sure he is not alone...

benzdorf

The Future Is Now !

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Bestone

TV is the best medium to promote the culture of your country.So the owner of the TV must give emphasis for the development of the TV domain.The work done on TV domain is not as much give satisfactory results.So the owner of the TV must focus on some creative work also.As we all know that in future only ones can survive who has its own worth.

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poiuytrewq

IMO - and I do seem to have a reasonably good domaining nose - Dot tv is going nowhere in the foreseeable future and has peaked for the moment I would say. My advice to anyone is don't bother buying any and reappraise the situation in 6 months.

I have 15-20 exceptional one worders but I am not interested in doing anything with them and have just forgotten about them. Once every few months I pop in here and check out the sales figures on Development.tv. It takes very little time to realize nothing significant is happening with dot tv domains rarely making 4 figs. And with the real top-notch, prime keyword names maxing out at around 4-5k, well then you know it's as dead as a dodo and it's time to pack up and go home.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=593446

Anyone new to .tv looking at this extension as offering future potential, I would seriously suggest you reevaluate your priorities. Forget dot tv and move on with your lives IMO.

Will pop back in a few months to see if things have picked up.

All the best.

MrRhee

I disagree with most of your post, if not all of it.

If you want to judge the entire extension based upon your own success/failure, then so be it. But it is strange for me to read posts like yours that make blanket statements that cover everyone or an entire TLD based on one's own experiences. Perhaps your portfolio is "dead as a dodo"..., perhaps there is "nothing significant" happening in your world when it comes to .TV, but that's your own experience. I know nothing about your "domaining nose" but my experience with .TV differs greatly with yours.

If anyone new is looking to .TV, then I will say to them what applies across the board with any business venture or investment... "only invest what you can afford"... and most importantly:
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=593446

BEFORE YOU INVEST, INVESTIGATE.

In my own opinion and based on my own experience, .TV has legs, there are companies adopting it, great keywords are coveted by many, and users are typing it in and end-users are willing to pay. If you're only in this game to buy to resell, then do your own due diligence, only target the best keywords, and make your own decisions. There are many private deals going on, behind the scenes, and the only way to know how much potential .TV has is by keeping your finger on the pulse... and watching public sales figures is not going to give you the whole picture. i.e. Recently I was pursuing a generic .TV priced at mid-5 figures and during the negotiation process I lost the name to another buyer who made a better offer. Make no mistake, the domain sold for mid-5 and this deal will always be private and took place less than 60 days ago. I will always regret not securing the deal, but I was in the midst of closing on another big .TV deal. I will always look at that other name as the "one that got away". I would've loved to own and develop that domain. The mid-5 figure pricepoint was win/win for both seller & buyer and not even a factor. Damn great domain, damn great price.

There is a very active .TV aftermarket that isn't a domainer-to-domainer market... end users are buying (especially from Europe & Asia based on my personal experiences).

But never forget: buying domains to resell is a dangerous, expensive, risky, game... an uphill battle... I don't recommend it for everyone. But it can also be very exciting and lucrative.. if you learn from others mistakes.

Good luck.

stutter

I agree Mr Rhee. There seems to be so many opinions only looked at on a personal level. It comes down to the person also. If you are a negative person, you will attract negativity and miss out what others will gain from.

Many people judge the market on their "super names" not getting any offers, but maybe they are not as good as they think or they are not marketing them in the right areas.

Its all relevant..

I think .tv is going well on the development side, many great sites are being featured on techcrunch and mashable and getting a great audience..
.tv is always going to be a tv / video extension and that is a smaller market than the .com market. The .com covers everything and the .tv covers a small niche IMO..
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=593446

If you have a .tv that makes sense, it will probably sell, if you have ahot.tv, dailyaccounting.tv or printercartridges.tv you might find it harder to unload... whereas the .com would be worth a few bucks.

finster

Its only going to get worse. Might as well sell your one-worders for whatever you can get now before they lose more value. Might not even be able to get xx for them soon.

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snoop

He is simply basing his opinion on sales data (or lack of it). Most domainers here have lost the bulk of the money they put into .tv, it has done alot worse than mainstream extensions. No doubt there is a reasonable amount of enduser usage that will sustain some level of activity and that has been the case for a decade or more, but it does not translate into strong resale values. The extension is in a niche market and renewal costs are prohibitive, those two factors aren't ever likely to change.

garptrader

As long as you stay away from premium renewals I believe the criticism of the extension is overdone. True .TV is not .COM but the acquisition cost of the .COM in many cases is at least as cost prohibitive as some premium .TV domains. The SEO benefits are not as strong and you don't get the type-in traffic but you can still get a very brandable domain at an affordable price (non-premium renewals).

How many repeat visitors will a parked .COM receive? My six-week old website Rutinas.tv (reg fee) already has someone in a central Mexican city who has visited seven times spending an average of nearly 17 minutes each visit. Another in a Southern California town has visited five times spending more than five minutes each visit. Another in northern Illinois only visited once but spent nearly an hour visiting nearly every page on the site. In Maracaibo, Venezuela five repeat visitors with an average visit exceeding ten minutes. A town in central Chile - two repeat visitors spending nearly 13 minutes per visit. Yes, these are outliers but this .TV site is less than two months old and I am not skilled at development. But you could never acquire that sort of loyalty with a parked .COM.

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snoop

I don't think this is really true, the popular search term .tv's that do not have premium renewals are in the minority and most speculators are not holding these types of names. Most are holding low quality regular reg fee names that are likely worth nothing and/or premium names that are popular terms but because of the reg fees are still worth nothing.

You say "the acquisition cost of the .COM in many cases is at least as cost prohibitive as some premium .TV domains" but generally the comparison is between something that is an expense and something that is an asset. Premium .tv's generally have zero capital value. Of course there is exceptinal cases and these are far better bets.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=593446

Basically with these premium names you are renting. If you hope to resell the hope is that it will gain value to the extent that the renewals becomes cheap, that is very unlikely. Basically people are trying to resell a lease. If you went to the average accountant and told him how these names worked they'd probably tell these are expenses, not assets.

Assuming the premium .com is bought at market value that is an asset, it is something that can resold in the future, the value may go down or it may go up but it will at least be an asset. Such names start from about $50, the cost isn't prohibitive, the top of the market is prohibitive, but let's not label the whole market by the top end price, at the end of the day values being strong is a good thing not a bad thing. But I think some people like to have it both ways, they claims .com prices being high is a bad thing, then they complain about .tv prices being low. Be careful what you wish for, if you think .tv is good because prices are low that is probably what you'll get when you try to sell.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=593446

Very few, how many repeat visitors will a parked .tv get? At the end of the day it is a pointless debate, yes very few people will return to a parked page. Probably very few people will return to a vacant shop with billboards out the front aswell.

At the end of the day though you can't pay the bills with repeat visitors, let's talk $$$. Having said that it is the same old debate, a website can make money regardless of extension. It doesn't neccessarily say anything for the value of the name.

That isn't saying much. The idea of a parked domain is not to "acquire loyalty". It is to cash on those visitors, to send them somewhere else and take a feee for doing it.

Think of it like a shop where every visitor through the door gets the lousiest experience ever, you don't even a have a product in your shop and has no staff, just a crappy sign written in texta telling people the address of a business down the road who pays you a fee for every referral. Your total expenses are $8 per year and you've never spent anything on making the shop look good. The last time you even visited the shop was 2004, yet every day a steady stream of visitors come to this empty shop wanting to buy stuff.

Any business that can run like that is worth alot of money, it is largely bullet proof and has huge potential for improvement. Basically it couldn't be run any worse no matter how hard you tried. That is a descrption of something that is more of an "investment" than a "business" people will want to buy a shop like that. They won't price it in the same way as something that needs hard work to make money.

garptrader

I will agree that it is nice to have a .COM with thousands of monthly visitors where you don't have to do anything except renew the domain every year. But in 2009 those domains are very hard to acquire at reg fee or even XXX.

It is also true that buying a non .COM domain for resale is riskier. SEDO reports that approx. half of sales are .COM with all other extensions sharing the remaining sales. I don't recall .TV even appearing on the 2008 report likely because the percentage of .TV sales is relatively small.

Now it is true that domainers have a bad habit of acquiring poor-quality domains in all extensions. Hopefully the .TV domains I have acquired are better than the average reg fee .TV (Spanish domains, my focus, have largely escaped premium pricing).

Yes, monetization via website development is a tremendous amount of work compared to parking a .COM with thousands of visitors. But what happens to a stock with a trend of declining earnings? Parking revenues are down as payouts have been on the decline for some time. I have even read comments that type-in traffic is on the decline perhaps because users are so accustomed to seeing nothing but parking pages when they use direct navigation. Even the most loyal .TVers admit the extension is for development not flipping.

But I will agree, if I cannot make money off a website then perhaps it is best to do something other than acquire domains "for eventual development." Note that one poster on this forum has shared his profitable experience with a lead generation model. Perhaps in time I can implement a similar model. Until then one could say this is just an expensive and time-consuming hobby. Nevertheless, I have learned a great deal the last few months I would never have learned merely sitting on parked domains.

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snoop

Agree those names are worth alot.

The thing is you started talking about these types of names (not me) by saying the parked pages don't have repeat visitors, I agree with what you have said but not much point saying most can't afford a type in domain with thousands of visitors per month, I is a bit like talking about how Ferrari's are not very good for driving to shops in and that most can't afford them, yes we know that. All I've done is explain why they are worth so much. The average popular term .com is not the same as a .com with thousands of visitors per month. Two very different markets. Like I said .com names with real asset value start at about $50, they probably have no traffic.

You probably already have the answer to that. If revenue from domaining (sales, parking) is higher than expenses you have chosen good names. Otherwise your business model has issues.

Yes, it is on the decline and I never said it wasn't. However it hasn't seen anywhere near the decline that the .tv market has seen. .tv domainers are in the main making nothing at all from what I can see of it. Look around, the market for these names is close to non existant now and everyone is talking about becoming developers rather than domainers. I'm not saying people should start buying PPC names, I just explained why the fact that they have no repeat visitors is of no real relevance. They have alot of value for 2 other reasons, income + potential.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=593446
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=593446


Not much to say here, if you model is working now it is good one, if it isn't then changes need to be made. Whatever ever you do make sure you are making money here and now.

mwzd

Still looking for a future are we?

I was under the impression we passed the peak a few years back.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=593446

There is no major future for anyone investing in .tv today as far as i can see.

- The good keywords are gone, or have huge renewals, the mid level keywords can't even get a decent reg fee resale, even w/o premium renewals. That's why you see 1000s of them dropping almost everyday.

- There is no local market to speak off, never was.

- The thousands of tv channels who were supposed to be 'perfect end users' for .tv are not really bothered with the extension, they're going on with their business with .com or tv.com or cctlds.

- Everyone talks about 'behind the scenes deals', which no one knows about, no one talks about and cannot be verified tbh, making them as relevant as a rumour. Not to mention just about reliable as a rumour.

- With a multitude of cctlds now available, .tv is relegated to being another 'brandable' cctld w/o any inherent marketing benefits aside from a 20th century catchphrase.

- Most of the branding dollars are moving back to .com or into newer cctlds which form common dictionary words - in, me, be, am, at, it, etc.

- Even proponents who have been in the game and seen it for a long time have pretty much given up, take clips.tv's comments above - its a realistic take from an insiders perspective.

I sold / dropped anything i can't see myself developing / using, resale is not an option tbh, myaction.tv sold for $2, pretty much sums up the extension.

All domain investment is a tough business, however .tv is almost impossible for any newcomer today.

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Ultra

Wasting your time with .tv

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stutter

I agree with most of what you have written.. There are far to many ccltds now and because of the games played by the .tv gods - (verisign, demand media, enom and me.tv which failed miserably),it really has devalued an extension that could of been something.. Ive let 90% of my names drop and have moved onto other investments.. This was never my main income, so It didnt bother me that much financially.
I see L????TV.com's being the main url for video centric websites, with .tv a distant second.
Its a shame the extension is in the hands of morons who have really sabotaged it ever since they took it over... As in any business, you need to get traction before asking ridiculous amounts of money for unproven results. .asia and .me auctions are also in that catergory imo.

Ah well.. next.

Jimbojimbo

I think we can only talk about things as they affect us individually.

As someone with hundreds of .TV AND hundreds of TV.coms it has to be said that the only ones that are genuinely getting offers are the TV.coms. Indeed I recently (as in this month) sold a TV.com for $1500 on sedo from people who weren't interested in the .TV. The .TVs are not getting much of a whiff in offers. (and I do have some genuinely high quality names in my portfolio, so it is not down to crap names/crap extension syndrome)

On the parked names, again, the reality is that my TV.coms do better.

But does this stop me investing in .TV NO!

I am offloading (just letting lapse rather than attempting to gain a few dollars for) many .TVs (and many TV.coms) that don't fit any of my personal requirements. My requirements being - they are strong brandable words, I like the topic, the name has good possibilities for development, good parking revenue (few), they fit in with my own business ideas, or they are saleable in any economic climate.

My premiums, in the main, I am allowing to lapse, however, some others, including a four-figure premium name I have renewed for the next two years.

The fact is that, as was mentioned in another thread by Snoop (of all people), the take up by end-users interested in creating internet TV has not matched the loss of demand from those, mostly domainers, who have been affected by the recession/depression.

Internet Tv is still coming, the biggest fear for many is that it might not be in the form of .TV but remain within the .com / traditional format - or even worse - via an established and closed market like YouTube / FaceBook etc

On the development side, the number of newstarts in the internet Tv arena that are failing is also increasing.

However, there is a genuine increase, albeit slow, in the number of real internet channels being created.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=593446

For now I think many who rely solely on .TV are taking a hit on resale - but that is the same for most extensions.

The private areas of TV related websites/forums are visibly upbeat - but there is an undercurrent of recession that cannot simply be ignored - and is manifesting itself in splits, arguments, and straightforward loss of interest - hence the same old names being here and on other TV related forums.

I think the people who run the TV extension have to face up to the fact that the extension genuinely has the chance to collapse unless something is done quite soon. Something quite dramatic. Not just a reduction / abandonment of excessive premiums, but other concrete moves, such as sitting down with Bob Parsons at GoDaddy and working out how best to promote .TV as the genuine extension for all things televisual.

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