hd404

microbus.mobi
Appraisal please.
thank you.

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Egnited

I would be aware of possible TM issues regarding "Microbus", as VW currently holds four TM's on the name.

The .com is used by an unrelated company, though... not sure what to tell you, maybe we could get the opinion of someone more knowledgable on TM issues?

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newdomainer.mobi

My two cents worth is that micro-car is an industry generic so I would be curious to see how VW could enforce a TM if it was used to describe the entire genre of micro-buses.

Maybe if you called a vehicle a microbus as a branding the TM would be effective but for a motoring journalist to describe small buses from a range of manufacturers as 'microbuses' I don't know where the TM would fit in?

So as a developed site giving news / updates / info etc.. you may get away with it... it's certainly a nice term...
However, VW do have the money to wipe the floor with you if they want to be nasty about it... so I doubt you'd stand a chance IF they took action. (but that's only an 'IF')

Good luck with it.

hd404

Originally Posted by newdomainer.mobi

My two cents worth is that micro-car is an industry generic so I would be curious to see how VW could enforce a TM if it was used to describe the entire genre of micro-buses. Maybe if you called a vehicle a microbus as a branding the TM would be effective but for a motoring journalist to describe small buses from a range of manufacturers as 'microbuses' I don't know where the TM would fit in? So as a developed site giving news / updates / info etc.. you may get away with it... it's certainly a nice term... However, VW do have the money to wipe the floor with you if they want to be nasty about it... so I doubt you'd stand a chance IF they took action. (but that's only an 'IF') Good luck with it.

thank you.

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labrocca

Not worth reg fee. Delete if possible.

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hd404

Originally Posted by labrocca

Not worth reg fee. Delete if possible.

Why should deleted?

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newdomainer.mobi

Originally Posted by hd404

Why should deleted?

Because Lebrocca doesn't like agreeing with anyone these days it seems ;-)

keithmt

It's looks like a TM violation to me. Check what the TM covers...
I would drop it in a hurry!



MICROBUS
Goods and Services IC 012. US 019 021 023 031 035 044. G & S: Automobiles, trucks, vans, sport utility vehicles, lorries, trailers, busses, trains, locomotives, bicycles, tricycles, motorcycles, snowmobiles, airplanes, boats and ships, hot air balloons and dirigibles, camping trailers, folding and hard side truck camping trailers, motor homes, conversion vans, travel trailers, camper coaches and structural parts for all of the aforesaid goods; complete engines for land vehicles
IC 018. US 001 002 003 022 041. G & S: Goods made from leather and imitations of leather, namely, animal skins and furs sold in bulk; whips; harnesses for animals; valises, wallets, suitcases, executive cases, bags, namely, all purpose athletic bags, all purpose sports bags, animal game bags, barrel bags, beach bags, book bags, carry-on bags; luggage; luggage trunks; umbrellas, parasols, key cases

IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: Clothing of all kinds, namely, parkas, anoraks, aprons, ascots, athletic uniforms, babushkas, balloon pants, neck bands, sweat bands, wrist bands, bathing suits, bathing trunks, bathrobes, beach coverups, beachwear, bed jackets, garter belts, money belts, belts, bermuda shorts, cloth bibs, ski bibs, bikinis, blazers, bloomers, blouses, blousons, boas, body shapers, body suits, boleros, bottoms, bow ties, boxer shorts, bras, brassieres, breeches, briefs, baby bunting, bustiers, caftans, camisoles, capes, cardigans, cassocks, chaps, chasubles, chemises, chemisettes, cloth diapers, fur coats, lab coats, leather coats, over coats, rain coats, sport coats, suit coats, top coats, coats, collars, combinations, competitors' numbers of textile, corselets, namely, corsets and girdles, halloween costumes, masquerade costumes, masquerade costumes and masks sold in connection therewith, coveralls, coverups, cravats, creepers, cuffs, culottes, cummerbunds, dickies, dress shields, dresses, dressing gowns, dry suits, dungarees, dusters, espadrilles, evening gowns, fishing vests, fishing waders, flight suits, foul weather gear, foundation garments, frocks, fur cloaks, fur jackets, fur stoles, gaberdines, gaiters, gauchos, ski gloves, gloves, golf shirts, night gowns, wedding gowns, gowns, greatcoats, gym shorts, gym suits, halter tops, hoods, hosiery, housecoats, infant diaper covers, infantwear, leather jackets, wind resistant jackets, jackets, jeans, jerkins, jerseys, jodhpurs, jogging suits, jumpers, jumpsuits, kerchiefs, kilts, kimonos, knee highs, knickers, knit shirts, layettes, leg warmers, leggings, leotards, light-reflecting coats, light-reflecting jackets, lingerie, loungewear, maillots, mantillas, mantles, miniskirts, mittens, mufflers, muffs, muu muus, neckerchief, neckwear, negligees, night shirts, nurse's apparel, namely, dresses, hats, shirts, pants, leggings, coats and gloves, nursing apparel, namely, dresses, hats, shirts, pants, leggings. coats and gloves, overalls, shoulder pads for clothing, pajamas, pantaloons, panties, ski pants, snow pants, sweat pants, tap pants, pants, pantsuits, pantyhose, paraments, pareu, pedal pushers, peignoirs, pelerines, pelisses, petticoats, pinafores, play suits, plus fours, pocket squares, polo shirts, ponchos, pullovers, quilted vests, rain suits, rainwear, robes, rompers, saris, sarongs, sashes, shawls, shifts, sport shirts, sweat shirts, under shirts, shirts, short sets, shortalls, sweat shorts, shorts, singlets, ski masks, ski suits, ski wear, skirts, skorts, slacks, sleep masks, sleepwear, slips, smocks, snow suits, snowboard gloves, stockings, stoles, sweat suits, vested suits, warm-up suits, wet suits, suits, sunsuits, suspenders, swaddling clothes, turtleneck sweaters, v-neck sweaters, sweaters, swim trunks, swim wear, swimsuits, t-shirts, tailleurs, tangas, tank tops, teddies, tennis wear, thermal underwear, ties, tights, togas, tops, toques, tracksuits, trousers, tunics, turbans, turtlenecks, tuxedos, underclothes, undergarments, underpants, undershirts, underwear, uniforms, unitards, veils, vests, waistcoats, windshirts, wraps, zoot suits; footwear of all kinds, namely, after ski boots, ski boot bags, socks, anklets, athletic footwear, athletic shoes, booties, ski boots, boots, toe boxes, cleats for attachment to sports shoes, clogs, galoshes, golf shoes, heel inserts, heels, inner soles, insoles, moccasins, mukluks, overshoes, rubbers, sandals, shoes, slippers, sneakers, thermal socks, socks, snowboard boots, sweat socks, thongs, water socks, Hori; headgear for wear of all kinds namely, bandanas, bandeaux, head bands, baseball caps, bathing caps, berets, bonnets, shower caps, caps, ear muffs, hats, sun visors, visors; neckties, scarves

IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: Games, namely, board games, card games, hand held units for playing video games; playthings, namely, swing sets, play sets for dolls; gymnastics and sporting articles, namely, gymnastic horizontal bars, gymnastic parallel bars, gymnastic training stools, gymnastic vaulting horses; scale model vehicles, namely, scale model cars; sports balls, cricket bags, plush toys, swimming flippers, water wing swim aids for recreational use, Christmas tree ornaments except illumination articles and confectionery

IC 037. US 100 103 106. G & S: Construction, repair, dismantling and maintenance of vehicles in the nature of vehicle repair in the course of vehicle breakdown service, cleaning, servicing and varnishing of vehicles

Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS
Design Search Code 18.03.25 - Carts, go, human powered; Golf carts (human powered); Scooters (non-motorized); Walkers, baby
18.05.04 - Buses; Cable cars, trolley; Trolleys
Serial Number 76250607
Filing Date May 3, 2001
Current Filing Basis 44E
Original Filing Basis 1B;44D
Published for Opposition January 22, 2008
Owner (APPLICANT) VOLKSWAGEN AKTIENGESELLSCHAFT CORPORATION FED REP GERMANY Brieffach 1770 38436 Wolfsburg FED REP GERMANY
Attorney of Record Barth X. deRosa
Priority Date November 10, 2000
Prior Registrations 2712707;3003226
Description of Mark Color is not claimed as a feature of the mark. The mark consists of a stylized design of a bus.
Type of Mark TRADEMARK. SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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newdomainer.mobi

It's just a TM on "microbus"

That doesn't mean that you cannot use the domain in a consumer blog against microbus
That doesn't preclude me from using two perfectly ordinary terms / words from the English language - Micro & Bus
Domains don't have spaces... if I used the domain & all my printed material was about a "micro" "bus" & not a microbus I think I'd be happy to fend off a challenge; VW can't stop the use of generic words...

Just don't use it in way that directly relates to VW....

In fact if you want to play smart... I'd look into the possibility of trying to TM a different word / term (that just happens to be spelt the same)

They're called "Homonyms" - A domainers bestest friend ever... go & look it up if you're not familiar with it.. you can claim a new homonym - as long as it's plausible (you couldn't say you've invented a new floor cleaning agent called Coca-Cola for example... although it will dissolve many things & shine up coins... it makes the floor sticky ;-) - but more importantly - the name isn't plausible... microbus - I'm sure you could play with that a bit?

e.g Microbus as in microbe but with a 'us' at the end.. the pronunciation is different & the meaning totally unrelated to vehicles; then see if you get any offers..

It's the name for a new disinfectant - get microbus today, kills all known germs ;-)

Hey, I've got away with something similar before; they know you're taking the p*** but they realise it's cheaper just to buy the name from you in the end ;-)

Originally Posted by keithmt

It's looks like a TM violation to me. Check what the TM covers... I would drop it in a hurry! MICROBUS Goods and Services IC 012. US 019 021 023 031 035 044. G & S: Automobiles, trucks, vans, sport utility vehicles, lorries, trailers, busses, trains, locomotives, bicycles, tricycles, motorcycles, snowmobiles, airplanes, boats and ships, hot air balloons and dirigibles, camping trailers, folding and hard side truck camping trailers, motor homes, conversion vans, travel trailers, camper coaches and structural parts for all of the aforesaid goods; complete engines for land vehicles IC 018. US 001 002 003 022 041. G & S: Goods made from leather and imitations of leather, namely, animal skins and furs sold in bulk; whips; harnesses for animals; valises, wallets, suitcases, executive cases, bags, namely, all purpose athletic bags, all purpose sports bags, animal game bags, barrel bags, beach bags, book bags, carry-on bags; luggage; luggage trunks; umbrellas, parasols, key cases IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: Clothing of all kinds, namely, parkas, anoraks, aprons, ascots, athletic uniforms, babushkas, balloon pants, neck bands, sweat bands, wrist bands, bathing suits, bathing trunks, bathrobes, beach coverups, beachwear, bed jackets, garter belts, money belts, belts, bermuda shorts, cloth bibs, ski bibs, bikinis, blazers, bloomers, blouses, blousons, boas, body shapers, body suits, boleros, bottoms, bow ties, boxer shorts, bras, brassieres, breeches, briefs, baby bunting, bustiers, caftans, camisoles, capes, cardigans, cassocks, chaps, chasubles, chemises, chemisettes, cloth diapers, fur coats, lab coats, leather coats, over coats, rain coats, sport coats, suit coats, top coats, coats, collars, combinations, competitors' numbers of textile, corselets, namely, corsets and girdles, halloween costumes, masquerade costumes, masquerade costumes and masks sold in connection therewith, coveralls, coverups, cravats, creepers, cuffs, culottes, cummerbunds, dickies, dress shields, dresses, dressing gowns, dry suits, dungarees, dusters, espadrilles, evening gowns, fishing vests, fishing waders, flight suits, foul weather gear, foundation garments, frocks, fur cloaks, fur jackets, fur stoles, gaberdines, gaiters, gauchos, ski gloves, gloves, golf shirts, night gowns, wedding gowns, gowns, greatcoats, gym shorts, gym suits, halter tops, hoods, hosiery, housecoats, infant diaper covers, infantwear, leather jackets, wind resistant jackets, jackets, jeans, jerkins, jerseys, jodhpurs, jogging suits, jumpers, jumpsuits, kerchiefs, kilts, kimonos, knee highs, knickers, knit shirts, layettes, leg warmers, leggings, leotards, light-reflecting coats, light-reflecting jackets, lingerie, loungewear, maillots, mantillas, mantles, miniskirts, mittens, mufflers, muffs, muu muus, neckerchief, neckwear, negligees, night shirts, nurse's apparel, namely, dresses, hats, shirts, pants, leggings, coats and gloves, nursing apparel, namely, dresses, hats, shirts, pants, leggings. coats and gloves, overalls, shoulder pads for clothing, pajamas, pantaloons, panties, ski pants, snow pants, sweat pants, tap pants, pants, pantsuits, pantyhose, paraments, pareu, pedal pushers, peignoirs, pelerines, pelisses, petticoats, pinafores, play suits, plus fours, pocket squares, polo shirts, ponchos, pullovers, quilted vests, rain suits, rainwear, robes, rompers, saris, sarongs, sashes, shawls, shifts, sport shirts, sweat shirts, under shirts, shirts, short sets, shortalls, sweat shorts, shorts, singlets, ski masks, ski suits, ski wear, skirts, skorts, slacks, sleep masks, sleepwear, slips, smocks, snow suits, snowboard gloves, stockings, stoles, sweat suits, vested suits, warm-up suits, wet suits, suits, sunsuits, suspenders, swaddling clothes, turtleneck sweaters, v-neck sweaters, sweaters, swim trunks, swim wear, swimsuits, t-shirts, tailleurs, tangas, tank tops, teddies, tennis wear, thermal underwear, ties, tights, togas, tops, toques, tracksuits, trousers, tunics, turbans, turtlenecks, tuxedos, underclothes, undergarments, underpants, undershirts, underwear, uniforms, unitards, veils, vests, waistcoats, windshirts, wraps, zoot suits; footwear of all kinds, namely, after ski boots, ski boot bags, socks, anklets, athletic footwear, athletic shoes, booties, ski boots, boots, toe boxes, cleats for attachment to sports shoes, clogs, galoshes, golf shoes, heel inserts, heels, inner soles, insoles, moccasins, mukluks, overshoes, rubbers, sandals, shoes, slippers, sneakers, thermal socks, socks, snowboard boots, sweat socks, thongs, water socks, Hori; headgear for wear of all kinds namely, bandanas, bandeaux, head bands, baseball caps, bathing caps, berets, bonnets, shower caps, caps, ear muffs, hats, sun visors, visors; neckties, scarves IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: Games, namely, board games, card games, hand held units for playing video games; playthings, namely, swing sets, play sets for dolls; gymnastics and sporting articles, namely, gymnastic horizontal bars, gymnastic parallel bars, gymnastic training stools, gymnastic vaulting horses; scale model vehicles, namely, scale model cars; sports balls, cricket bags, plush toys, swimming flippers, water wing swim aids for recreational use, Christmas tree ornaments except illumination articles and confectionery IC 037. US 100 103 106. G & S: Construction, repair, dismantling and maintenance of vehicles in the nature of vehicle repair in the course of vehicle breakdown service, cleaning, servicing and varnishing of vehicles Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 18.03.25 - Carts, go, human powered; Golf carts (human powered); Scooters (non-motorized); Walkers, baby 18.05.04 - Buses; Cable cars, trolley; Trolleys Serial Number 76250607 Filing Date May 3, 2001 Current Filing Basis 44E Original Filing Basis 1B;44D Published for Opposition January 22, 2008 Owner (APPLICANT) VOLKSWAGEN AKTIENGESELLSCHAFT CORPORATION FED REP GERMANY Brieffach 1770 38436 Wolfsburg FED REP GERMANY Attorney of Record Barth X. deRosa Priority Date November 10, 2000 Prior Registrations 2712707;3003226 Description of Mark Color is not claimed as a feature of the mark. The mark consists of a stylized design of a bus. Type of Mark TRADEMARK. SERVICE MARK Register PRINCIPAL-2(F) Live/Dead Indicator LIVE --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PVFARKAS

I think Keith's just stating that your starting on an uphill climb when facing multiple tm's.

keithmt

Originally Posted by newdomainer.mobi

It's just a TM on "microbus" That doesn't mean that you cannot use the domain in a consumer blog against microbus That doesn't preclude me from using two perfectly ordinary terms / words from the English language - Micro & bus

You mean just 2 ordinary words like pay and pal. Because if you
regged paypal.mobi you know there would be trouble. The same
is true for any highly branded combos

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newdomainer.mobi

Originally Posted by keithmt

You mean just 2 ordinary words like pay and pal. Because if you regged paypal.mobi you know there would be trouble. The same is true for any highly branded combos

Nice try... ;-)

Pay & Pal are two words that don't fit quite as naturally as Micro - bus (we have micro cars, micro bikes, why not micro buses?

The suggestion I made is kind of plausible (maybe tweak it a little) - Microbes
/ microbus not a world apart... I can imagine talking about some Biotech subject and talking about the microbus material ;-)

You could use Pay & Pal together as in when are you going to Pay, Pal? but as a domain it's tricky, as you say you'd get hauled up pretty sharp... but if for example 'paypal' was actually dutch for 'people' (which it isn't of course) but if it was the Paypal (TM) would have no right to intervene - just so long as the name was used in the Dutch context with no overlap on PayPals business..


I think people get too hung up about TM's - yes they're dodgy at times but they're not always against the grain; I'm for it if it helps fight abuse, corruption, political wrongdoing, whistle blowing, cruelty, tardy customer service, recklessness, mismanagement etc etc.

There has recently been a landmark case allowing the use of a TM in the context of customer vs company dispute... as long as it isn't libellous...

Free Speech... & if you get a cease & desist letter offer to settle by giving them the name for free but charging an admin fee of $125.00 (for example)
Push them for it but draw the line when they start to get nasty.. then & only then pass the name over & walk away.. 'til then, it's all to play for (& there are no costs involved as long as you don't go all the way to court)

13687142743

iphone.mobi and amd.mobi and youtube.mobi？del?

newdomainer.mobi

Originally Posted by 13687142743

iphone.mobi and amd.mobi and youtube.mobi？del?

? what?

amd.mobi most certainly not an infringement of any kind (unless you use it for a computer chip business of course)

If its for "Amityville Management Division" Absolutely not.

iphone.mobi - in China maybe but even then I doubt it... come on - use your common sense here.. what can i & phone be used for that isn't phone related?

"IPH one" maybe? But to stand any chance you'd need to have a business or an address that was already IPH one

"International Purists Hotel" (IPH) at One High Street, Somewhere Town... could get away with it... BUT ONLY if they were already using that 'tag' before the iphone came out & only if they Used the domain in that way & only if their branding clearly seperated the IPH & the One...
The odds are slim because its hard to back-date a fraud so this would usually be one of those honest coincidences...

"You Tube" again, only if pre-existing.... if there was a lucky individual who named a fashion product in 1980 & could evidence that... (even without a TM but one would help) then they could be ok... but they would have to show that a) they really did name a boob tube 'you tube' & b) they'd probably be asked to show that they had been making these consistently since 1980... if there had been a 23 year break in production; resuming post Apple iphone I don't think they'd have much hope in court...

It's a case of 'what are the odds of that' (Except AMD - totally unactionable unless an infringement on their business activities)

keithmt

Originally Posted by newdomainer.mobi

Nice try... ;-) Pay & Pal are two words that don't fit quite as naturally as Micro - bus (we have micro cars, micro bikes, why not micro buses? The suggestion I made is kind of plausible (maybe tweak it a little) - Microbes / microbus not a world apart... I can imagine talking about some Biotech subject and talking about the microbus material ;-) You could use Pay & Pal together as in when are you going to Pay, Pal? but as a domain it's tricky, as you say you'd get hauled up pretty sharp... but if for example 'paypal' was actually dutch for 'people' (which it isn't of course) but if it was the Paypal (TM) would have no right to intervene - just so long as the name was used in the Dutch context with no overlap on PayPals business.. I think people get too hung up about TM's - yes they're dodgy at times but they're not always against the grain; I'm for it if it helps fight abuse, corruption, political wrongdoing, whistle blowing, cruelty, tardy customer service, recklessness, mismanagement etc etc. There has recently been a landmark case allowing the use of a TM in the context of customer vs company dispute... as long as it isn't libellous... Free Speech... & if you get a cease & desist letter offer to settle by giving them the name for free but charging an admin fee of $125.00 (for example) Push them for it but draw the line when they start to get nasty.. then & only then pass the name over & walk away.. 'til then, it's all to play for (& there are no costs involved as long as you don't go all the way to court)

I guess this is my point. With an endless pool of names to choose from,
why mess with something that may get you in hot water? Clearly VW has TMs on everything under the sun for the term "microbus". If someone wants to try and work around that, great. For me personally it would just be a head ache.

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newdomainer.mobi

Originally Posted by keithmt

I guess this is my point. With an endless pool of names to choose from, why mess with something that may get you in hot water? Clearly VW has TMs on everything under the sun for the term "microbus". If someone wants to try and work around that, great. For me personally it would just be a head ache.

Sorry Keith, I see where you are coming from; I would agree that you don't want to be spending too much time & money on development, just a quick landing page... or nothing at all (i.e. just hold the name & wait)

But holding doesn't get you in hot water... until (if) you get the C&D letter - even that doesn't worry me, they often don't follow through with threats