unreasonable seller

doiz · 12-11-2006, 10:34 PM

There's this domain that I want to buy but the seller is simply unresonable. His asking price is too high and he refuses to give a proper justification to his asking price. The domain doesn't get any traffic, it doesn't generate any revenue, it's not even a premium domain. He just keeps saying that "someone" offered 10 grand for it and so that's his selling price. I'm thinking of just trademarking it and prying the name from him. It's not a generic nor a dictionary name; it's perfectly unique so I'm pretty confident that it can be trademarked. I'd rather spend my money on doing that than giving it to him since he's so unreasonable and annoying, and I'm thinking of using the name for my business anyhow. Will I be able to get the domain that way or not?

Fka200 · 12-11-2006, 11:08 PM

No. He would have reg'd it before your trademark.

bliss · 12-11-2006, 11:09 PM

Quote:

I'm thinking of just trademarking it and prying the name from him.

That is pretty underhanded of you to do. Also, add to the fact that the domain is already registered and there is not much you can do if you get a trademark after a domain is registered by a person.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-newbies/268060-unreasonable-seller.html

If you feel it is unreasonable then just walk away. If you really really want the domain then buy it for that unreasonable amount.

RJ · 12-11-2006, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by doiz

Will I be able to get the domain that way or not?

Not a chance. Since his registration predates your future trademark, you're SOL. There's nothing you can do at this point except find another name that suits you.

*namenut* · 12-11-2006, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by -RJ-

Not a chance. Since his registration predates your future trademark, you're SOL. There's nothing you can do at this point except find another name that suits you.

That and maybe change your thought process. You would rather try to take it from him and you posted the idea on a public forum.....hhmmmmm nice.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=268060

namenut

RJ · 12-11-2006, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by namenut

That and maybe change your thought process. You would rather try to take it from him and you posted the idea on a public forum.....hhmmmmm nice.

Word. On a public forum of domain owners at that.

newton · 12-12-2006, 12:11 AM

Either stump up the cash and buy it or move on to another name.

briman1970 · 12-12-2006, 12:26 AM

I agree with everyone here. It's a pretty shitty way of thinking, even though you don't have a snowballs chance in hell of getting the name that way.

sdtrader · 12-12-2006, 12:27 AM

Don't want to sound like an echo but I am curious if you feel you have a right to this name at the price you want to pay?
It is his domain.

bliss · 12-12-2006, 12:45 AM

Quote:

His asking price is too high and he refuses to give a proper justification to his asking price.

Simply put the justification is because you (someone) wants it. I have a slew of domains that I would sale dirt cheap until someone wants it. Like the person above me said, it's thier domain, you can not like it all you want, but they can set the asking price to what they want and not have a valid reason at all. That is life, move on if you don't want to pay the asking price. I am sure you can find some other TLD/ ccTLD with that name.

**Dave Zan** · 12-12-2006, 02:23 AM

Originally Posted by doiz

he refuses to give a proper justification to his asking price.

You realize the person in question doesn't even have to reply to you at all in
the first place, right? Because if that's the case, then why should s/he have
to justify him/herself to you?

Domain names were not intentionally meant to become commodities. But now
that they are, they're fair game just like any other product or service we pay
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=268060
with our hard-earned money.

And why spend money on something (getting a trademark that is) that has no
guarantee whatsoever you'll get what you want? If you didn't know, that sort
of thing is called "reverse domain name hijacking" (just google it).

If you attempt it, it could backfire. And there goes your hard-earned dough.

And don't forget one of the oldest and earliest rules of domain names: they're
first come, first served. The first to obtain it can do anything as s/he pleases
as long as s/he doesn't break any applicable rule or law.

While I guess what I'm going to ask of you is perhaps too much, try to spend
a little more time learning and understanding issues involving domain names.
By then, you might appreciate them a little more and know how to approach
them a wee bit wiser.

Try to give this more thought, especially if the shoe's on the other foot. You
might be surprised.

Jasdon · 12-12-2006, 02:40 AM

doiz, you've been a member here for nearly 3 years - havn't you learnt anything?

You wouldn't have a chance (as everyone above has said) of getting it the way you suggest. You would have to prove registration in bad faith - how could you do that?

If you came off to the owner like you did in you're initial post, he probably stuck at least one zero on the end...

Mark · 12-12-2006, 03:15 AM

Well - I was going to Voice my Opinion ..... But it's Been said enough already

I've said it before and I'll say it again - It's No one's business WHAT Price a "Owner" places on their own Domain Except them. Nothing bugs me more than this type thinking .... I bust people for Sales Crashing over this all the time - Someone is asking a certain price for a domain and some Joker pops up and posts "It's not worth that much" Well ..... Expect a warning for it everytime from me

It doesnt matter if it is a free .Tk domain ..... If the owner wishes to ask 1,000,000 $ - It's their choice.

This case is even worse really - Threatening to try to obtain the domain through legal channels just because they wont sell to you for a LowBall Offer ?

Don't expect any MOTM nominations this way ..........

goodkarmaco · 12-12-2006, 05:13 AM

Well one thing for sure, it is one sided as all are in agreement that the owner is in charge. But at least you asked the advice and you can take advantage of its wisdom. That way you will save much money and effort.

Its true we can get caught up in our goals and get mad about things not going our way. True character is formed when things are going against us.

Its possible the name will find its way to you. Get creative.

I have one idea. Tell him how you felt, that you thought he was way over priced on it. That was upsetting for you as you wanted to develope it. Let him know now you have had time to think it over.

Now you want him to know you admire him for not selling out for what he believes in. Mention you were just anxious to get the name but lack the funds he desires. Its because you want to use the name for a site that you have a vision for. Mention in closing that if he ever decides to let it go for a lesser price that you will hope he contacts you.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=268060

When taking the easy way is flashing at us like a Casino sign, its important to choose what to do wisely.

Only one outcome matters, having business ethics in your domain business. Doing that will bring the most success eventually. You have reinforced in us the need to be professional.

Thanks for your post. Who knows he might drop his price if he realizes others see he has a great and valuable domain.

doiz · 12-12-2006, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by goodkarmaco

I have one idea. Tell him how you felt, that you thought he was way over priced on it. That was upsetting for you as you wanted to develope it. Let him know now you have had time to think it over.

I already did that. We've been negotiating the price for months already and I'm just getting frustrated. *pulls hair out*

Like you all probably already figured out, I'm not familiar with domains, that's why I asked. I was just thinking that maybe I could kill two birds with one stone, since as mentioned, I'm going to use the name for my business. It's growing quite a bit and I'm incorporating it soon. *sigh* The .net and .org sellers were pretty reasonable too, it's just this .com that's so hard to talk to. And his english isn't even that understandable. Grr, so frustrating. Oh well, thanks for all the feedback.

Spade · 12-12-2006, 11:57 AM

Doiz -

How far apart are you on the negotiations? Is he demanding 10k and your comming to the table with $500 bucks? Without knowing further what the domain name is, theres is little way that we could value this name to see if your assumption that the name is not worth 10k is true. But the problem is that you have basically told the owner of the domain name that you must have it, this makes it more valuable. The fact that you keep comming after the domain - means unquestionably its worth a lot. Best of luck - but it sounds like your going to end up paying if you want this name.

Justin

slugraduate · 12-12-2006, 12:47 PM

Can you blame the youngsters these days? It's the American way according to what they have grown up with. If you don't give me what I want, I will just take from you. After all, it isn't fair that you've gotten it before I have.

Originally Posted by doiz

There's this domain that I want to buy but the seller is simply unresonable. His asking price is too high and he refuses to give a proper justification to his asking price. The domain doesn't get any traffic, it doesn't generate any revenue, it's not even a premium domain. He just keeps saying that "someone" offered 10 grand for it and so that's his selling price. I'm thinking of just trademarking it and prying the name from him. It's not a generic nor a dictionary name; it's perfectly unique so I'm pretty confident that it can be trademarked. I'd rather spend my money on doing that than giving it to him since he's so unreasonable and annoying, and I'm thinking of using the name for my business anyhow. Will I be able to get the domain that way or not?

dna · 12-12-2006, 01:28 PM

If he values his domain highly maybe he values other names highly too.
You might try to do some sort of name trade.

dom35 · 12-12-2006, 01:42 PM

A .com can be bought by anyone from any country and any language. You want (may be "need" is the right word) the domain and it is your job to try to contact and reach the other part in the best possible way. Why he must to speak well Your native language ? do you speak other "foreign" languages or the language of the person that have the wisdom to register the domain that you need ?.

Please try to be more human, recognize that you really need the domain and if that person was wise enought to register "your" domain, may be it is also wise enought to get more money of it, just in case that is in the domains business. If it is just in a "real" business, it will just value the domain in the money that can get using it. If you need it, better try to pay now than try to buy it later at a even higher price. If you not need it, look for another domain.

But using reverse hijacking it is not the way to follow.

Originally Posted by doiz

"And his english isn't even that understandable. Grr, so frustrating. Oh well, thanks for all the feedback.

TestCase · 12-13-2006, 11:05 PM

Quote:

It's the American way according to what they have grown up with. If you don't give me what I want, I will just take from you. After all, it isn't fair that you've gotten it before I have.

HAHAHAAAA... Sooo true!!! </Begin Rant>And every year this mentality of "automatic entitlement" becomes more ingrained and spreads ever further. Sigh...</End Rant>

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread...

Quote:

A .com can be bought by anyone from any country and any language. You want (may be "need" is the right word) the domain and it is your job to try to contact and reach the other part in the best possible way. Why he must to speak well Your native language ? do you speak other "foreign" languages or the language of the person that have the wisdom to register the domain that you need ?.

Please try to be more human, recognize that you really need the domain and if that person was wise enought to register "your" domain, may be it is also wise enought to get more money of it, just in case that is in the domains business. If it is just in a "real" business, it will just value the domain in the money that can get using it. If you need it, better try to pay now than try to buy it later at a even higher price. If you not need it, look for another domain.

Yeah! What Dom35 said...
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=268060

You either need to let it go and find another domain you can live with, or suck it up and pay the price the seller wants. Heck, maybe if you did back off of it for a couple of months, the seller might come back with an offer that might seem more reasonable to you.

As of right now though, he KNOWS you REALLY want the dn -- and THAT puts him in the driver's seat no matter WHAT his nationality is or what YOU want to pay or think the name is worth.

*verbster* · 12-14-2006, 01:17 AM

Business is war, and you are simply up against a tough adversary. New strategies come into play...as someone above mentioned, find a domain he may value and see if a trade is possible. If all fails, I'm willing to bet there's a good ccTLD available for your business...it's a compromise, but it buys you a domain name to start you off, and it buys you time to continue your battle.

WhiteWebServices · 12-14-2006, 04:04 AM

I have a little more sympathy for you than the others here. It's frustrating when an owner prices a domain out of usage. If that's what's happened here then dropping his price expectations a little would be good for the seller (he'd get a sale at a fair price rather than no sale), for you (you'd get the domain you want for your business), and for everyone else (the internet would get just a little bit better with one more domain pointing to an active site).
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=268060

However, it's his domain and he's within his rights to refuse to sell at any price. The trademark trick won't (and shouldn't) work.

Hopefully he's holding out for a high price because he thinks that's what you specifically are willing to pay, rather than because he thinks that's what people in general would pay for this domain. If that's the case, then when he realises you won't go that high he might just drop his price to salvage a sale. If it's worth more to you than anyone else, then the best price he's going to get is the most that you're willing to pay (either now or in the future), so, rationally, that's what he should take.

If it's worth more to someone else, then his valuation is reasonable and he hasn't priced it out of usage.

If he really is being unrealistic and inflexible, then you can at least take satisfaction in the fact that he won't make any money out of the domain, but you'll just have to make do without.

domainer50 · 12-14-2006, 07:17 PM

In order to place a trademark, you need to have something to place it on hence a domain name. But if you start a business with that name, and file for a DBA you may have some leverage.

YesBrilliant · 12-14-2006, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by domainer50

In order to place a trademark, you need to have something to place it on hence a domain name. But if you start a business with that name, and file for a DBA you may have some leverage.

He does not have any chance. At all.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=268060

Additionally (1), even when a name is trademarked it CAN yet be used, as long as it is used for another area not competing with the TM's owner. Check "Global" for example, several companies under that same TM. He has no chance.

Additionally (2), his possible TM would be filed AFTER the domain owner registered it. This fact alone impossibilitates that, deplorable, tatic.

However, there is still one last chance, extremely remote, but there is hope. As the buyer said that the "domain doesn't get any traffic, it doesn't generate any revenue, it's not even a premium domain" the owner MIGHT leave it drop and not renew it. Sure, the buyer already expressed his STRONG interest, the .net and .org are taken... but if he just keep checking it for the dropping time, who knows???

Don't want all the work, research and wait? Pay what is asked.

.

slugraduate · 12-14-2006, 08:25 PM

The more I think about this, akrasia is on the mark. Why don't you just send the owner a note. Explain that offers don't come around much and if you cannot work out a deal, it could be his last for a very long time.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=268060

Explain that you want the name and are simply willing or able to pay x for it. Don't try to lowball him if you know it is worth 3x your offer. Find a happy medium that you both can live with. If he sells, then good for you. If he refuses to lower the price, simply and respectfully let him know when he decides to negotiate, to come calliing. A few months down the road, he may need a few bucks quickly and will remember your offer. If not, use the.net till he drops it or he finds a better deal and you are forced to move on.

I use a .net for my web business. If you market it right, it won't effect you much at all, unless you think that a significant portion of your business is type in. If so, find a new .com and be creative. Instead of bookclub.com try sarahsbooks.com or whatever.

12-11-2006, 10:34 PM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
doiz New Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: OC Posts: 17	unreasonable seller There's this domain that I want to buy but the seller is simply unresonable. His asking price is too high and he refuses to give a proper justification to his asking price. The domain doesn't get any traffic, it doesn't generate any revenue, it's not even a premium domain. He just keeps saying that "someone" offered 10 grand for it and so that's his selling price. I'm thinking of just trademarking it and prying the name from him. It's not a generic nor a dictionary name; it's perfectly unique so I'm pretty confident that it can be trademarked. I'd rather spend my money on doing that than giving it to him since he's so unreasonable and annoying, and I'm thinking of using the name for my business anyhow. Will I be able to get the domain that way or not?

12-11-2006, 11:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
Fka200 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,594	No. He would have reg'd it before your trademark. __________________ Domain News \| City Classified Shoes \| Shoetopia \| Soda Shoes

12-12-2006, 12:11 AM	#7 (permalink)
newton Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Everywhere Posts: 1,433	Either stump up the cash and buy it or move on to another name. __________________ The speed of light is faster than sound that's why some people appear bright until they open their mouths

12-12-2006, 12:26 AM	#8 (permalink)
briman1970 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: LA (Lower Alabama) Posts: 3,127	I agree with everyone here. It's a pretty shitty way of thinking, even though you don't have a snowballs chance in hell of getting the name that way. __________________ Check out MY PORTFOLIO at Sedo!!! *(and if you feel froggy, make an offer on one of my domains!)*

12-12-2006, 03:15 AM	#13 (permalink)
Mark Hi :) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: NC Posts: 9,566	Well - I was going to Voice my Opinion ..... But it's Been said enough already I've said it before and I'll say it again - It's No one's business WHAT Price a "Owner" places on their own Domain Except them. Nothing bugs me more than this type thinking .... I bust people for Sales Crashing over this all the time - Someone is asking a certain price for a domain and some Joker pops up and posts "It's not worth that much" Well ..... Expect a warning for it everytime from me It doesnt matter if it is a free .Tk domain ..... If the owner wishes to ask 1,000,000 $ - It's their choice. This case is even worse really - Threatening to try to obtain the domain through legal channels just because they wont sell to you for a LowBall Offer ? Don't expect any MOTM nominations this way .......... __________________ When the man at the door yelled "Alcohol , Tobacco , and Firearms" .... I just assumed it was a delivery !

12-12-2006, 12:27 AM	#9 (permalink)
sdtrader NamePros Regular Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 591	Don't want to sound like an echo but I am curious if you feel you have a right to this name at the price you want to pay? It is his domain.

12-12-2006, 02:40 AM	#12 (permalink)
Jasdon Account Closed Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 1,014	doiz, you've been a member here for nearly 3 years - havn't you learnt anything? You wouldn't have a chance (as everyone above has said) of getting it the way you suggest. You would have to prove registration in bad faith - how could you do that? If you came off to the owner like you did in you're initial post, he probably stuck at least one zero on the end...

12-12-2006, 05:13 AM	#14 (permalink)
goodkarmaco Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Blaine, Wa. Posts: 1,976	Well one thing for sure, it is one sided as all are in agreement that the owner is in charge. But at least you asked the advice and you can take advantage of its wisdom. That way you will save much money and effort. Its true we can get caught up in our goals and get mad about things not going our way. True character is formed when things are going against us. Its possible the name will find its way to you. Get creative. I have one idea. Tell him how you felt, that you thought he was way over priced on it. That was upsetting for you as you wanted to develope it. Let him know now you have had time to think it over. Now you want him to know you admire him for not selling out for what he believes in. Mention you were just anxious to get the name but lack the funds he desires. Its because you want to use the name for a site that you have a vision for. Mention in closing that if he ever decides to let it go for a lesser price that you will hope he contacts you. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=268060 When taking the easy way is flashing at us like a Casino sign, its important to choose what to do wisely. Only one outcome matters, having business ethics in your domain business. Doing that will bring the most success eventually. You have reinforced in us the need to be professional. Thanks for your post. Who knows he might drop his price if he realizes others see he has a great and valuable domain. __________________ GOODKARMACO, "Tenisonline" Last edited by goodkarmaco; 12-12-2006 at 05:26 AM.

12-12-2006, 11:57 AM	#16 (permalink)
Spade NameBio.com Founder Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 7,855	Doiz - How far apart are you on the negotiations? Is he demanding 10k and your comming to the table with $500 bucks? Without knowing further what the domain name is, theres is little way that we could value this name to see if your assumption that the name is not worth 10k is true. But the problem is that you have basically told the owner of the domain name that you must have it, this makes it more valuable. The fact that you keep comming after the domain - means unquestionably its worth a lot. Best of luck - but it sounds like your going to end up paying if you want this name. Justin __________________ Read my Blog! NameBio.com - Search The Domain Sales Index Buying LLLL.com's ending in "CA"

12-12-2006, 01:28 PM	#18 (permalink)
dna NamePros Regular Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 633	If he values his domain highly maybe he values other names highly too. You might try to do some sort of name trade.

12-14-2006, 01:17 AM	#21 (permalink)
verbster Yup. It's cold. Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Alaska Posts: 2,736	Business is war, and you are simply up against a tough adversary. New strategies come into play...as someone above mentioned, find a domain he may value and see if a trade is possible. If all fails, I'm willing to bet there's a good ccTLD available for your business...it's a compromise, but it buys you a domain name to start you off, and it buys you time to continue your battle. __________________ A good domain name is worth more than money. I've got domains up the Wazoo...wanna buy some? Last edited by verbster; 12-14-2006 at 01:54 AM.

12-14-2006, 04:04 AM	#22 (permalink)
WhiteWebServices NamePros Regular Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gloucestershire, England Posts: 450	I have a little more sympathy for you than the others here. It's frustrating when an owner prices a domain out of usage. If that's what's happened here then dropping his price expectations a little would be good for the seller (he'd get a sale at a fair price rather than no sale), for you (you'd get the domain you want for your business), and for everyone else (the internet would get just a little bit better with one more domain pointing to an active site). ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=268060 However, it's his domain and he's within his rights to refuse to sell at any price. The trademark trick won't (and shouldn't) work. Hopefully he's holding out for a high price because he thinks that's what you specifically are willing to pay, rather than because he thinks that's what people in general would pay for this domain. If that's the case, then when he realises you won't go that high he might just drop his price to salvage a sale. If it's worth more to you than anyone else, then the best price he's going to get is the most that you're willing to pay (either now or in the future), so, rationally, that's what he should take. If it's worth more to someone else, then his valuation is reasonable and he hasn't priced it out of usage. If he really is being unrealistic and inflexible, then you can at least take satisfaction in the fact that he won't make any money out of the domain, but you'll just have to make do without. __________________ White Web Services - Professional web design and HTML / CSS coding to W3C standards.

12-14-2006, 07:17 PM	#23 (permalink)
domainer50 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 3,394	In order to place a trademark, you need to have something to place it on hence a domain name. But if you start a business with that name, and file for a DBA you may have some leverage.

12-14-2006, 08:25 PM	#25 (permalink)
slugraduate NamePros Regular Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: KCMO Posts: 362	The more I think about this, akrasia is on the mark. Why don't you just send the owner a note. Explain that offers don't come around much and if you cannot work out a deal, it could be his last for a very long time. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=268060 Explain that you want the name and are simply willing or able to pay x for it. Don't try to lowball him if you know it is worth 3x your offer. Find a happy medium that you both can live with. If he sells, then good for you. If he refuses to lower the price, simply and respectfully let him know when he decides to negotiate, to come calliing. A few months down the road, he may need a few bucks quickly and will remember your offer. If not, use the.net till he drops it or he finds a better deal and you are forced to move on. I use a .net for my web business. If you market it right, it won't effect you much at all, unless you think that a significant portion of your business is type in. If so, find a new .com and be creative. Instead of bookclub.com try sarahsbooks.com or whatever.

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