Escrow service

johnn · 05-18-2005, 06:14 PM

I sold a couple of names via Escrow service (not Escrow.com).

The money has been transferred to my Paypal account. However, the buyer is a crook and used stolen credit card(s) to pay for the names. The escrow service company notified me and asked me to refund the money for them and they will try to work with the registrars to get the names back into my account.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/91258-escrow-service.html

My question would be why do I pay for the escrow service and suffered because the fraud? Should the escrow company be liable for the fraud because they did not do a good job on checking the buyer?

What's your thought? I think I'm going to hold the money and not refund to them until the names are in my account and the escrow company has 30 days to do so or they have to hold the ball.

Thanks,
John

AdoptableDomains · 05-18-2005, 06:26 PM

I'd be interested to know who the escrow service was. I'd also make a very detailed read of their TOS that you presumably agreed to, to see if they disclaim charge backs this way. Credit card fraud is generally at the liability of the credit card company or the merchant who has an agreement with them.

johnn · 05-18-2005, 07:09 PM

There is no TOS but here is what they said in FAQ:

Quote:

Unlike other online exchanges, WE guarantees that the transaction will complete or you will get your property (domain name or money) returned in full. We back this guarantee in several ways. First, we have documented our gurantee in our Membership Agreement. Second, we follow a rigorous escrow process. Every escrow payment is deposited into a special account, for example. We don't even remove the sales fee until the transaction is complete. Finally, we maintain membership in the Better Business Bureau Online Reliability Program (click the seal on our home page) to substantiate our commitment to customer satisfaction.

AdoptableDomains · 05-18-2005, 07:18 PM

With the above statement, I'd tell them they definitely have to get the names back first if they want to reverse the deal. I'd recommend getting actual screen captures of the above text and transaction info.

vip-ip · 05-18-2005, 07:48 PM

I was ripped off like that (not with domain names, though) for $300. If he (the crook) would pay to you directly, PayPal would automatically take the money from your account because the transaction was not covered by Seller's Protection Plan. This sucks, that's how I got ripped off.

johnn · 05-19-2005, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by vip-ip

I was ripped off like that (not with domain names, though) for $300. If he (the crook) would pay to you directly, PayPal would automatically take the money from your account because the transaction was not covered by Seller's Protection Plan. This sucks, that's how I got ripped off.

That's why I went through the escrow service.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=91258
I will give them 30 days to get the names back to me (that is how many days you can refund the payment from Paypal) and I'll hold the funds until the names are back in my account.

johnn · 05-19-2005, 11:07 AM

The total amount that this guy used from stolen credit card(s) is estimated around $40,000!

IAmAllanShore · 05-19-2005, 12:50 PM

johnn,
What escrow service was this?
-Allan

RJ · 05-19-2005, 01:09 PM

It's the job (and sole function?) of the escrow company to ensure that you are protected from losing your property in the transfer. Its not unreasonable for you to hold the funds until the name is available to be transferred back, IMHO. I would not want to be in a position where I could be out the domain and the money. Unfortuantely, this is the risk a company takes when they decide to act as an escrow agent.

JMJ · 05-19-2005, 01:33 PM

I'm not sure about online escrows but this would be the case in the real world RJ. I don't think there is any regulation as there is as far as real estate tranactions are concerned. I would imagine most are just acting as a mediator of sorts and if you have a look into the fine print I'm sure theres alot of legal loopholes favoring them.

johnn · 05-19-2005, 02:08 PM

They keep asking me to refund the money and did not keep me up to date on the status.
I agreed with RJ that I'll have to hold the money until I get the names back to my account
The question would be what is the reasonable time frame that I will give them. This is BAD because even that I have the money but I can't spend it!

One week, two weeks or a month?

IAmAllanShore · 05-19-2005, 02:11 PM

It would (partly) depend on the price of the sales in question, IMHO.
$10,000+ enters a whole new arena.
-Allan

octobus · 05-20-2005, 01:35 AM

You used Afternic . Better stay away from their "escrow" service

johnn · 05-20-2005, 10:02 AM

You got it. The escrow service company is after nic.
This is day four since they notified me the incident and I have not received any email as what the status is.

All the money has been transferred to my Paypal account. All they sent me from the emails were asking me to refund the money to them.

I do not mind to refund the money as long as:
1. They should let me know how long the process is going to be. I can't hold several thousand dollars for a long time.
2. They should inform me the status of what's going on with the names & registrars
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=91258
3. What would happen if I spent all the money? We use escrow service to avoid the risk of scammers and I am not in the position of losing both money and names.

This is really bad service.

Genialnames · 06-13-2005, 02:54 PM

what happened then?

johnn · 06-13-2005, 03:03 PM

Afternic is working with the registrars. They did not ask me to refund the money.

Genialnames · 06-13-2005, 03:08 PM

and what's about your domains?

johnn · 06-13-2005, 03:11 PM

They're working with the registrars to get the domain names back. They will own the domains unless they ask me to buy them back from them.

Genialnames · 06-13-2005, 03:19 PM

??? wait a moment.....my be I have not well understand so....
do you mean that to have back your domains you have to...... pay for them again?

johnn · 06-13-2005, 03:36 PM

You need to read the post. Afternic already paid me for the names and then they discovered the buyer used stolen credit card.
So as far as I am concerned the names are sold and I received the money.

Genialnames · 06-13-2005, 03:54 PM

O.K. now it is more clear...

Afternic or any whatever other escrow service....the service consist (or at least it should consist) that they receive the "things" from both the parts and they verify that everything it is fine, for that job they ask a fee, they are not involved in no way with the nature of the goods,they act like a third party, a guarantee....
If they have paid you with their money ....I think they have mada a big mistake, in my opinion that's why they don't ask you the money back, and now they, regularly,own the domains themselves (being the original "buyer" a fraud").
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=91258

He he he I think you played some magic...in other words you just have .....sold domain names to a registrar.....

***jaydub*** · 06-13-2005, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Genialnames

??? wait a moment.....my be I have not well understand so....
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=91258
do you mean that to have back your domains you have to...... pay for them again?

As far as both parties are concerned...the deal is over....Johnn keeps his money & Afternic has to get the names back & then they can do whatever they want with them.
This is how it should be when you make the claims/guarantees they & most other Escrow companies make.
Very good news Johnn...Again, the result as it should be....
And kudos to Afternic for eventually doing the right thing..

Jim

Joey · 06-13-2005, 04:23 PM

Man, CC fraud is such a pain...

Genialnames · 06-13-2005, 04:31 PM

ya man, frauds in general is such a pain, also a shame! Parasites business IMHO, parasites!

domainSPOTLIGHT · 06-13-2005, 06:18 PM

I would take the money out of my paypal account asap.

05-18-2005, 06:14 PM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
johnn NamePros Expert Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: ENameMart.com Posts: 6,036 Follow @nameintell	Escrow service I sold a couple of names via Escrow service (not Escrow.com). The money has been transferred to my Paypal account. However, the buyer is a crook and used stolen credit card(s) to pay for the names. The escrow service company notified me and asked me to refund the money for them and they will try to work with the registrars to get the names back into my account. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/91258-escrow-service.html My question would be why do I pay for the escrow service and suffered because the fraud? Should the escrow company be liable for the fraud because they did not do a good job on checking the buyer? What's your thought? I think I'm going to hold the money and not refund to them until the names are in my account and the escrow company has 30 days to do so or they have to hold the ball. Thanks, John __________________ HotWebTools.com ENamemart.com - Names For Sale TechSupportBoard.com

05-18-2005, 06:26 PM	#2 (permalink)
AdoptableDomains Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 4,027	I'd be interested to know who the escrow service was. I'd also make a very detailed read of their TOS that you presumably agreed to, to see if they disclaim charge backs this way. Credit card fraud is generally at the liability of the credit card company or the merchant who has an agreement with them. __________________ AdoptableDomains.com ~~~~~Finding Good Homes for Good Names~~~~~ FuelPrices.mobi - Fish.us - ManhattanNewYork.net - Salesmen.info - SoundSystems.org Dickering.com - JobPlacement.biz - LotteryTickets.ws - Deleted.cc - Names.im - MP3.hn

05-18-2005, 07:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
AdoptableDomains Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 4,027	With the above statement, I'd tell them they definitely have to get the names back first if they want to reverse the deal. I'd recommend getting actual screen captures of the above text and transaction info. __________________ AdoptableDomains.com ~~~~~Finding Good Homes for Good Names~~~~~ FuelPrices.mobi - Fish.us - ManhattanNewYork.net - Salesmen.info - SoundSystems.org Dickering.com - JobPlacement.biz - LotteryTickets.ws - Deleted.cc - Names.im - MP3.hn

05-19-2005, 11:07 AM	THREAD STARTER #7 (permalink)
johnn NamePros Expert Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: ENameMart.com Posts: 6,036 Follow @nameintell	The total amount that this guy used from stolen credit card(s) is estimated around $40,000! __________________ HotWebTools.com ENamemart.com - Names For Sale TechSupportBoard.com

05-19-2005, 12:50 PM	#8 (permalink)
IAmAllanShore NamePros Expert Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Esse quam videri Posts: 8,332	johnn, What escrow service was this? -Allan __________________ Something Witty This Way Comes...

05-18-2005, 07:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
vip-ip Account Closed Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: root@localhost Posts: 4,025	I was ripped off like that (not with domain names, though) for $300. If he (the crook) would pay to you directly, PayPal would automatically take the money from your account because the transaction was not covered by Seller's Protection Plan. This sucks, that's how I got ripped off.

05-19-2005, 01:09 PM	#9 (permalink)
RJ NamePros Webmaster Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,930 Follow @DomainBuyer	It's the job (and sole function?) of the escrow company to ensure that you are protected from losing your property in the transfer. Its not unreasonable for you to hold the funds until the name is available to be transferred back, IMHO. I would not want to be in a position where I could be out the domain and the money. Unfortuantely, this is the risk a company takes when they decide to act as an escrow agent. __________________ @DomainBuyer facebook

05-19-2005, 01:33 PM	#10 (permalink)
JMJ Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Nashville Posts: 1,888	I'm not sure about online escrows but this would be the case in the real world RJ. I don't think there is any regulation as there is as far as real estate tranactions are concerned. I would imagine most are just acting as a mediator of sorts and if you have a look into the fine print I'm sure theres alot of legal loopholes favoring them. __________________ DN Sites

05-19-2005, 02:08 PM	THREAD STARTER #11 (permalink)
johnn NamePros Expert Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: ENameMart.com Posts: 6,036 Follow @nameintell	They keep asking me to refund the money and did not keep me up to date on the status. I agreed with RJ that I'll have to hold the money until I get the names back to my account The question would be what is the reasonable time frame that I will give them. This is BAD because even that I have the money but I can't spend it! One week, two weeks or a month? __________________ HotWebTools.com ENamemart.com - Names For Sale TechSupportBoard.com

05-19-2005, 02:11 PM	#12 (permalink)
IAmAllanShore NamePros Expert Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Esse quam videri Posts: 8,332	It would (partly) depend on the price of the sales in question, IMHO. $10,000+ enters a whole new arena. -Allan __________________ Something Witty This Way Comes...

05-20-2005, 01:35 AM	#13 (permalink)
octobus NamePros Regular Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Snow covers the earth Posts: 213	You used Afternic . Better stay away from their "escrow" service

05-20-2005, 10:02 AM	THREAD STARTER #14 (permalink)
johnn NamePros Expert Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: ENameMart.com Posts: 6,036 Follow @nameintell	You got it. The escrow service company is after nic. This is day four since they notified me the incident and I have not received any email as what the status is. All the money has been transferred to my Paypal account. All they sent me from the emails were asking me to refund the money to them. I do not mind to refund the money as long as: 1. They should let me know how long the process is going to be. I can't hold several thousand dollars for a long time. 2. They should inform me the status of what's going on with the names & registrars ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=91258 3. What would happen if I spent all the money? We use escrow service to avoid the risk of scammers and I am not in the position of losing both money and names. This is really bad service. __________________ HotWebTools.com ENamemart.com - Names For Sale TechSupportBoard.com

06-13-2005, 02:54 PM	#15 (permalink)
Genialnames NamePros Regular Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 794	what happened then? __________________ www.genialnames.com Mostly developable Domain Names...because the name says it all! Olympionic.com it's mine, it could be your!

06-13-2005, 03:03 PM	THREAD STARTER #16 (permalink)
johnn NamePros Expert Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: ENameMart.com Posts: 6,036 Follow @nameintell	Afternic is working with the registrars. They did not ask me to refund the money. __________________ HotWebTools.com ENamemart.com - Names For Sale TechSupportBoard.com

06-13-2005, 03:08 PM	#17 (permalink)
Genialnames NamePros Regular Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 794	and what's about your domains? __________________ www.genialnames.com Mostly developable Domain Names...because the name says it all! Olympionic.com it's mine, it could be your!

06-13-2005, 03:11 PM	THREAD STARTER #18 (permalink)
johnn NamePros Expert Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: ENameMart.com Posts: 6,036 Follow @nameintell	They're working with the registrars to get the domain names back. They will own the domains unless they ask me to buy them back from them. __________________ HotWebTools.com ENamemart.com - Names For Sale TechSupportBoard.com

06-13-2005, 03:19 PM	#19 (permalink)
Genialnames NamePros Regular Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 794	??? wait a moment.....my be I have not well understand so.... do you mean that to have back your domains you have to...... pay for them again? __________________ www.genialnames.com Mostly developable Domain Names...because the name says it all! Olympionic.com it's mine, it could be your!

06-13-2005, 03:36 PM	THREAD STARTER #20 (permalink)
johnn NamePros Expert Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: ENameMart.com Posts: 6,036 Follow @nameintell	You need to read the post. Afternic already paid me for the names and then they discovered the buyer used stolen credit card. So as far as I am concerned the names are sold and I received the money. __________________ HotWebTools.com ENamemart.com - Names For Sale TechSupportBoard.com

06-13-2005, 03:54 PM	#21 (permalink)
Genialnames NamePros Regular Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 794	O.K. now it is more clear... Afternic or any whatever other escrow service....the service consist (or at least it should consist) that they receive the "things" from both the parts and they verify that everything it is fine, for that job they ask a fee, they are not involved in no way with the nature of the goods,they act like a third party, a guarantee.... If they have paid you with their money ....I think they have mada a big mistake, in my opinion that's why they don't ask you the money back, and now they, regularly,own the domains themselves (being the original "buyer" a fraud"). ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=91258 He he he I think you played some magic...in other words you just have .....sold domain names to a registrar..... __________________ www.genialnames.com Mostly developable Domain Names...because the name says it all! Olympionic.com it's mine, it could be your!

06-13-2005, 04:23 PM	#23 (permalink)
Joey ^_^ Join Date: May 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 976	Man, CC fraud is such a pain...

06-13-2005, 04:31 PM	#24 (permalink)
Genialnames NamePros Regular Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 794	ya man, frauds in general is such a pain, also a shame! Parasites business IMHO, parasites! __________________ www.genialnames.com Mostly developable Domain Names...because the name says it all! Olympionic.com it's mine, it could be your!

06-13-2005, 06:18 PM	#25 (permalink)
domainSPOTLIGHT NamePros Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 109	I would take the money out of my paypal account asap.

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