Archangel

It’s December: a time of family, warm feelings, and overspending on worthless domains with ridiculous extensions. I have a vision though. Wouldn’t it be great if people didn’t lose money this holiday season--or ever, actually--in the domain industry? I know, I know. It’s too late for some people i.e. everyone who invested in .xxx domains. But I can dream my warped, caffeine-fueled dreams, right? With my articles, I want to help people see the right path. I wanna save domainers money, even if I have to walk the entirety of the earth, preaching door-to-door about how to sell and what to avoid. Ambition is nice. I kinda feel like that Geico lizard albeit over five feet taller and well, not being green.

Alas, I haven’t unlimited resources, thus I can’t buy ten thousand plane tickets. And, let’s be serious: If I showed up at your door, would you answer? Plus, the adage is correct that a person can’t help everyone. But reading my diatribe should make a domainer wiser in some aspect or another.

That said, Santa Archangel is gonna reach into his bag of informative goodness to once again offer you wisdom on what to avoid while tinkering with domains. Get your pencils ready.

2.) Thou shalt not use Paypal™ for large transactions

This is something that I cannot stress enough. For the record: I’m not advising you to never use Paypal. It’s good for small things. Larger transactions, on the other hand, shouldn’t be performed with it. The reason can be summed up in two blood-curdling words: Payment reversals.

Gather around the campfire and listen to my tale: in the early autumn of 2009, I had a domain listed for sale. It was a four-letter .com, aged over ten years. A “drifter” came along with an offer. “I’ll buy this domain from you. Is $200 okay?” I paid two-hundred for it but lost interest in the domain thus making my money back from the purchase was okay with me. “Sure,” I told him via instant messenger. “Send it to my Paypal address.”

This stranger spoke to me while I was readying up the domain push, asking me about other domains I owned that he might have been interested in. The funds were sent; the domain was pushed. We said our goodbyes and parted ways. Shortly afterward, I was notified that I had an email. That email made my entire day bleak. As it turns out, the buyer contacted Paypal, telling them that $200 “mysteriously” disappeared from his account & the money I was sent was never meant to be sent, at all.

I then did as anyone in my situation would have done. I took screen-shots, copied/pasted chat text, and everything else I could think of & sent it to the Powers That Be at Paypal. I had enough evidence to support my claim that the buyer willfully sent me the money. My efforts, though, were for naught, as Paypal sided with the buyer and returned the money to his account. I contacted my domain registrar about the ordeal but they refused to return the domain back to my account, since I willfully pushed it into the other’s account. In the end, I lost $200 plus the domain.

The saddest thing about this? I didn’t have a chance at recovering that $200. Paypal, as you likely know, has seller’s protection. Go to their site and read all about it. Sellers are safe and secure... with the notable exception that funds are only secure when the purchased item is physical. Yes, physical. If you can touch it, taste it, eat it, beat on it to relieve stress--then it’s physical. Domains are not in that spectrum. They exist only in the void of cyberspace and in the minds of the millions who only wished they owned sex.com. “Electronic products/services” are exempt from seller’s protection. I’m telling you right now: If you’re ever unfortunate enough to receive a Paypal payment reversal (sometimes called a chargeback) on a domain, you’ll be screwed.

Paypal will not, under any circumstance in existence, side with you if you’re on the seller’s end of a domain deal. You can submit to them any evidence you have, whether it be screen-shots, chat logs, DNA samples, urine tests--whatever. If a payment reversal is performed, yer outta luck. Do a search on the Almighty Google for “Paypal payment reversals” and you’ll read many other horror stories from people who learned of this the hard way.

Is Paypal safe at all for domains? Quick answer: No. A thing to keep in mind though is that Paypal charges a $15 flat-fee for performing reversals. With that in mind, most scammers will not even consider pulling off a reversal on a $20 sale since once the reversal fee is removed, it’d leave them with a paltry five bucks. Even a $50 sale is generally okay, as a $35 return isn’t anything worth calling home over. For anything larger than $100US, you might want to use a different approach. Moneybookers.com does not offer this loophole, thus making it safer than Paypal. For the safest possible transaction, consider utilizing the service of an Escrow. They can be a little pricey but in the end, you’d be assured of receiving the money (and the buyer would be assured of receiving the domain). Try www.escrow.com or www.eCop.com for large transactions. I’ve used both services and only have good things to say about them. I wish I used one for that $200 sale of EYCC.com but I didn’t. Believe me here: I’m not crying over it. It was a lesson learned for me.

3.) Thou shalt not be disillusioned with Page Rank (PR)

It’s nearly as ubiquitous in the world of cyberspace as remakes and sequels are in Hollywood. We see it in domaining and webmaster forums alike. One site in particular is a daily offender of this travesty. “Buy quality links on a PR5 domain!” one headline screeches to the masses. “Nice PR domains for sale, reasonably priced!” says another. Whether you’re in the business of buying/selling domains or web development, you’ve likely seen such offers. What’s worse is the claims associated with them. “High PR will get you ranked higher on Google!” “PR domains are great for getting traffic!” And on and on and on. I can’t choose a favorite clichéd sales pitch for this type of domain. Each makes me laugh as hard as the variation I’ve read before it. Yes, they are very clichéd. And yes, they are all wrong.

Well, most of them are. Pseudo-SEO (search engine optimization) experts will preach to the choir about how valuable Page Rank, hereafter PR, is for a website. These midnight experts will tell you that PR will give your website a boost in Google and, among other absurdities, are guaranteed to bring an existing site back from the dead. “PR is an indicator of how valuable a website is to Google,” I’ve heard many claim, “and they’ll rank you higher because of it.”

It’s something that everyone seems to debate. In one corner, you have those who see PR having little to no significance in the role of website-indexing. Sitting the other are those PR enthusiasts and their “knowledge” of Google and swear to have some kinda insider knowledge of the inner working that make up the world’s most used search engine. Until Google shows a bit more transparency in its algorithm, many things are open to speculation and, again, debate. Funny as it is, the pro-PR individuals usually aren’t as educated about what they firmly believe in as the skeptics are. The Internet’s full of faulty information--and the sheep that believe it. If it’s stated online, these people seemingly assume it must be true. Of course, it could simply be the case that people like hearing the optimistic things that favor their mentality and shun all else, thus if a person wanted to read that PR is important and they read somewhere that it is, they’re usually happy with that article and stop researching the matter altogether. The misconceptions of what Page Rank is and its purpose are misinterpreted and misreported all the time. People read a forum or an SEO site and believe what they like and denounce the rest. The truth, to them, is what they wanna believe, not necessarily the facts of the matter.

Keeping to the nature of these Commandments, I won’t go into length about what PR is. Let’s take a look at what PR isn’t. For starters, Page Rank isn’t a major factor Google looks at while ranking a domain in its database. I bet the “rank” in Page Rank brought about a more prominent picture to you. Well, the glove’s off. PR has no grand effect with the ranking of your site on Google. I’m sorry if this revelation disappoints you. Furthering the disappointment, PR doesn’t correlate in any way to traffic. It’s perfectly possible for a PR0 domain to receive more organic traffic than a PR4. And to add more crippling weight: PR can be obtained far easier than you might think. PR and inbound links are terribly simple to get. In the case of links, Google is smart enough to establish quality links from trashy ones. Still, getting inbound links isn’t a chore; it’s the quality thing that proves difficult. PR is the opposite: All one needs to do is register a domain, link it to many high-PR websites, and voila! Your hand-reg would receive a PR boost upon Google’s next update. I’ve told people that I could easily register a domain and make it a PR5. “Oh yeah?” I’d then be asked. “Then why don’t ya do it?” The question shouldn’t be why not. It should be: why? There would be nothing to gain or earn at the end of that rainbow but a worthless domain.

(To clear up another misconception: Google does not view a link on a high-PR website as a ‘vote’ of a site’s quality. If you were ever told of this, remove it from a brain-cell. Inbound links are considered “votes” of quality; Page Rank isn’t.)

Worthless? Yes. A high PR means nothing whatsoever if the domain doesn’t have quality content and traffic. Links are the special ingredient to Page Rank, true. But what good is having even a PR8 if its inbound links don’t give it any traffic? I can sense a question coming from the pro-PR crowd: Why is it, then, that some of the highest-ranked sites on Google have a high PR while page five hundred of Google search results is littered with PR0 sites? Everything I’ve been saying is rigmarole and PR will get you ranked high. Correct? Eh, no. These high-ranking websites are where they are based on many factors, namely inbound links. I’ve read somewhere that Google utilizes about two hundred metrics for their indexing. Page Rank is only one factor, one that even Google themselves state isn’t of much importance. (They’ve been known to say that PR is more or less a vanity statistic, one they’ve considered abandoning completely) Long ago, PR might have been the essential thing to have but those days had long since walked the way of the dinosaur.

If I haven’t gotten through to you yet, I suppose it’s time to drop the bombshell on you: Websites themselves do not have Page Rank! Now breathe slowly... compose yourself and refrain from shooting snide remarks until you read the rest of this. Whereas the “rank” part of Page Rank might be a tad misleading, the “page” is accurate. It is a rank of an individual page, not a site as a whole. Presently, namepros.com ranks as a PR5. That doesn’t mean every page in the site is a PR5. This ranking is solely for index.php. A server is set up to request certain files if a directory is requested without a full path to a file specified. Servers by default will attempt to pull up index.html. If index.html doesn’t exist, a server would then scan for index.htm. If that’s absent too, it’ll continue down a list of filenames, displaying the first one that it sees from its list. The server used for the domain namepros.com displays index.php upon typing in the URL, sans a full path. Go ahead. When you type in www.namepros.com you’ll be taken to www.namepros.com/index.php. It is this page that has a PR5. For the sake of argument, if NamePros switched to index.html, the domain--after a Google update--would no longer be a PR5 since the home page would be a different page/file entirely. If this new index.html had a PR0, then the “domain’s” PR would become a zero, too. Page Rank is relevant to a page, not a website as a whole. Going by PR alone, namepros.com would be a tougher sale than it might seem, being a PR5 and all, since if a theoretical new owner used index.html as a homepage, the newer incarnation of NamePros wouldn’t benefit from what very little advantage exists from a high PR.

There are two sides to this coin: Those who invest in PR domains and those who pay actual money to have their URL linked to a website with a high Page Rank. Listen, I hear disillusioned people every day who swear upon how PR domains and PR, in general, is an important factor for the serious businessman. It’s hard to stand by a concept created by a company that doesn’t believe in its own product. Google itself doesn’t believe in Page Rank. Why should you?

I know you were hoping that I’d confirm the significance of Page Rank and give you assurance that your PR domains have value. I don’t find any particular thrills in being the messenger of bad news but for those who invest in PR domains, I had to crush your dreams. You might sulk. A tear or two might be shed. But no one, aside from pseudo-SEO pros, had ever said that truth is a fair or comforting thing. When the dust settles, there are two things about PR I see the most. Some owners of PR domains will link your URL to it, for a fee. And more geared toward domainers, nearly every PR sale attempts to hype thing up with rubbish about the “great investment” it is. For those considering buying links--don’t. Sure, the “domain” might be a high PR thing yet the actual page your link would appear on might be a PR0. You’d be wasting your money. The same, if you’re thinking of buying a PR domain, consider walking away. If you really like the domain, research it. Check for its back-links (a handy tool: http://www.iwebtool.com/backlink_checker) and traffic (ditto on handiness: http://compete.com). A high-traffic, highly linked PR0 would beat a lifeless, traffic-less PR9 any day, value-wise and in usefulness.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/740631-np-newsletter-column-12-2011-ten.html
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=740631

If you don’t understand Page Rank, then you shouldn’t dabble with it. Even if you do though, PR is a feeble investment. Page Rank alone should never be a domain’s only real selling point.


The end is nigh. That Old Man of 2011 soon shall pass the torch to the Baby of 2012. A little kid packing around anything with fire creeps me out but I’m digressing. We’ve all said and done idiotic things this year. Yes, all of us. Even moi. But we all have a chance to rectify things, to make our lives better. If you need a Resolution for the New Year, here’s a good thought: Let’s all be wiser in our dealings--in business and in the real world--and try to make 2012 more productive, profitable, and overall better. Be good to thy neighbor and to thyself. Misbehave and Santa Archangel’s giving you coal and a .name this year, I guarantee. See ya in 2012!

RJ

PayPal gives advantage to the buyer. Services like bank wire and Moneybookers are opposite and more like dealing with cash, where the situation overwhelmingly favor the seller who receives the funds. As a seller I prefer to accept a bank wire because it is unlikely to be reversed. It's less safe for the buyer.

Accepting PayPal always requires a degree of trust with the buyer or a willingness to accept the risk. This is where is value is in trading within a community like NamePros where you can check trader rating histories to establish a positive pattern of behavior. Same as on eBay, they provide the seller feedback feature which makes buyers more comfortable using PayPal even on non-physical items.

Escrow is the way to go on larger transactions as its supposed to reduce the risk for both parties. Escrow.com services are generally reliable (though they tend to favor buyer) and eCop.com is looking like a another good option for only a 2% fee. Small price to pay for the piece of mind.

Dave Zan

Believe it or not, it's recently I've started paying attention to PR. And that's after being online for who knows how long, sheesh.

Still, I looked around and can pretty much verify what you said about PR, OP. Thanks for the shot in the arm.

(And I wondered for a long time "How the heck do I get a high PR"!)

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jason0389

Thank you very much for the informative post. Interesting read regarding the PR.

Earthian

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Archangel

My article deals with what PR isn't, not what it is. The isn't is more important to know than the is IMO. That's why it wasn't discussed. Believe me: I was writing out more for Commandment #3 but had I discussed every issue, as I was contemplating, it'd have been a 5,000 word article, easily. So I focused on the misconceptions more.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=740631

spline

Really good post!
As for payment. I would say that Bitcoins solves this somewhat,
but instead put the risc on the buyer.

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Earthian

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domainbeast36

Being a "noob" in this business, this was a great read. thanks

allala

the author of this thread is probably not familiar with paypal masspay . It's been there for years and is a sure way to eliminate chargebacks.

mis_chiff

He is aware of it
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=740631
Problem with the masspay though IMHO are the fees, they are ridiculous.
The higher the sale the more money they take, then the exchange
rate [don't get me started on that, paypal has their "own math formula".]

I'd be thinking either escrow or ecop as suggested might be the best
economical route...not sure what their fee structure is.

Archangel

You need to read the page a lot better than you had. Read the very bottom of the post:

So I'm assuming nothing whatsoever stated on the page is to be taken seriously.

Even if it was serious, it's pretty much dated 2002. It isn't relevant to today.



---------- Post added at 01:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 PM ----------

Glad I could help Keep watching. Here are 2 and I wrote one last month. 7 'commandments' to go

Earthian

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stub

@mis_chiff I haven't checked recently, but I thought masspay was a flat fee of $1?

@allala I have read of several instances recently of domainers losing their masspay priviledges, for using this service inappropriately.

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Archangel

Actually, I saw the url last night and got to thinking, "He can't be serious..." I didn't reread it til today and just now saw your white text. lol It's cool. I honestly didn't see your joking intent until just now I have an eye for detail, huh? lol
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=740631

mis_chiff

@stub - it's been quite a while for me too but I recall a $3 charge on very low $$$

Maybe there was/is a minimum? I just remember I wasn't impressed and decided against using them.

Earthian

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Archangel

This will sound embarrassing but as I was tired as hell when I first saw your post, I saw the Pigeon thing and ACTUALLY GOOGLED it, trying to think of what it was. lol I didn't get a reply to queries like "difference between pigeon rank and page rank." So I ignored it til today. I reread through the link (all of it this time) and realized that it couldn't be real

alien51

Good for you. As for me, i think i'm getting blind to links. Just as i am getting totally blind to Ads. What is wrong with me? Am i entering a certain phase in the Darwinian internet evolution?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=740631

Regarding paypal fees or escrow fees: Can't you just add it in the price of the domain? After all, most domain pricing are close to being arbitrary in nature. So i'm not sure whether a $3 or $20 "inclusion" on the price tag can break a deal.

In fact, i think you don't even need to tell a buyer that the sale price you quoted is already "inclusive" of escrow fees. A $200 domain, becomes $220. So the net effect, the buyer won't need to pay escrow fees. It's just a psychological thing.

Archangel

It's against Paypal's terms to charge buyers a Paypal fee but it's perfectly okay if you simply up the price of you sale ie Don't say "$100 plus Paypal fee." You'd just say "$103 selling price" or similar. That's not charging a PP fee. It's just asking a bit more for your domain.

alien51

Exactly.

That's why telemarketers don't price their merchandise as $100. They say it's $99.95. And your brain would say, 'Wow, that's less than a 100 bucks. It's a bargain!'
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=740631

It's just accounting psychology. Especially that domain pricing is not under any kind of regulation that you need to break down the costs.

showers

Is there a reason that you wouldn't tell us the domain that you lost? If that b****** did that to you, then his other online dealings are likely to be shonky too. I'd like to avoid him! What was it? We could help spread it around?

Archangel

Whose domain are you referring to?

showers

Okay... so I'm now properly awake. You did include the domain!
Note that it is up for sale... and he accepts PayPal up to $200!
Maybe it's time to get it back.

---------- Post added at 12:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 AM ----------

The domain in "You Shall Not Use Paypal For Large Transactions"

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Archangel

I could probably find the screenshots I took if I looked hard enough.

But as I said, there is no way for me to get it back. So I just look at this as a lesson learned.