Trying to understand sales at Afternic

geoffe · 01-08-2005, 07:47 AM

I love tracking the names sold like many of us do but man there are some that I am sure would barely get attention in here in the Appraisals section.

WomensHealthAndFitness.com* 800.00 thats 22 characters!
spyhaus.com* 4,000.00
DiscountedPerfume.com* 3,500.00
QQ10.com* 3,000.00

These are just a few this week that tickled me. Makes me feel pretty good about some of my names.

IAmAllanShore · 01-08-2005, 09:08 AM

Not to be a cynic, but don't forget that the same as eBay, just because it "sells" for that much, doesn't mean someone was really willing to pay that much for it or that the "bought" it for that much.

-Allan

dgridley · 01-08-2005, 09:19 AM

I have a feeling many domain sales are faked in one way or another, either for traffic or publicity.

Originally Posted by geoffe

I love tracking the names sold like many of us do but man there are some that I am sure would barely get attention in here in the Appraisals section.

WomensHealthAndFitness.com* 800.00 thats 22 characters!
spyhaus.com* 4,000.00
DiscountedPerfume.com* 3,500.00
QQ10.com* 3,000.00

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/63893-trying-to-understand-sales-at-afternic.html
These are just a few this week that tickled me. Makes me feel pretty good about some of my names.

domain.addict · 01-08-2005, 10:09 AM

More and more, I've heard of some of Afternic's sales as being bogus.

BatRastard · 01-08-2005, 11:59 AM

I have been saying for a long time that AN is a scam. I have never seen a 'sale' that I can verify. They made that big scam about engineering.org 'sale' which really wasnt a true sale. They took paid memberships under the 'old' owner group up to the hour before they announced the 'old' AN was shutting down. The 'new' group' said they 'bought everything but the rights to memberships' so they 'legally could not honor' the paid memberships. The 'new' owner group is (for lack of better term) directly assoicated with the 'old' group. Bottom line is that AN is a bunch of rip off artists and not a single sale of any substance has ever occured there.

Thats my take on the situation anyway and Im sticking to it.

billinchina · 01-08-2005, 09:15 PM

Most of our sales are legit. If someone wants a name, they'll pay alot for it. I would say that $10,000 is the special number that buyers won't pay more than unless the name is truly worth it. Less than $10,000 and they'll probably buy it if they want it bad enough (even if most domainers would consider it junk). The new group is not affiliated with the old group and does not consist of anyone from the old group. We are helping lots of members sell domains and are having fun doing so.

dgridley · 01-08-2005, 09:40 PM

Well, I'm not singling Afternic itself out specifically, or even generally.. just that many of the big domain sales you see seem suspicious to say the least.

Originally Posted by domain.addict

More and more, I've heard of some of Afternic's sales as being bogus.

snoop · 01-08-2005, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by billinchina

Most of our sales are legit.

most? that is a pretty sad thing to admit,

my advice is stop showing names as sold before they have been paid for- just like every other brokerage, otherwise the embarrassment can only continue.

geoffe · 01-09-2005, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by snoop

most? that is a pretty sad thing to admit,

my advice is stop showing names as sold before they have been paid for- just like every other brokerage, otherwise the embarrassment can only continue.

Yes. I assume that the price posted on Afternic IS the final price paid. Now I am beginning to think it is propaganda to encourage parking and paying the membership fee to list.

BatRastard · 01-09-2005, 03:13 PM

I stand by what I said earlier. The 'sale' of afternic to the 'new' group was shady at best. The sale of names there is totally bogus. Watch the whois data for names pending sale and follow it for months after the sale and see what happens. Also look at the site the name resolves to. Just a couple of things to observe. I for one wouldn't give a penny to any site that makes you pay just to become a 'member' or to list names. As I recall I was severely chastised by one AN member when I gave an honest opinion of a name value (referred to by others as an appraisal) saying that the people who appraised a name at really high values helped make it worth that. (I wont go into the full 'logic', if you cant see how stupid that is just on that then there is no point.) Bottom line is that AN is at BEST a shady fly by night operation that encourages 'members' to post stupid opinions of name value and plays on the ignorance of those who are getting into the domain name game based on what they read at such sites.

equity78 · 01-09-2005, 03:31 PM

Bill you should address this more Becasue Bat has really made me think this is a shady operation and others I have emailed this post to all who have accounts with Afternic.

WebForging · 01-09-2005, 05:15 PM

Bill, I was pleased to see your post and disappointed to see *most* like others here. Please do rebut the statements objectively because a lot of people here, like me, have a few or a few dozen or a few hundred domains to play with. I won't be doing AN till I see a consensus here that makes me comfortable trying it.

AdoptableDomains · 01-09-2005, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by BatRastard

The sale of names there is totally bogus.

I sell a few a year there, although nothing in the huge figure category, usually in the $25-800 range. Nothing bogus about the payments I've received. I"ve actually sold more on AN than at sedo.

Quote:

Watch the whois data for names pending sale and follow it for months after the sale and see what happens. Also look at the site the name resolves to. Just a couple of things to observe.

There could be some shill bidders with different screen names. It does only cost $1.00 bo open a new buyer account and bid. Every online auction type site has potential shill bidders, from ebay, to forums like this one. They should all try to stop it, but no one will successful all the time. I've had sales agreements at vaious sites a few times and had the buyer back out and never pay.

Quote:

I for one wouldn't give a penny to any site that makes you pay just to become a 'member' or to list names.

I dont' mind paying the small membership fee if it helps deter fake memberships. It would be nice if they applied the membership fee to your first closing so that in effect there would be no fee as long as you actually sold something. If you can't afford $10 a year, you shouldn't be in the domain business.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=63893

Personally, I think bidders should have to pay a down payment fee of maybe $25 or 10% of the offer for every bid. If they back out, they lose it and it's split by AN and the seller. If they win, it's applied as a down payment, if the seller doesn't accept, it's returned within 7 days. This would be a deterrent to shill bidding.

Quote:

As I recall I was severely chastised by one AN member when I gave an honest opinion of a name value (referred to by others as an appraisal) saying that the people who appraised a name at really high values helped make it worth that. (I wont go into the full 'logic', if you cant see how stupid that is just on that then there is no point.)

That sounds like the old AN. there are no so called peer apraisals there any more. Yes, I agree the old AN was out of control and like putting the criminals in charge of a prison. I haven't seen that since the former owners sold it. Yes, there was peer pressure at the old AN to appraise everything high to make it look like every domain was worth at least 5 figures. That died with the dot-com bust about 4 years ago.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=63893

Quote:

Bottom line is that AN is at BEST a shady fly by night operation that encourages 'members' to post stupid opinions of name value and plays on the ignorance of those who are getting into the domain name game based on what they read at such sites.

Apparently you've been out of the domain arena for a couple years. members haven't posted appraisals for a couple years now, and not at all with the new operators. It's not run much differently than sedo. I think it's a lot more reputable than it was when it was owned by register.com

equity78 · 01-09-2005, 08:50 PM

FRIENDS.net Auction

SOLD!

Auction ID: Z14060
Note spelling: FRIENDS.NET / friends.net
Headline:
Seller: benhbs (feedback: 0)
Description:
you are bidding on fríends.net very valuable domain name only, not with developed site get lots of traffic and make lots of $ i have to sell this domain name because I need its money asap. happy bidding.
Starting price: 200.00
Final price: 200.00
Category: People / Relationships
Escrow/Payment Options: PayPal
Bank wire transfer
Winner: GaryRohland

billinchina · 01-09-2005, 09:15 PM

Thank you AdoptableDomains for your detailed post.

When an auction ends in a sale, it is immediately sent to the recent sales list on the home page (and the price you see is the price the buyer will pay). We charge a nominal $1 buyer membership fee to discourage shill bidding and suspend members that fail to pay for a name. This system works pretty good but not perfect (who is perfect?).

From what I've been told since I started working for Afternic a little more than a year ago, the original owners of Afternic sold it to Register.com in the dot com boom days of the Internet. When Register.com (located in New York) was going to get rid of it because it was unprofitable for them, Roger Collins (located in Florida) decided to buy the name and trademark and changed the name of his existing auction site at the time to Afternic.

We handle more name transactions than we post on the recent sales list (since some people request us to hide their sales). If you would like to test us, then do it objectively. Make a list of all the names on the recent sales list at the end of the day and the current whois info. Then, check back in 3 months and see how many are the same. Collect several days of data... Escrow transactions can take a day or two if you're lucky, or months if a problem arises. Sometimes buyers have no clue about domains and it takes a while to walk them through the process. Sometimes a person goes on vacation and doesn't respond for a month. Oftentimes it takes a while to collect and clear checks.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=63893

We are constantly trying to improve Afternic and sales are going up and so are ppc payments. The small membership fee helps cover support costs. We are working to get your names listed in registrar sites (where people usually go first when they want a name that you own). It makes sense to list your names for sale in as many outlets as possible for maximum exposure. The more names you have, the more important this becomes.

snoop · 01-09-2005, 09:20 PM

There is little doubt that many of the sales at afternic are legitimate, have bought through them myself, the comments that generalize that all sales are bogus is pretty far fetched. The problem is simply afternic listing as sold names that haven't been paid for yet, combined with some problems relating to people listing names they do not own - most others have a process to verify listings.

billinchina · 01-09-2005, 09:23 PM

equity78 posted a Bazaar Sale.

The link to the Bazaar Sale is here:
http://bazaar.afternic.com/aucSold.php?id=14060

Notice that in the description the seller spelled fríends.net as an IDN. We recently converted the main site (Afternic.com) to support IDN listings. However, we are in the process of converting the Bazaar to support IDN listings. In the meantime, we cannot enforce IDN sales on the Bazaar because innocent people bid on them assuming they are alphanumeric dot coms, not knowing what an IDN is.

We're sorry for this temporary inconvenience.

snoop · 01-09-2005, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by billinchina

When an auction ends in a sale, it is immediately sent to the recent sales list on the home page (and the price you see is the price the buyer will pay).

that is the problem, who else reports sale before it has been paid for?

As we know "the price you see" is all too often not "the price the buyer will pay" - ie the buyer doesn't pay for the name or the listing was bogus.

sharapov · 02-24-2005, 11:51 AM

Yes, Aftrenic cannot delete all fake bids.

01-08-2005, 07:47 AM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
geoffe NamePros Regular Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 516	Trying to understand sales at Afternic I love tracking the names sold like many of us do but man there are some that I am sure would barely get attention in here in the Appraisals section. WomensHealthAndFitness.com* 800.00 thats 22 characters! spyhaus.com* 4,000.00 DiscountedPerfume.com* 3,500.00 QQ10.com* 3,000.00 These are just a few this week that tickled me. Makes me feel pretty good about some of my names. __________________ :camera: NEWSFLASH: Under construction...

01-08-2005, 09:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
IAmAllanShore NamePros Expert Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Esse quam videri Posts: 8,316	Not to be a cynic, but don't forget that the same as eBay, just because it "sells" for that much, doesn't mean someone was really willing to pay that much for it or that the "bought" it for that much. -Allan __________________ Something Witty This Way Comes...

01-08-2005, 10:09 AM	#4 (permalink)
domain.addict Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: My Imagination Posts: 1,628	More and more, I've heard of some of Afternic's sales as being bogus. __________________ iPhone game reviews

01-08-2005, 09:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
billinchina General Bill Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 878	Most of our sales are legit. If someone wants a name, they'll pay alot for it. I would say that $10,000 is the special number that buyers won't pay more than unless the name is truly worth it. Less than $10,000 and they'll probably buy it if they want it bad enough (even if most domainers would consider it junk). The new group is not affiliated with the old group and does not consist of anyone from the old group. We are helping lots of members sell domains and are having fun doing so. __________________ A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold. Proverbs 22:1

01-09-2005, 05:15 PM	#12 (permalink)
WebForging Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sussex, Wisconsin - The Badger State - Home of http://www.theBubbler.com with Free Classifieds for Wisconsinites Posts: 2,378	Clear it up Bill, I was pleased to see your post and disappointed to see most like others here. Please do rebut the statements objectively because a lot of people here, like me, have a few or a few dozen or a few hundred domains to play with. I won't be doing AN till I see a consensus here that makes me comfortable trying it. __________________ Your link stays 21 days or till you get out-posted at WebLoggers.ORG, a forum for, by and about bloggers and their blogs - revenue info, blog reviews, free resources, etc. - WebLoggers.ORG - YOUR LINK at the very top of WebLoggers.ORG - automatic, (like 'WebLoggers' link there now) Top 8 posters with min. 5 posts. 1,800 uniques/month, rising fast.

	LeadRefs	Forum Sponsorship
	Want to sell your domain? LeadRefs.com finds multiple potential buyers to contact instantly!

01-08-2005, 11:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
BatRastard NamePros Regular Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Earth Posts: 474	I have been saying for a long time that AN is a scam. I have never seen a 'sale' that I can verify. They made that big scam about engineering.org 'sale' which really wasnt a true sale. They took paid memberships under the 'old' owner group up to the hour before they announced the 'old' AN was shutting down. The 'new' group' said they 'bought everything but the rights to memberships' so they 'legally could not honor' the paid memberships. The 'new' owner group is (for lack of better term) directly assoicated with the 'old' group. Bottom line is that AN is a bunch of rip off artists and not a single sale of any substance has ever occured there. Thats my take on the situation anyway and Im sticking to it.

01-09-2005, 03:13 PM	#10 (permalink)
BatRastard NamePros Regular Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Earth Posts: 474	I stand by what I said earlier. The 'sale' of afternic to the 'new' group was shady at best. The sale of names there is totally bogus. Watch the whois data for names pending sale and follow it for months after the sale and see what happens. Also look at the site the name resolves to. Just a couple of things to observe. I for one wouldn't give a penny to any site that makes you pay just to become a 'member' or to list names. As I recall I was severely chastised by one AN member when I gave an honest opinion of a name value (referred to by others as an appraisal) saying that the people who appraised a name at really high values helped make it worth that. (I wont go into the full 'logic', if you cant see how stupid that is just on that then there is no point.) Bottom line is that AN is at BEST a shady fly by night operation that encourages 'members' to post stupid opinions of name value and plays on the ignorance of those who are getting into the domain name game based on what they read at such sites.

01-09-2005, 03:31 PM	#11 (permalink)
equity78 NamePros Expert Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 7,639	Bill you should address this more Becasue Bat has really made me think this is a shady operation and others I have emailed this post to all who have accounts with Afternic.

01-09-2005, 08:50 PM	#14 (permalink)
equity78 NamePros Expert Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 7,639	FRIENDS.net Auction SOLD! Auction ID: Z14060 Note spelling: FRIENDS.NET / friends.net Headline: Seller: benhbs (feedback: 0) Description: you are bidding on fríends.net very valuable domain name only, not with developed site get lots of traffic and make lots of $ i have to sell this domain name because I need its money asap. happy bidding. Starting price: 200.00 Final price: 200.00 Category: People / Relationships Escrow/Payment Options: PayPal Bank wire transfer Winner: GaryRohland

01-09-2005, 09:15 PM	#15 (permalink)
billinchina General Bill Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 878	Thank you AdoptableDomains for your detailed post. When an auction ends in a sale, it is immediately sent to the recent sales list on the home page (and the price you see is the price the buyer will pay). We charge a nominal $1 buyer membership fee to discourage shill bidding and suspend members that fail to pay for a name. This system works pretty good but not perfect (who is perfect?). From what I've been told since I started working for Afternic a little more than a year ago, the original owners of Afternic sold it to Register.com in the dot com boom days of the Internet. When Register.com (located in New York) was going to get rid of it because it was unprofitable for them, Roger Collins (located in Florida) decided to buy the name and trademark and changed the name of his existing auction site at the time to Afternic. We handle more name transactions than we post on the recent sales list (since some people request us to hide their sales). If you would like to test us, then do it objectively. Make a list of all the names on the recent sales list at the end of the day and the current whois info. Then, check back in 3 months and see how many are the same. Collect several days of data... Escrow transactions can take a day or two if you're lucky, or months if a problem arises. Sometimes buyers have no clue about domains and it takes a while to walk them through the process. Sometimes a person goes on vacation and doesn't respond for a month. Oftentimes it takes a while to collect and clear checks. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=63893 We are constantly trying to improve Afternic and sales are going up and so are ppc payments. The small membership fee helps cover support costs. We are working to get your names listed in registrar sites (where people usually go first when they want a name that you own). It makes sense to list your names for sale in as many outlets as possible for maximum exposure. The more names you have, the more important this becomes. __________________ A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold. Proverbs 22:1 Last edited by billinchina; 01-09-2005 at 10:36 PM.

01-09-2005, 09:20 PM	#16 (permalink)
snoop New User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,986	There is little doubt that many of the sales at afternic are legitimate, have bought through them myself, the comments that generalize that all sales are bogus is pretty far fetched. The problem is simply afternic listing as sold names that haven't been paid for yet, combined with some problems relating to people listing names they do not own - most others have a process to verify listings.

01-09-2005, 09:23 PM	#17 (permalink)
billinchina General Bill Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 878	equity78 posted a Bazaar Sale. The link to the Bazaar Sale is here: http://bazaar.afternic.com/aucSold.php?id=14060 Notice that in the description the seller spelled fríends.net as an IDN. We recently converted the main site (Afternic.com) to support IDN listings. However, we are in the process of converting the Bazaar to support IDN listings. In the meantime, we cannot enforce IDN sales on the Bazaar because innocent people bid on them assuming they are alphanumeric dot coms, not knowing what an IDN is. We're sorry for this temporary inconvenience. __________________ A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold. Proverbs 22:1

02-24-2005, 11:51 AM	#19 (permalink)
sharapov Account Suspended Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 29	Yes, Aftrenic cannot delete all fake bids.

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Trying to understand sales at Afternic

Clear it up