Domain Pricing Fantasy Land

mhdoc · 01-24-2010, 10:58 AM

I have never shopped for domains at any of the large sales organizations sites, but this morning was researching a name for a possible collectibles mini site. The dot com is taken, of course, but says it is available at buydomains.com. So I give them a call and the friendly lady who eventually answers tells me all their domains have a $1,000 minimum and the one I am looking at would be $2,300. She hung up quickly when I started laughing.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/635919-domain-pricing-fantasy-land.html

I doubt there will ever be more than two or three end users who might be interested in the domain. I have several mini sites built around similar domains and they make $60-90 per YEAR. That's OK IMHO for a "fire and forget" mini site, but makes no sense at all $2,300.

I think there is still a lot of fluff in the domain speculation market.

ericpkearns · 01-24-2010, 11:35 AM

in any speculative market there will always be people like this...i would watch the domain for a future drop, as we both know she'll never sell it based on the info you provided. anyone who has stuck it out in the domain industry long enough to get a clue remembers their early days when they thought every name they registered was gold just because it "sounded good"...you should email her the google keyword tool link along with a message like "for educational purposes". There's an antique dealer down the road that marks all their old baseball cards at 150% of book value regardless of condition, and not surprisingly, their inventory hasn't changed in years. Some people are too attached to the fantasy world of what they want to believe their commodities are worth to ever face reality. The lottery ticket mentality.

garptrader · 01-24-2010, 11:38 AM

The domain sales pros generally recommend forgetting about DNJournal pricing and focusing on the $XXX sales range which is still a nice ROI for a backorder or reg fee domain.

Yes, most domain sales sites I have seen either have "make offer" or four figures for so-so domains and five figures for the good ones. Afternic & SEDO periodically report median sales prices well below that range. Personally I have never had an offer over $1500 so why price a large portion of my portfolio higher?

***Corey*** · 01-24-2010, 12:07 PM

is the name available in other extensions?

Cheers
Corey

namewaiter · 01-24-2010, 12:48 PM

yea, i'd hate to be like buydomains and have a business model that produces millions in profit each year

mhdoc · 01-24-2010, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by coreyg

is the name available in other extensions?

Yes. Dot com is the buydomains parking page. The dot net has a VERY simple little site by a collector who clearly knows little about site building.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=635919

In the interest of encouraging discussion the name is HopiPottery

We have collected a dozen pieces over the years which is enough to make a nice little site with pictures and descriptions of each one and some ebay links.

---------- Post added at 01:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 PM ----------

Originally Posted by namewaiter

yea, i'd hate to be like buydomains and have a business model that produces millions in profit each year

My comments were directed at the folks with unrealistic pricing on their speculative domains. Buydomains success was not really the point.

Domainace · 01-24-2010, 01:17 PM

I'm with you on unrealistic pricing from dreamers, buy the example of buydomains.com throws the topic off. I'm sure they have their metrics, and I'm sure many of their names are overpriced (as they can't be looking all that closely at such a large inventory). Presumably, they eventually get dropped. There are holes in buydomains organization, too, despite their profits.

The pricing of domains has been a matter of perception (at least until recently). A big company can get away with silly-pricing quite often. There are plenty of gullible people impressed by a good presentation. Meanwhile, slacker Joe in Cincinnati thinks he pull of the same deal on Ebay. Nope.

When I run into these guys, I just watch the name and wait for a firesale or a drop. In this economy, the wait shouldn't be too long.

-db- · 01-24-2010, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Domain Pricing Fantasy Land

Hehe... "fantasy land".

I'd say the majority of domainers still live on that land, or at least vacation there.

**RicoShay** · 01-24-2010, 05:14 PM

I think at some point or other, we've all been guilty of over-pricing some of our inventory. I agree, some are just ridiculous "fantasies" but in some cases I'd say pricing is based on experience, personal circumstances/need etc.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=635919

Everyone has their own business models, they over-price, under-price, try new things etc. but I don't think there are any set-in-stone pricing rules/guides you can follow in this business. Maybe just the basic... price in $xxx range for quicker sales.

One thing I've personally learned is that holding onto certain "favorite" domains - waiting for the "big" offers, can be bad for business because having a few hundred of these adds quite a big renewal bill each year. Tis' all about balance imo.

Domagon · 01-24-2010, 07:17 PM

$2300 price seems high, but then a domain is worth whatever someone else is willing to pay.

Try bidding on it at Afternic - the opening bid for it there is currently $700.

Alternatively, have your credit card ready and call them back during normal business hours (more options in regards to speaking with a supervisor, etc if need be) and see what they will accept for you to buy it on the spot.

Ron

***SpareDomains*** · 01-24-2010, 08:06 PM

A domain is worth what you are willing to pay for it or what the seller is willing to let it go at. If no sale occurs on that domain in some time I would think the price would drop in the future. I have gotten domains for 50% off from the listed price from some of the big markets as most are willing to negotiate. There are sellers that flip hundreds or thousands of domains a year for small profits and there are sellers that only need to sell a small percentage because they only sell to end users at much higher returns. Personally I focus on end users as selling a handful of domains a year and making the same income as flipping thousands is less work. Your inventory would need to be quality to be able to price like that though and without knowing the exact domain hard to say if they are too high or not. If your goal is turn it into a mini site I would say you're not the perfect end user they are looking for but I think you could still negotiate with them but laughing at someone I think anyone would hang up on you.

bmugford · 01-24-2010, 08:13 PM

Look on eBay. That is domain pricing fantasy land.

I am not sure of the exact domain here, but in general asking $2K for a product related .COM (even a niche one), is not fantasy land to the right end user.

Brad

mhdoc · 01-24-2010, 08:46 PM

I remember from my statistics class many years ago that a Poisson distribution described events that were random and rare. I think that probably fits nicely with domain sales.

I'm certainly not the end user domainers are looking for. I build little sites on subjects which interest me. Search is the only way anyone will find them. So, I will use whatever tld is available and hyphens as needed to get a keyword domain that matches the subject. But whatever I can get for reg fee is good enough.

If I had big plans that wouldn't work of course. Thanks for the responses.

wwwweb · 01-24-2010, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by mhdoc

I have never shopped for domains at any of the large sales organizations sites, but this morning was researching a name for a possible collectibles mini site. The dot com is taken, of course, but says it is available at buydomains.com. So I give them a call and the friendly lady who eventually answers tells me all their domains have a $1,000 minimum and the one I am looking at would be $2,300. She hung up quickly when I started laughing.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=635919

I doubt there will ever be more than two or three end users who might be interested in the domain. I have several mini sites built around similar domains and they make $60-90 per YEAR. That's OK IMHO for a "fire and forget" mini site, but makes no sense at all $2,300.

I think there is still a lot of fluff in the domain speculation market.

Domains are proven to be real assets and when utilized properly they are a great marketing, sales, and employee for any business to have, gone are the days people would spend thousands with marketing companies, why should they not carry value like any other service, $2K is not a lot of money for niche products or end user services. I agree some of the domains on that site are pretty pricey, but the reseller domainer who is building a minisite is not that their target sales audience, so you will most likely have to do with a lesser extension, I am not sure how many hundreds of thousands of domains they own, but they have a lock in many niche areas when it comes to .com.

funpage · 01-25-2010, 03:42 AM

That's simply not true, I've bought names for below $500 from them before.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=635919

Originally Posted by mhdoc

So I give them a call and the friendly lady who eventually answers tells me all their domains have a $1,000 minimum and the one I am looking at would be $2,300.

snoop · 01-25-2010, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by mhdoc

I have never shopped for domains at any of the large sales organizations sites, but this morning was researching a name for a possible collectibles mini site. The dot com is taken, of course, but says it is available at buydomains.com. So I give them a call and the friendly lady who eventually answers tells me all their domains have a $1,000 minimum and the one I am looking at would be $2,300. She hung up quickly when I started laughing.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=635919

I doubt there will ever be more than two or three end users who might be interested in the domain. I have several mini sites built around similar domains and they make $60-90 per YEAR. That's OK IMHO for a "fire and forget" mini site, but makes no sense at all $2,300.

I think there is still a lot of fluff in the domain speculation market.

Their business model is to sell small %'s of domains for fairly high prices, mainly to SME's.

If your business plan involves developing a site that will make $60-$90 per year then you should be looking at available domain names, not already registered names, it is probably a waste of time contacting any domain owner.

Manga · 01-25-2010, 04:20 AM

$2,300 is not even close to fantasy land. Large companies think nothing of spending $2k, $5k, $10k etc. per month on marketing campaigns. $2,300 to obtain the keyword domain in a niche they are targeting is peanuts and wouldn't even raise an eyebrow. As has already been said, this price is for end users, not other domainers.

DomainTalker · 01-25-2010, 04:36 AM

Originally Posted by mhdoc

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=635919
In the interest of encouraging discussion the name is HopiPottery

The domain, HopiPottery.com, will have a very thin end user market, I'd say. Pretty specialised - and, maybe, not huge volumes?

The OP IS the end user market for this domain - He wants to put up a site specialising in Hopi pottery, to reach people that are looking for precisely that....

If the OP - as the end user buyer - says the domain is overpriced at $2300, then the market is speaking...

mhdoc...Go back and make them an offer......Tell 'em you ARE the end user their looking for.....and, that's your offer, CASH, NOW....take it, or, leave it. I'd say with that name they won't have many other buyers (if any)...You'll prob get it at a reasonable price.

.

mhdoc · 01-25-2010, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by DomainTalker

The domain, HopiPottery.com, will have a very thin end user market, I'd say. Pretty specialised - and, maybe, not huge volumes?

mhdoc...Go back and make them an offer......Tell 'em you ARE the end user their looking for.....and, that's your offer, CASH, NOW....take it, or, leave it. I'd say with that name they won't have many other buyers (if any)...You'll prob get it at a reasonable price.

.

Hopi pottery is incredibly specialized. There might be 25 active potters and there are NO individuals or businesses that make their living solely from buying/selling it.

Much of the value of a pot is determined by the name of the potter/artist who made it and most are signed on the bottom. If an individual artist plans to develop a website they would use their name, not the word Hopi.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=635919

Just for fun I checked Nampeyo.com and NampeyoPottery.com. That's one of the two most famous family names in Hopi pottery and both are registered and display parking pages. From the ads I saw they won't get any clicks from anyone actually looking for Hopi pottery.

Notice that if you do a Google search for Hopi Pottery without quotes HopiPottery.net comes up first. It's a very simple site but comes in first I think because of the exact match with the search phrase. (It's not my site.)

I appreciate the thoughts about making an offer but as a developer it isn't worth the effort. The dot org and dot us are both available and would do as well. I can register a dot us for $7 so for $100 I could pick 14 dot us or dot org domains that cover every aspect of Hopi pottery. Registration fee non dot com's get me the most bang for the buck.

It's obvious many of the would be domainers who post on namepros don't understand this. Concepts like branding and large advertising budgets certainly apply in some cases but that logic is not universally applicable.

Spade · 01-25-2010, 06:32 AM

Id hate to say this, but its not "fantasy land" when you sell as many domains at those kinds of prices. Bottom line, you may not sell every domain name, but there is a buyer out there at some point or another who will likely be willing to shell out that kind of money. What happens if Hopi Pottery becomes the latest hollywood craze? Would the domain be worth it then? Keep in mind - It COULD happen.

mhdoc · 01-25-2010, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by Spade

What happens if Hopi Pottery becomes the latest hollywood craze? Would the domain be worth it then? Keep in mind - It COULD happen.

It certainly does. Every once in a while I will look up a key phrase and find search numbers that are way out of line. For example, the Red Hot Chili Peppers band really messes up search results for someone trying to work with hot food related subjects.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=635919

It certainly makes all this an interesting game

gazzip · 01-25-2010, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Spade

Id hate to say this, but its not "fantasy land" when you sell as many domains at those kinds of prices. Bottom line, you may not sell every domain name, but there is a buyer out there at some point or another who will likely be willing to shell out that kind of money. What happens if Hopi Pottery becomes the latest hollywood craze? Would the domain be worth it then? Keep in mind - It COULD happen.

Very true, not every domainer is playing the same game of quick flipping all their names, a few of my domains were bought at reg fee when there was barely fifty results in google for the exact term, a year later and one i just checked has 30,000 results for the same term now.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=635919

Another one went from about 50 to 95,500 results in about 3 months because someone launched a very big event by the same name

$9 per year for 10 years is only $90..... Holding is a gamble some people are willing to take

I know it sucks when someones sitting on a name you'd really like to develop but it happens to most of us....even domainers !

.

*nrmillions* · 01-25-2010, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by mhdoc

I have never shopped for domains at any of the large sales organizations sites, but this morning was researching a name for a possible collectibles mini site. The dot com is taken, of course, but says it is available at buydomains.com. So I give them a call and the friendly lady who eventually answers tells me all their domains have a $1,000 minimum and the one I am looking at would be $2,300. She hung up quickly when I started laughing.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=635919

I doubt there will ever be more than two or three end users who might be interested in the domain. I have several mini sites built around similar domains and they make $60-90 per YEAR. That's OK IMHO for a "fire and forget" mini site, but makes no sense at all $2,300.

I think there is still a lot of fluff in the domain speculation market.

how is $2,300 for a .com fantasy land? just because you dont want to spend more than regfee to buy the name?

mhdoc · 01-25-2010, 07:44 PM

$2,300 for some dot coms makes lots of sense. $2,300 for HopiPottery.com is a fantasy. I think the differential for a dot com vs other tlds gets very small at the micro niche level.

bmugford · 01-25-2010, 08:07 PM

The term "Hopi Pottery" shows an average of 2400 Exact Google searches per month. Last month it had 5400.

$2300 is not unreasonable for a clear use product related .COM like that. Plus that is their asking price, I am sure they would take a lower offer. I have sold terms with less than 1/2 of that search volume for Mid $X,XXX in the past.

BuyDomains.com market is end users, not mini site makers. Just a quick Google search shows many likely end users for that domain.

Brad

01-24-2010, 10:58 AM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
mhdoc Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,132	Domain Pricing Fantasy Land I have never shopped for domains at any of the large sales organizations sites, but this morning was researching a name for a possible collectibles mini site. The dot com is taken, of course, but says it is available at buydomains.com. So I give them a call and the friendly lady who eventually answers tells me all their domains have a $1,000 minimum and the one I am looking at would be $2,300. She hung up quickly when I started laughing. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/635919-domain-pricing-fantasy-land.html I doubt there will ever be more than two or three end users who might be interested in the domain. I have several mini sites built around similar domains and they make $60-90 per YEAR. That's OK IMHO for a "fire and forget" mini site, but makes no sense at all $2,300. I think there is still a lot of fluff in the domain speculation market.

01-24-2010, 11:38 AM	#3 (permalink)
garptrader NamePros Regular Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 857	The domain sales pros generally recommend forgetting about DNJournal pricing and focusing on the $XXX sales range which is still a nice ROI for a backorder or reg fee domain. Yes, most domain sales sites I have seen either have "make offer" or four figures for so-so domains and five figures for the good ones. Afternic & SEDO periodically report median sales prices well below that range. Personally I have never had an offer over $1500 so why price a large portion of my portfolio higher? __________________ http://www.genericdomains.net/ http://www.dominericos.com/ http://www.premiumdomains.tv/

01-24-2010, 12:07 PM	#4 (permalink)
*Corey* Business Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 4,214	is the name available in other extensions? Cheers Corey __________________ ☆ Occupy.TV website/domain name for sale!

01-24-2010, 05:14 PM	#9 (permalink)
RicoShay www.demonised.com Join Date: May 2007 Location: London (UK) Posts: 2,968	I think at some point or other, we've all been guilty of over-pricing some of our inventory. I agree, some are just ridiculous "fantasies" but in some cases I'd say pricing is based on experience, personal circumstances/need etc. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=635919 Everyone has their own business models, they over-price, under-price, try new things etc. but I don't think there are any set-in-stone pricing rules/guides you can follow in this business. Maybe just the basic... price in $xxx range for quicker sales. One thing I've personally learned is that holding onto certain "favorite" domains - waiting for the "big" offers, can be bad for business because having a few hundred of these adds quite a big renewal bill each year. Tis' all about balance imo. __________________ eBay FOR SALE @ NamePros: KSI.in + RLI.in + EDE.in + 883.in + more \| SALE - Upto 40% OFF!

01-24-2010, 07:17 PM	#10 (permalink)
Domagon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wyomissing, PA, USA Posts: 1,223	$2300 price seems high, but then a domain is worth whatever someone else is willing to pay. Try bidding on it at Afternic - the opening bid for it there is currently $700. Alternatively, have your credit card ready and call them back during normal business hours (more options in regards to speaking with a supervisor, etc if need be) and see what they will accept for you to buy it on the spot. Ron __________________ Domagon - Website Management and Domain Name Sales

	LeadRefs	Forum Sponsorship
	Want to sell your domain? LeadRefs.com finds multiple potential buyers to contact instantly!

01-24-2010, 11:35 AM	#2 (permalink)
ericpkearns NamePros Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: middlebury, vt Posts: 124 Follow @ericpkearns	in any speculative market there will always be people like this...i would watch the domain for a future drop, as we both know she'll never sell it based on the info you provided. anyone who has stuck it out in the domain industry long enough to get a clue remembers their early days when they thought every name they registered was gold just because it "sounded good"...you should email her the google keyword tool link along with a message like "for educational purposes". There's an antique dealer down the road that marks all their old baseball cards at 150% of book value regardless of condition, and not surprisingly, their inventory hasn't changed in years. Some people are too attached to the fantasy world of what they want to believe their commodities are worth to ever face reality. The lottery ticket mentality.

01-24-2010, 12:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
namewaiter Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: cleveland Posts: 2,203	yea, i'd hate to be like buydomains and have a business model that produces millions in profit each year

01-24-2010, 01:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
Domainace Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Japan Posts: 1,879	I'm with you on unrealistic pricing from dreamers, buy the example of buydomains.com throws the topic off. I'm sure they have their metrics, and I'm sure many of their names are overpriced (as they can't be looking all that closely at such a large inventory). Presumably, they eventually get dropped. There are holes in buydomains organization, too, despite their profits. The pricing of domains has been a matter of perception (at least until recently). A big company can get away with silly-pricing quite often. There are plenty of gullible people impressed by a good presentation. Meanwhile, slacker Joe in Cincinnati thinks he pull of the same deal on Ebay. Nope. When I run into these guys, I just watch the name and wait for a firesale or a drop. In this economy, the wait shouldn't be too long.

01-24-2010, 08:06 PM	#11 (permalink)
*SpareDomains* Business Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 2,462	A domain is worth what you are willing to pay for it or what the seller is willing to let it go at. If no sale occurs on that domain in some time I would think the price would drop in the future. I have gotten domains for 50% off from the listed price from some of the big markets as most are willing to negotiate. There are sellers that flip hundreds or thousands of domains a year for small profits and there are sellers that only need to sell a small percentage because they only sell to end users at much higher returns. Personally I focus on end users as selling a handful of domains a year and making the same income as flipping thousands is less work. Your inventory would need to be quality to be able to price like that though and without knowing the exact domain hard to say if they are too high or not. If your goal is turn it into a mini site I would say you're not the perfect end user they are looking for but I think you could still negotiate with them but laughing at someone I think anyone would hang up on you. Last edited by SpareDomains; 01-24-2010 at 08:10 PM.

01-24-2010, 08:13 PM	#12 (permalink)
bmugford www.DataCube.com Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 5,838	Look on eBay. That is domain pricing fantasy land. I am not sure of the exact domain here, but in general asking $2K for a product related .COM (even a niche one), is not fantasy land to the right end user. Brad __________________ DataCube.com - Buy and Sell Premium Domains

01-24-2010, 08:46 PM	THREAD STARTER #13 (permalink)
mhdoc Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,132	I remember from my statistics class many years ago that a Poisson distribution described events that were random and rare. I think that probably fits nicely with domain sales. I'm certainly not the end user domainers are looking for. I build little sites on subjects which interest me. Search is the only way anyone will find them. So, I will use whatever tld is available and hyphens as needed to get a keyword domain that matches the subject. But whatever I can get for reg fee is good enough. If I had big plans that wouldn't work of course. Thanks for the responses.

01-25-2010, 04:20 AM	#17 (permalink)
Manga New Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2	$2,300 is not even close to fantasy land. Large companies think nothing of spending $2k, $5k, $10k etc. per month on marketing campaigns. $2,300 to obtain the keyword domain in a niche they are targeting is peanuts and wouldn't even raise an eyebrow. As has already been said, this price is for end users, not other domainers.

01-25-2010, 06:32 AM	#20 (permalink)
Spade NamePros Expert Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 7,848	Id hate to say this, but its not "fantasy land" when you sell as many domains at those kinds of prices. Bottom line, you may not sell every domain name, but there is a buyer out there at some point or another who will likely be willing to shell out that kind of money. What happens if Hopi Pottery becomes the latest hollywood craze? Would the domain be worth it then? Keep in mind - It COULD happen. __________________ Read my Blog! NameBio.com - Search The Domain Sales Index Buying LLLL.com's ending in "CA"

01-25-2010, 07:44 PM	THREAD STARTER #24 (permalink)
mhdoc Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,132	$2,300 for some dot coms makes lots of sense. $2,300 for HopiPottery.com is a fantasy. I think the differential for a dot com vs other tlds gets very small at the micro niche level.

01-25-2010, 08:07 PM	#25 (permalink)
bmugford www.DataCube.com Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 5,838	The term "Hopi Pottery" shows an average of 2400 Exact Google searches per month. Last month it had 5400. $2300 is not unreasonable for a clear use product related .COM like that. Plus that is their asking price, I am sure they would take a lower offer. I have sold terms with less than 1/2 of that search volume for Mid $X,XXX in the past. BuyDomains.com market is end users, not mini site makers. Just a quick Google search shows many likely end users for that domain. Brad __________________ DataCube.com - Buy and Sell Premium Domains

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