Your Thoughts on Mass Lowballing?

-REECE- · 05-24-2008, 10:09 PM

Some people call it whoising -- sending out hundreds (or thousands) of lowball offers via email, often using special software to speed up the process.

Others prefer to go down pages of domains on Sedo/TDNAM (mostly occurs at these 2 venues from what I've seen) and put lowball offers on all of them hoping someone takes their offer -- this is commonly done on 3 letter .coms and pronounceable 4 letter .coms and many generics see their share of lowball offers on Sedo as well.

My question - How do you feel about this? Do you get angry when someone sends you an offer for 1/100th your domain's value?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/473341-your-thoughts-on-mass-lowballing.html

I've been getting more and more lowball offers via email monthly since the start of this year and was wondering who else is getting tired of this spam.

JMJ · 05-24-2008, 10:21 PM

If it's directly related to your business it isn't spam. I don't see anything wrong with it. Some people might say emailing an end user on a name you own is spam. Also people might say that since you buy and sell domains you're a cyber squatter.

-REECE- · 05-24-2008, 10:26 PM

My personal opinion is that there's one legitimate way to do it and one way which I consider spam.

Doing research like Giode does before sending out an offer is an acceptable way of acquiring domains imho.

When you get 10 separate lowball emails in a single day from the same wannabe DRT domainer on your LLLL.coms on the other hand...

Originally Posted by JMJ

If it's directly related to your business it isn't spam. I don't see anything wrong with it. Some people might say emailing an end user on a name you own is spam. Also people might say that since you buy and sell domains you're a cyber squatter.

JMJ · 05-24-2008, 10:28 PM

If you don't throw your line in the water you wont catch any fish.

soggyindo · 05-24-2008, 10:49 PM

i can imagine this could get pretty annoying in the future. but not much can beat getting no offers in the annoying stakes

wot · 05-24-2008, 11:02 PM

Inundated by lowballs via email which really pisses me off, but I generally reply with " the highest offer to date that I did not accept is $-----." - just in case.

More often than not a do not get a second reply but has certainly resulted in a few sales.

If it's via Sedo and I have allowed a too low opening bid then I tend to think that it is down to me and do the usual high return bid just in case it was genuine low sparring bid. I am adding higher opening bids to my best names, way below my perceived value but enough to determine genuine interest- hopefully

.

hawkeye · 05-24-2008, 11:03 PM

Reece, bottom line is in all reality, is that if lowlife ignoramaces are going to do such, it's not going to stop because of a poll or because it's irritating and rude! They didn't/don't care what people thought in the first place, and they are too much of scumbags to stop because someone is upset about it. Lowlife cheapskates know that it only takes 1 or 2 outta a couple hundred lowballs to say yes, and they get what they were going for. And as we've all seen the transgression, it's going to get worse and worse, as more and more scumbags, and cheap newbies come into the game. No different then that next wave of 'I'll buy your LLL.com off you for a couple thousand dollars', emails that keep a coming. One can only delete and smile at them, or answer with a 'sure cheapster, as soon as you die' reply.

oddjob · 05-24-2008, 11:04 PM

I can see why this would bother you if you have lots of good 4 letter .coms or 3 letter .coms. It's a nice positions to be in though - forgive me for not feeling too sorry for you.

Something which bothered me - I put a bid in for a 3 letter .com listed at sedo for $2000, which is of course insanely cheap. They came back with a counterbid of $20000. Which was somewhat annoying - why offer a price guide of $2000 if you are actually asking 10 times that - waste of my time, waste of their time.

-REECE- · 05-24-2008, 11:18 PM

Yes, that's equally annoying. I don't know why people bother using a price at all if they're not going to sell for what their asking price is listed at -- the one exception I can understand is if they listed the domain there months/years ago and the values have changed since then.

Originally Posted by oddjob

Something which bothered me - I put a bid in for a 3 letter .com listed at sedo for $2000, which is of course insanely cheap. They came back with a counterbid of $20000. Which was somewhat annoying - why offer a price guide of $2000 if you are actually asking 10 times that - waste of my time, waste of their time.

Originally Posted by hawkeye

Reece, bottom line is in all reality, is that if lowlife ignoramaces are going to do such, it's not going to stop because of a poll or because it's irritating and rude! They didn't/don't care what people thought in the first place, and they are too much of scumbags to stop because someone is upset about it. Lowlife cheapskates know that it only takes 1 or 2 outta a couple hundred lowballs to say yes, and they get what they were going for. And as we've all seen the transgression, it's going to get worse and worse, as more and more scumbags, and cheap newbies come into the game. No different then that next wave of 'I'll buy your LLL.com off you for a couple thousand dollars', emails that keep a coming. One can only delete and smile at them, or answer with a 'sure cheapster, as soon as you die' reply.

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=473341
Thanks hawkeye, that made my day

Definitely agree with you that this poll will do nothing -- was just curious how many others are fed up with it like me. I had an email offer a few days ago for $1000 on BQB -- tried to maintain professionalism and not tell the guy to go @#$% himself which is exactly what I felt like saying

Of the last 3 LLL.coms I've put on Sedo, they've all been spammed with major lowballs (on the order of $500-$2000) within a week -- clearly someone is trying to prey on domainers who aren't aware of the value of what they own.

HBK216 · 05-24-2008, 11:32 PM

If someone doesn't like an offer, don't sell. Getting angry about offers is a waste of energy. You might not like it but it is smart business to try & see what one could get at rock bottom prices & there is nothing wrong with that. I don't see the point to sitting on a soap box & complaining as it takes little to no time at all to decline & move on.

equity78 · 05-24-2008, 11:46 PM

I can understand it getting annoying but at Sedo you can raise your min offer, I would get $60 bids all the time for a couple domains and just put the min at $600. ( These were not LLL.com so I was not wasting someones time) If I got an initial $600 I could counter at $5000 and maybe do a deal at $1500.

I agree Hawkeye a lot of people are cheap and some are clueless they do not think they are lowballing. You cannot let it upset you because like you say it is not stopping it will only increase and become common as people look at it as I may get lucky and its not a domainer on the WHOIS, Sedo you figure its a domainer, but email whois you may get someone who had a couple domains years ago and has no clue.

coldgarb · 05-25-2008, 04:29 AM

I agree with Equity , I think one sure way of avoiding this is putting a sensible min offer amount.

Secondly looking from the view point of a person who is sending you the mail - I guess all of us are looking to get cheap domains and sell for a huge profit.

It is difficult sometimes to know the true value of a domain , appraisals are a waste so that is the reason i feel many people start with a low ball offer.But I think its only in the best interest of the seller to reply to the email with the amount he is expecting

gazzip · 05-25-2008, 04:52 AM

I don't really mind the lowball offers but I find it a bit strange when they ask for stats on brandable domains (parked at sedo where you can see the stats if its over 50)

One thing that does bug me is when they have'nt got the decency to take 2 mins to cancel the deal if they don't like your asking price.

How hard is that to do ??? ....

to them !

.

Yofie · 05-25-2008, 05:23 AM

IMO, Luc should remove the mass emailing option from DRT! That tool surely adds a black eye to domainers.

The low-ball offer part is just part of the domaining business. People are always looking for the best deals. 90% of the people sending the low-ball offers are uneducated buyers who have a dream to make a quick buck. Each situation is different depending on where the offer comes from. If you are getting offers via Sedo it's one thing, since you can set your min offer and setting a min offer price would curb this.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=473341

Low-ball offers coming via whois or from parking pages is a bit harder to avoid but you can use privacy if you do not want the offers or remove the offer link on the parking pages. Fabulous parking pages allow that you can set a price or a min offer price which I think works and lowers the low-balling.

VURG · 05-25-2008, 08:03 PM

$2000 for a LLL.com. Not sure if I consider this an offensive offer. Some people will like the offer.

$60 offers for domains are annoying.

People should always be willing to back what they offer. (e.g. 1000 offers for $60 is a $60,000 commitment and should never be made without $60,000 funds at disposal) Offers should be made with a fixed time period. I try to limit my offers below $1000 as I prefer to have good communication with sellers.

bricio · 05-26-2008, 05:10 AM

it doesnt bother me and i understand these offers as we domainers are resellers and we always try to have as much ROI as possible

when i receive such offer i reply with a $100,000 (what is an unreasonable counter offer) or with an end-user one

GF · 05-26-2008, 03:46 PM

I have to agree with Reece on this one. Getting lowball offers on valuable names is not just annoying, it's BS, and unprofessional.

My primary occupation is in real estate, and one of the things that is totally looked down upon are people submitting lowball offers on properties that are clearly worth more. It is a big "no no" and shows a lack of.regard for the person you're looking to do business with.

ddadc · 05-26-2008, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by GF4444

I have to agree with Reece on this one. Getting lowball offers on valuable names is not just annoying, it's BS, and unprofessional.

#1 - Value is in the eye of the owner on this one, I have domains I would not take $10,000 for that most would not pay $100 for.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=473341

#2 - It's equally as annoying when you send someone a starting offer and they counter with something totally outrageous because in their skewed logic they think all their domains are virtually priceless, I am a big buyer, and that will turn me off a domain quicker than anything.

Nem0 · 05-26-2008, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by GF4444

I have to agree with Reece on this one. Getting lowball offers on valuable names is not just annoying, it's BS, and unprofessional.

My primary occupation is in real estate, and one of the things that is totally looked down upon are people submitting lowball offers on properties that are clearly worth more. It is a big "no no" and shows a lack of.regard for the person you're looking to do business with.

Fortunately you can see the identity of lowballers with real estate though - can't really do that with the domain screwball-lowballers.

Steve · 05-26-2008, 04:42 PM

I generally don't like mass lowballing. Asking registrants their asking price, in bulk or individually, is OK by me, if the buyer has intention of buying at or around current market value.

james2002 · 05-26-2008, 04:46 PM

I would not mind $60 low ball offer at my sedo domains as the more bids I got , the better chance my domain will come up the list.

Pred · 05-26-2008, 06:26 PM

lowballers are a pain in the arse, but just delete the enquiry or offer.

on sedo i counter often with a far higher bid , if the offer in first place is fair then i counter with a realistic counter. for example had a twoword.org up for sale this week , sold for low xxxx

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=473341
first offer was $750 which was more than i would get on a forum by 10 fold, i knew was worth up to mid xxxx to someone though and because other options were available to them, ie. plural and on sedo didn't want to miss boat. countered with a low euro offer, they went 1250$
done deal

what really gets on my wick though is if you counter a fair price and they hit the 'justify your asking price'

they get terminated there and then

Spade · 05-26-2008, 08:19 PM

Frankly there are two sides to the story. Not all offers are lowballs. What if I offer $1,000 for a domain name that is more than fair, but the owner has a rediculous price expectation of $1,000,000. Did I lowball him? or did he Highball me?

When I receive emails from domain spammers (and I get them too). I'll either delete them, or accept their offers. If they go along with it, I then tell them that I want them to pay for an appraisal just to make sure im selling at a fair market price. (Its funny, I swear).
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=473341

Also, bottom line. As a domain flipper - I need to buy low and sell high. Digging around for deals at below a wholesale price is part of what I do. I do lowball in the hope of getting a quality domain name at a fraction of what I might pay at a drop auction. Do I feel that Im behaving unethically because I buy lower then I sell? No. I buy at a price the owner is willing to sell at and that sits just fine with me.

I do not DRT Spam. I even do homework on the buyers I email. (There are certain things I look for) and for the most part, don't bother dealing with other Domainers.

Justin

**-Nick-** · 05-26-2008, 08:54 PM

Happens to me all time.

I get this kind of emails and I also get this kind of offers on sedo a lot. Some are really ridiculous ones. EX: a 25 USD offer on perfect CVCV

GF · 05-26-2008, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by Spade

Frankly there are two sides to the story. Not all offers are lowballs. What if I offer $1,000 for a domain name that is more than fair, but the owner has a rediculous price expectation of $1,000,000. Did I lowball him? or did he Highball me?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=473341

When I receive emails from domain spammers (and I get them too). I'll either delete them, or accept their offers. If they go along with it, I then tell them that I want them to pay for an appraisal just to make sure im selling at a fair market price. (Its funny, I swear).

Also, bottom line. As a domain flipper - I need to buy low and sell high. Digging around for deals at below a wholesale price is part of what I do. I do lowball in the hope of getting a quality domain name at a fraction of what I might pay at a drop auction. Do I feel that Im behaving unethically because I buy lower then I sell? No. I buy at a price the owner is willing to sell at and that sits just fine with me.

I do not DRT Spam. I even do homework on the buyers I email. (There are certain things I look for) and for the most part, don't bother dealing with other Domainers.

Justin

Justin, well said.

There is nothing wrong with looking for a fantastic deal! It's the SPAM we need to stop.

View Poll Results: Your Thoughts on Mass Lowballing?
It doesn't bother me.	32	51.61%
It's spam and should be stopped.	26	41.94%
I never knew people did this.	4	6.45%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

05-24-2008, 10:09 PM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
-REECE- NamePros Expert Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 8,996	Your Thoughts on Mass Lowballing? Some people call it whoising -- sending out hundreds (or thousands) of lowball offers via email, often using special software to speed up the process. Others prefer to go down pages of domains on Sedo/TDNAM (mostly occurs at these 2 venues from what I've seen) and put lowball offers on all of them hoping someone takes their offer -- this is commonly done on 3 letter .coms and pronounceable 4 letter .coms and many generics see their share of lowball offers on Sedo as well. My question - How do you feel about this? Do you get angry when someone sends you an offer for 1/100th your domain's value? ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/473341-your-thoughts-on-mass-lowballing.html I've been getting more and more lowball offers via email monthly since the start of this year and was wondering who else is getting tired of this spam. Last edited by Reece; 05-24-2008 at 10:12 PM.

05-24-2008, 10:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
JMJ Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Nashville Posts: 1,887	If it's directly related to your business it isn't spam. I don't see anything wrong with it. Some people might say emailing an end user on a name you own is spam. Also people might say that since you buy and sell domains you're a cyber squatter. __________________ DN Sites

05-24-2008, 10:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
JMJ Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Nashville Posts: 1,887	If you don't throw your line in the water you wont catch any fish. __________________ DN Sites

05-24-2008, 10:49 PM	#5 (permalink)
soggyindo Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: ✰$479 sites✰ artistwebsite.org Posts: 1,285	i can imagine this could get pretty annoying in the future. but not much can beat getting no offers in the annoying stakes __________________ Get a top quality domain portfolio, blog, or developed website, from $479. Quote NAMEHUGGER11 for a NamePros only discount. Artist Website \| Contemporary Art Blogs.

05-24-2008, 11:02 PM	#6 (permalink)
wot NamePros Expert Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Golden Triangle Posts: 5,774	Inundated by lowballs via email which really pisses me off, but I generally reply with " the highest offer to date that I did not accept is $-----." - just in case. More often than not a do not get a second reply but has certainly resulted in a few sales. If it's via Sedo and I have allowed a too low opening bid then I tend to think that it is down to me and do the usual high return bid just in case it was genuine low sparring bid. I am adding higher opening bids to my best names, way below my perceived value but enough to determine genuine interest- hopefully . __________________ Perú.co,上海.biz,红旗.com,MonikerBlog.com 247.in,888Blog.com,México.co,中国888.com

05-24-2008, 11:03 PM	#7 (permalink)
hawkeye Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hollyweird Posts: 2,567	Reece, bottom line is in all reality, is that if lowlife ignoramaces are going to do such, it's not going to stop because of a poll or because it's irritating and rude! They didn't/don't care what people thought in the first place, and they are too much of scumbags to stop because someone is upset about it. Lowlife cheapskates know that it only takes 1 or 2 outta a couple hundred lowballs to say yes, and they get what they were going for. And as we've all seen the transgression, it's going to get worse and worse, as more and more scumbags, and cheap newbies come into the game. No different then that next wave of 'I'll buy your LLL.com off you for a couple thousand dollars', emails that keep a coming. One can only delete and smile at them, or answer with a 'sure cheapster, as soon as you die' reply. __________________ FixedPriceDomains.com "Dream, Believe, Achieve!"

05-24-2008, 11:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
oddjob NamePros Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 108	I can see why this would bother you if you have lots of good 4 letter .coms or 3 letter .coms. It's a nice positions to be in though - forgive me for not feeling too sorry for you. Something which bothered me - I put a bid in for a 3 letter .com listed at sedo for $2000, which is of course insanely cheap. They came back with a counterbid of $20000. Which was somewhat annoying - why offer a price guide of $2000 if you are actually asking 10 times that - waste of my time, waste of their time.

05-24-2008, 11:32 PM	#10 (permalink)
HBK216 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,102	If someone doesn't like an offer, don't sell. Getting angry about offers is a waste of energy. You might not like it but it is smart business to try & see what one could get at rock bottom prices & there is nothing wrong with that. I don't see the point to sitting on a soap box & complaining as it takes little to no time at all to decline & move on. __________________ I've been the man before anyone knew what being the man was all about!

05-24-2008, 11:46 PM	#11 (permalink)
equity78 NamePros Expert Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 7,567	I can understand it getting annoying but at Sedo you can raise your min offer, I would get $60 bids all the time for a couple domains and just put the min at $600. ( These were not LLL.com so I was not wasting someones time) If I got an initial $600 I could counter at $5000 and maybe do a deal at $1500. I agree Hawkeye a lot of people are cheap and some are clueless they do not think they are lowballing. You cannot let it upset you because like you say it is not stopping it will only increase and become common as people look at it as I may get lucky and its not a domainer on the WHOIS, Sedo you figure its a domainer, but email whois you may get someone who had a couple domains years ago and has no clue. __________________ Congrats and Thank you to RJ Protect your brand,secure your .sucks today

05-25-2008, 04:29 AM	#12 (permalink)
coldgarb NamePros Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 111	I agree with Equity , I think one sure way of avoiding this is putting a sensible min offer amount. Secondly looking from the view point of a person who is sending you the mail - I guess all of us are looking to get cheap domains and sell for a huge profit. It is difficult sometimes to know the true value of a domain , appraisals are a waste so that is the reason i feel many people start with a low ball offer.But I think its only in the best interest of the seller to reply to the email with the amount he is expecting __________________ Cool Domains Cool Price remmie_azavedo @ yahoo. com

05-25-2008, 04:52 AM	#13 (permalink)
gazzip First Time Poster ! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: GB Posts: 6,881	I don't really mind the lowball offers but I find it a bit strange when they ask for stats on brandable domains (parked at sedo where you can see the stats if its over 50) One thing that does bug me is when they have'nt got the decency to take 2 mins to cancel the deal if they don't like your asking price. How hard is that to do ??? .... to them ! .

05-25-2008, 05:23 AM	#14 (permalink)
Yofie Yofie.com Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: DotWeekly.com Posts: 2,935	IMO, Luc should remove the mass emailing option from DRT! That tool surely adds a black eye to domainers. The low-ball offer part is just part of the domaining business. People are always looking for the best deals. 90% of the people sending the low-ball offers are uneducated buyers who have a dream to make a quick buck. Each situation is different depending on where the offer comes from. If you are getting offers via Sedo it's one thing, since you can set your min offer and setting a min offer price would curb this. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=473341 Low-ball offers coming via whois or from parking pages is a bit harder to avoid but you can use privacy if you do not want the offers or remove the offer link on the parking pages. Fabulous parking pages allow that you can set a price or a min offer price which I think works and lowers the low-balling. __________________ DotWeekly.com <--My Blog, Readers Welcome!

05-25-2008, 08:03 PM	#15 (permalink)
VURG VURG Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 2,606	$2000 for a LLL.com. Not sure if I consider this an offensive offer. Some people will like the offer. $60 offers for domains are annoying. People should always be willing to back what they offer. (e.g. 1000 offers for $60 is a $60,000 commitment and should never be made without $60,000 funds at disposal) Offers should be made with a fixed time period. I try to limit my offers below $1000 as I prefer to have good communication with sellers.

05-26-2008, 05:10 AM	#16 (permalink)
bricio Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Rio de Janeiro Posts: 2,553	it doesnt bother me and i understand these offers as we domainers are resellers and we always try to have as much ROI as possible when i receive such offer i reply with a $100,000 (what is an unreasonable counter offer) or with an end-user one

05-26-2008, 03:46 PM	#17 (permalink)
GF Buying Geo Domains Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 5,181	I have to agree with Reece on this one. Getting lowball offers on valuable names is not just annoying, it's BS, and unprofessional. My primary occupation is in real estate, and one of the things that is totally looked down upon are people submitting lowball offers on properties that are clearly worth more. It is a big "no no" and shows a lack of.regard for the person you're looking to do business with.

05-26-2008, 04:42 PM	#20 (permalink)
Steve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 4,204	I generally don't like mass lowballing. Asking registrants their asking price, in bulk or individually, is OK by me, if the buyer has intention of buying at or around current market value. __________________ Steve NamePros Staff Emeritus

05-26-2008, 04:46 PM	#21 (permalink)
james2002 Account Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,175	I would not mind $60 low ball offer at my sedo domains as the more bids I got , the better chance my domain will come up the list.

05-26-2008, 06:26 PM	#22 (permalink)
Pred Account Closed Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 6,713	lowballers are a pain in the arse, but just delete the enquiry or offer. on sedo i counter often with a far higher bid , if the offer in first place is fair then i counter with a realistic counter. for example had a twoword.org up for sale this week , sold for low xxxx ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=473341 first offer was $750 which was more than i would get on a forum by 10 fold, i knew was worth up to mid xxxx to someone though and because other options were available to them, ie. plural and on sedo didn't want to miss boat. countered with a low euro offer, they went 1250$ done deal what really gets on my wick though is if you counter a fair price and they hit the 'justify your asking price' they get terminated there and then

05-26-2008, 08:19 PM	#23 (permalink)
Spade NameBio.com Founder Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 7,855	Frankly there are two sides to the story. Not all offers are lowballs. What if I offer $1,000 for a domain name that is more than fair, but the owner has a rediculous price expectation of $1,000,000. Did I lowball him? or did he Highball me? When I receive emails from domain spammers (and I get them too). I'll either delete them, or accept their offers. If they go along with it, I then tell them that I want them to pay for an appraisal just to make sure im selling at a fair market price. (Its funny, I swear). ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=473341 Also, bottom line. As a domain flipper - I need to buy low and sell high. Digging around for deals at below a wholesale price is part of what I do. I do lowball in the hope of getting a quality domain name at a fraction of what I might pay at a drop auction. Do I feel that Im behaving unethically because I buy lower then I sell? No. I buy at a price the owner is willing to sell at and that sits just fine with me. I do not DRT Spam. I even do homework on the buyers I email. (There are certain things I look for) and for the most part, don't bother dealing with other Domainers. Justin __________________ Read my Blog! NameBio.com - Search The Domain Sales Index Buying LLLL.com's ending in "CA"

05-26-2008, 08:54 PM	#24 (permalink)
-Nick- I'll do it Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: India Posts: 6,927 Follow @keralpatel	Happens to me all time. I get this kind of emails and I also get this kind of offers on sedo a lot. Some are really ridiculous ones. EX: a 25 USD offer on perfect CVCV __________________ Delq\|Fhur\|Kegh\|Vhir\|Juhy\|Ruuz\|Jyos\|Jupt\|Vhek Webmaster Blog \| Software Downloads Makeup & Beauty Tips \| Sponsor Ads

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