Paypal chargeback question

Chappy · 02-27-2008, 09:14 AM

Somebody offered me a domain for sale but does not want to use Escrow. They want to use paypal. Of course I am a little suspicious.

Should I decide to pay with paypal and then do not obtain the domain - how easy is it to do a chargeback and what is the liklihood of recovering my money?

I hear all the time about sellers being scammed by paypal chargebacks which makes me think that this could be used the other way if the scammer is a seller.

Thanks

Spade · 02-27-2008, 09:19 AM

Matt,

Paypal does not guarantee "virtual" goods like Domains and Development. You stand to potentially lose any dispute if the seller doesn't transfer the domain name. I would strongly advise against this.

Justin

Chappy · 02-27-2008, 09:42 AM

Thanks Justin.

So how come domainers always seem to lose out to chargebacks?

Slick Domains · 02-27-2008, 10:02 AM

I used to work for a major chargeback department (i actually entered thechargebacks, including a lot of Paypal ones).

PayPal favors the the domain buyer. They could get the domain, say they didn't to their credit card company, and they have to enter a chargeback. Paypal it sounds like has to accept it because it is virtual goods.

I buy and sell via Paypal all the time and have yet to have a problem, but I will only use Escrow.com for transactions $200+ or in certain situations.

There is some risk involved, but it is really up to you. Have you offered to pay the Escrow fee? Sometimes people would rather use Paypal because the person paying doesn't have to pay the fees. If you offer to pay the Escrow fee and they still say no, then maybe you should be suspicious.

TheBulldog · 02-27-2008, 10:51 AM

Ask them how badly they want to sell it.

tricolorro · 02-27-2008, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Spade

Matt,

Paypal does not guarantee "virtual" goods like Domains and Development. You stand to potentially lose any dispute if the seller doesn't transfer the domain name. I would strongly advise against this.

Justin

Justin,
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/437799-paypal-chargeback-question.html

It would be the Seller at risk- not the buyer.

Patrick

Richard · 02-27-2008, 03:11 PM

If you do decide to use PayPal, make sure he has a verified PayPal account and if he lives in the U.S address confirmed. Avoid free email addresses (@hotmail.com, @gmail.com).

I highly suggest pushing for Escrow if they sale amount exceeds $250.00.

tricolorro · 02-27-2008, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Chappy

Somebody offered me a domain for sale but does not want to use Escrow. They want to use paypal. Of course I am a little suspicious.

Should I decide to pay with paypal and then do not obtain the domain - how easy is it to do a chargeback and what is the liklihood of recovering my money?

I hear all the time about sellers being scammed by paypal chargebacks which makes me think that this could be used the other way if the scammer is a seller.
Thanks

See if the Seller is a verified PayPal member.

Use a credit card if you do the transaction.

See if the Seller is a member of any domain forums.
Then check his rep if he is.

Call the tel # in the WhoIs to make sure domain does really belong
to the Seller.

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=437799
Or send an email for verification.

It's wise to be suspicious.

The above tactics will reduce your risk.

Patrick

Chappy · 02-27-2008, 05:16 PM

The seller is based in Germany.
The amount is about $2,000.
The paypal account is verified.

OK I will likely take my chances and try the chargeback if he runs with my money. He is also willing to sign an agreement so I will draft one up and get it signed beforehand.

goodkarmaco · 02-27-2008, 07:56 PM

Wait a second Chappy,

people are not saying you the seller does the charge back. People are telling you that if he is dishonest and you proceed with Pay Pal the buyer can do a charge back and you will loose your name and he will obtain your domain.

My advice too is the fee is high enough to warrant you proceeding thru Escrow.com.

I have the buyer pay for this. Even if you pay for it, the future is more certain in your favour.

Richard · 02-27-2008, 08:11 PM

I agree with goodkarmaco, even if you pay for 100% of the Escrow fees it's a better deal.

If he files a claim, and charges back there is not much you can do about it because it's a Virtual item. If it were a physical good Paypal would use shipping numbers and stuff to investigate.

Chappy · 02-27-2008, 10:52 PM

Read my post again - I am the buyer. The shady dude is the seller.
Therefore I think I am in a better position.

Pay the money. If he does not deliver the domain I do a chargeback and cross my fingers that Paypal will return the money.

goodkarmaco · 02-27-2008, 10:57 PM

Ha- ha,

you are right, my bad. You are the buyer, I got to slow down and read these posts, Imo. Yes, your plan is pretty safe if you pay with a charge card thru Pay Pal.

cache · 02-27-2008, 11:41 PM

related subject:
whether the paypal allow you to chargeback or not, can buyer simply call his own credit card company to chargeback?

htmlindex · 02-27-2008, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by Chappy

The seller is based in Germany.
The amount is about $2,000.
The paypal account is verified.

Personally, I'd rather do it via an Escrow service for that amount.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=437799

Originally Posted by Chappy

OK I will likely take my chances and try the chargeback if he runs with my money. He is also willing to sign an agreement so I will draft one up and get it signed beforehand.

Are you also in Germany? If not, highly unlikely that the agreement would help you at all.

goodkarmaco · 02-28-2008, 02:53 AM

Yes,

still safer with Escrow for that amount of money.

Earthian · 02-28-2008, 08:53 AM

if the name is not listed at SEDO , you can start a SEDO Domain Escrow for Outside Transactions (SEDO's escrow)
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=437799

the fee is only 3% (with a $50 minimum) ... buyer or seller pays fees

since the buyer was ready to incur PayPal fees (about 3%) to receive the funds , you can ask the seller to pay the SEDO fees ... they will be subtracted from the funds before they are disbursed to the seller ... with SEDO he won't pay more fees to receive the money regardless if he asks for a Wire Transfer or a PayPal Payment , because SEDO uses PayPal Mass Pay ... if you want to send the money to SEDO via PayPal there is a 3% charge for you (you must add it to the funds before sending them out)

for this amount don't risk it with the CC chargeback only ... there is a possibility you might not get your money back ... while even if you do there will be quite a long wait and quite a lot of fuss

lastly , (as others have said) if the seller insists on no escrow , there is a bid chance it is a scam ...

tricolorro · 02-28-2008, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Earthian

if the name is not listed at SEDO , you can start a SEDO Domain Escrow for Outside Transactions (SEDO's escrow)

the fee is only 3% (with a $50 minimum) ... buyer or seller pays fees

since the buyer was ready to incur PayPal fees (about 3%) to receive the funds , you can ask the seller to pay the SEDO fees ... they will be subtracted from the funds before they are disbursed to the seller ... with SEDO he won't pay more fees to receive the money regardless if he asks for a Wire Transfer or a PayPal Payment , because SEDO uses PayPal Mass Pay ... if you want to send the money to SEDO via PayPal there is a 3% charge for you (you must add it to the funds before sending them out)

for this amount don't risk it with the CC chargeback only ... there is a possibility you might not get your money back ... while even if you do there will be quite a long wait and quite a lot of fuss

lastly , (as others have said) if the seller insists on no escrow , there is a bid chance it is a scam ...
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=437799

Chappy,

Earthien's suggestion is really a good one.

As long as the domain is not listed at Sedo and you are not using Sedo's Name Servers the Sedo Escrow fee is only 3%.

This is Sedo's External Transfer Service.

Info and process here;
http://snurl.com/SedoEscrow

Look for "Domain Escrow for outside transactions"

Get a Sedo account if you don't already have one and pick PayPal as your payment method of choice (for receiving sales proceeds).

Sedo uses PayPal Mass Pay which means no PayPal fees will be deducted from your account.

The Buyer pays Sedo's 3% fee and you get your money into PayPal fee free.

It's the best of both worlds and both Buyer and Seller are protected.

Give Earthien some Rep (and a big hug and a kiss).

Patrick

P.S. I have always paid Sedo's 10% or $50 minimum fee when I sold a domain there.

Every time Sedo paid me they used PayPal Mass Pay and no fees were ever deducted from my sales proceeds

I'm assuming the same will be true for you even with just the 3% fee but I am not 100% sure.

02-27-2008, 09:14 AM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
Chappy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: San Francisco Posts: 1,104	Paypal chargeback question Somebody offered me a domain for sale but does not want to use Escrow. They want to use paypal. Of course I am a little suspicious. Should I decide to pay with paypal and then do not obtain the domain - how easy is it to do a chargeback and what is the liklihood of recovering my money? I hear all the time about sellers being scammed by paypal chargebacks which makes me think that this could be used the other way if the scammer is a seller. Thanks __________________ Domainer Since 1975

02-27-2008, 09:19 AM	#2 (permalink)
Spade NamePros Expert Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 7,848	Matt, Paypal does not guarantee "virtual" goods like Domains and Development. You stand to potentially lose any dispute if the seller doesn't transfer the domain name. I would strongly advise against this. Justin __________________ Read my Blog! NameBio.com - Search The Domain Sales Index Buying LLLL.com's ending in "CA"

02-27-2008, 09:42 AM	THREAD STARTER #3 (permalink)
Chappy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: San Francisco Posts: 1,104	Thanks Justin. So how come domainers always seem to lose out to chargebacks? __________________ Domainer Since 1975

02-27-2008, 10:51 AM	#5 (permalink)
TheBulldog Your Showbiz Connection Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Spam-It's what's for dinner. Posts: 4,714	Ask them how badly they want to sell it. __________________ ════════════════►◊ Funny Google Voice Translations

02-27-2008, 03:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
Richard NamePros Regular Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 571	If you do decide to use PayPal, make sure he has a verified PayPal account and if he lives in the U.S address confirmed. Avoid free email addresses (@hotmail.com, @gmail.com). I highly suggest pushing for Escrow if they sale amount exceeds $250.00. __________________ "Failure is not the only punishment for laziness; there is also the success of others." Last edited by Richard; 02-27-2008 at 03:17 PM.

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02-27-2008, 10:02 AM	#4 (permalink)
Slick Domains NamePros Regular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 226	I used to work for a major chargeback department (i actually entered thechargebacks, including a lot of Paypal ones). PayPal favors the the domain buyer. They could get the domain, say they didn't to their credit card company, and they have to enter a chargeback. Paypal it sounds like has to accept it because it is virtual goods. I buy and sell via Paypal all the time and have yet to have a problem, but I will only use Escrow.com for transactions $200+ or in certain situations. There is some risk involved, but it is really up to you. Have you offered to pay the Escrow fee? Sometimes people would rather use Paypal because the person paying doesn't have to pay the fees. If you offer to pay the Escrow fee and they still say no, then maybe you should be suspicious.

02-27-2008, 05:16 PM	THREAD STARTER #9 (permalink)
Chappy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: San Francisco Posts: 1,104	The seller is based in Germany. The amount is about $2,000. The paypal account is verified. OK I will likely take my chances and try the chargeback if he runs with my money. He is also willing to sign an agreement so I will draft one up and get it signed beforehand. __________________ Domainer Since 1975

02-27-2008, 07:56 PM	#10 (permalink)
goodkarmaco Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Blaine, Wa. Posts: 1,971	Wait a second Chappy, people are not saying you the seller does the charge back. People are telling you that if he is dishonest and you proceed with Pay Pal the buyer can do a charge back and you will loose your name and he will obtain your domain. My advice too is the fee is high enough to warrant you proceeding thru Escrow.com. I have the buyer pay for this. Even if you pay for it, the future is more certain in your favour. __________________ GOODKARMACO, "Tenisonline"

02-27-2008, 08:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
Richard NamePros Regular Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 571	I agree with goodkarmaco, even if you pay for 100% of the Escrow fees it's a better deal. If he files a claim, and charges back there is not much you can do about it because it's a Virtual item. If it were a physical good Paypal would use shipping numbers and stuff to investigate. __________________ "Failure is not the only punishment for laziness; there is also the success of others." Last edited by Richard; 02-27-2008 at 08:25 PM.

02-27-2008, 10:52 PM	THREAD STARTER #12 (permalink)
Chappy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: San Francisco Posts: 1,104	Read my post again - I am the buyer. The shady dude is the seller. Therefore I think I am in a better position. Pay the money. If he does not deliver the domain I do a chargeback and cross my fingers that Paypal will return the money. __________________ Domainer Since 1975

02-27-2008, 10:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
goodkarmaco Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Blaine, Wa. Posts: 1,971	Ha- ha, you are right, my bad. You are the buyer, I got to slow down and read these posts, Imo. Yes, your plan is pretty safe if you pay with a charge card thru Pay Pal. __________________ GOODKARMACO, "Tenisonline"

02-27-2008, 11:41 PM	#14 (permalink)
cache Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Goblin Wars Zone & California Posts: 4,471	related subject: whether the paypal allow you to chargeback or not, can buyer simply call his own credit card company to chargeback? __________________ LaFrance Hods Raids Trik OXSI GoblinWars IQx yPortal Idel enlo Kitu Hytu Albums eMontage Cereal Tarf MDTalks Toch TV vald hosy iBoar Glem wolk corg ypen DiTV

02-28-2008, 02:53 AM	#16 (permalink)
goodkarmaco Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Blaine, Wa. Posts: 1,971	Yes, still safer with Escrow for that amount of money. __________________ GOODKARMACO, "Tenisonline"

02-28-2008, 08:53 AM	#17 (permalink)
Earthian NamePros Regular Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Earth Posts: 926	if the name is not listed at SEDO , you can start a SEDO Domain Escrow for Outside Transactions (SEDO's escrow) ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=437799 the fee is only 3% (with a $50 minimum) ... buyer or seller pays fees since the buyer was ready to incur PayPal fees (about 3%) to receive the funds , you can ask the seller to pay the SEDO fees ... they will be subtracted from the funds before they are disbursed to the seller ... with SEDO he won't pay more fees to receive the money regardless if he asks for a Wire Transfer or a PayPal Payment , because SEDO uses PayPal Mass Pay ... if you want to send the money to SEDO via PayPal there is a 3% charge for you (you must add it to the funds before sending them out) for this amount don't risk it with the CC chargeback only ... there is a possibility you might not get your money back ... while even if you do there will be quite a long wait and quite a lot of fuss lastly , (as others have said) if the seller insists on no escrow , there is a bid chance it is a scam ... __________________ ██__________██ ██____e-vj____██ ██__________██ Last edited by Earthian; 02-28-2008 at 09:16 AM.

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