Why to pay a backorder service instead to buy directly?

Genialnames · 11-27-2005, 11:52 AM

I have never used to backorder a D-name, so I could go wrong but, I see at snapnames.com the minimum price for a domain name delivered by them through a backorder, it cost not less than 60$ (and more, I didn't saw if reg fee are included , in case no the price it is higher).

I think that no even a cent of these 60$ or more, goes to the previous "owner".

A lot of people seems to buy expired domain names with backorder and I don't know the reason why use this service, a part it is an automated task.

Wouldn't be more correct and fair and nice to contact the person who is leaving the domain to expire and offer these money ?
This person maybe is not renewing because has no enough money, or for whatever other reason, but he registered first and he for shure had paid for the reg fee.
Why to give these money to a third party who really has taken part at all in the story of that name?

I can see many advantages in contacting the owner:

for first: the domain industry would have an advantage since virtually the cost of a domain for sale it is not less than 60$.

Sorry for "shark style" speculators but the global interest should be considered priority.(shure someone is gonna hate me here ) Ok they would lost a lot of big deals , not easy anymore to buy names for nuts, to lately try to resell it at higher price;-)
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/143384-why-pay-backorder-service-instead-buy.html
Instead all the owners of domain names should be more than happy for that.

Second I can guess a rise in number of registrations, being a good deal to buy something for 7$up knowing it worth at least 60us$ if sold with no efforts.

Than I could mention various positive effects on the personal level, both for the seller and the buyer.

Am I out?

JMJ · 11-27-2005, 12:00 PM

In alot of cases the conact info is outdated. Which is precisely why it's expiring/dropping. But, in alot of cases not. If enough people do this sort of thing then you start making the guys with all of the dough have to resort to doing the same or buy from us. It makes their job harder and they will more than likely have to change their buying patterns.

Some have publicly stated they buy from the drop services and auctions because it comes with a clean bill of health and its easier. If this all goes away then it could very well change the market and they will be forced to start buying from (as someone else eloquently put it) "the commoners."

Genialnames · 11-27-2005, 12:19 PM

not shure to perfectly undestan your point, are you say it is good or it is bad?

also, I couldn't find commoners on babelfish, what it mean?

JMJ · 11-27-2005, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Genialnames

not shure to perfectly undestan your point, are you say it is good or it is bad?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=143384

also, I couldn't find commoners on babelfish, what it mean?

If done by the masses it could be a good thing. It could very well eliminate the need for a drop market altogether.

com·mon·er Audio pronunciation of "commoners" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (km-nr)
n.

1. One of the common people.
2. A person without noble rank or title.

gazzip · 11-27-2005, 12:30 PM

Hi, I think some of the domains that expire are often used "in addition" to point to the persons website. Sexmags(dot)com is an example of this, it has just dropped at snapnames. In these cases the owners website does not go down therefore there is even less chance they will know it has to be renewed (that's if the email notification does'nt get acknowledged)

I have also found out recently that if no backorder is placed the names can go to a company who will hang on to them to see if there is any incoming traffic before releasing them without paying - IMO this part is wrong and should not be allowed !

(please note I am not 100% sure of this)

JMJ · 11-27-2005, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by gazzip

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=143384
I have also found out recently that if no backorder is placed the names can go to a company who will hang on to them to see if there is any incoming traffic before releasing them without paying - IMO this part is wrong and should not be allowed !

(please note I am not 100% sure of this)

You are correct. To the tune of 1,000,000+/- a day

Genialnames · 11-27-2005, 02:25 PM

mmm, I see a weak point in this idea.
The owner could turn into a speculator itself , if the thing it is not ruled in some way:
let sayI have purchased some domain, to resell it one day, and then I am not convinced anymore and I decide to let them expire...

A person contact me and offer 60$ for one Domain, since I bought to resell it I would almost shurely ask more. Maybe not so much but at least I will try ...

This Christmas time it makes me always dreaming ....

An easier way would be that services like snapnames nicely would act like an interface between owners and buyers and fairy would recognize a percent to the exiting owner. :-)
Maybe I start a service this way, I am shure people will love it.
Maybe someone else do it before me...

If you get rich with this , please remember me and be generous.

Jiblob · 11-27-2005, 02:58 PM

To do this, it would be assuming that they have a right to the name, which they dont.

Their contract ends at the end of their registration, and they accept the agreement that their domain name will be passed on to a backorder company and that they have a right to the domain name up to the point of expiration. It is their job to keep up to date with the rules agreements with themselves and their registrar and to keep the domain name paid up to date.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=143384

I do not agree with backorder services, I don't think it is right in the first place, because it is just a scam... I dont think they should be passed off on an auction. IMHO But they DO accept to the agreements of their registrar, and really it IS their own fault if they lose the name.

- Luke

**Dave Zan** · 11-27-2005, 03:29 PM

Backorder companies used to just at least try to grab a name before others
do. With some registrars now attempting to auction an expired name before
pulling the plug, their "skills" have been expanded.

I honestly don't know if this practice is "unethical" to say the least because
no one around here is in an "authoritative" position to proclaim what isn't and
what is. This has practical benefits, but it also has drawbacks for those who
have every intent to renew the name and make sure no one else gets it.

How one views this practice is entirely up to that person, depending on what
aspects they take into consideration.

Sam · 11-27-2005, 03:35 PM

The precise reason why CLS is being implemented by Verisign. To stop those greedy registrars from picking millions of domains up and then dropping.

JMJ · 11-27-2005, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by damitssam

The precise reason why CLS is being implemented by Verisign. To stop those greedy registrars from picking millions of domains up and then dropping.

If you really think Verisign has your best interest in mind with CLS you are mistaken. CLS is nothing but monopoly on the drop market and in addition to putting them out of business it will put brokers out of business aswell. Because users CAN add their names to it during active status. CLS makes those with the big wallets dropcatching so much easier. I puts all domains dropping and for sale in one place all they have to do is go down the line and add their proxy bid. No figuring out where it's dropping. No figuring out who the best services is. No first come first serve. No using brokers to buy or sell names. Only who has the bigger wallet. It will put me out of business in the reseller market and it will you too.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=143384

I made $xxxx brokering deals this month alone. If such a system was in place there is no need for me.

equity78 · 11-27-2005, 06:05 PM

Why Name should you not be brkering names that are not near expiry if someone wants a name they cannot bank on the fact that someone will let it expire. But you are right CLS is not for the little guy it is for the big guys to develop a software and adjust each day for a year out their proxy bids and buy what htey like or bid it up to make someone esle pay more for the domain.

JMJ · 11-27-2005, 06:09 PM

People can list thier names all throughout the time of ownership. There is no just before expiry or whatever. So why would anyone use anything else? I read the transcripts from the meeting and they are anticipating charging 2% to buyer and 2% to seller. Thats atleast 6% lower than I charge aswell as the industry standard Afternic, Sedo, etc.. In reality its another 2% because it's split between buyer and seller.

Australia · 11-27-2005, 06:16 PM

i tend to agree with "Genialnames" i use snapnames and i have had some bargains untill you come up against some heavy hitters like vaxis etc which tend to allways outbid you.

i would rather pay $60 for it than alert the owner to the name being dropped and he may keep it or charge alot more knowing there is interest in it.

JMJ · 11-27-2005, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Australia

i tend to agree with "Genialnames" i use snapnames and i have had some bargains untill you come up against some heavy hitters like vaxis etc which tend to allways outbid you.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=143384

i would rather pay $60 for it than alert the owner to the name being dropped and he may keep it or charge alot more knowing there is interest in it.

In that case you turn it into a brokering deal. They renew and you broker the name out for them. Either way you make money and you make the big guys job harder. If they let it expire on accident you get the gratification of pointing it out to them. You've made a friend, mabey a future customer and they might even thank you monetarily for it.

kjmz · 11-27-2005, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by NameMogul.com

In alot of cases the conact info is outdated.

I agree with NameMogul.com, it's that or they just never reply.

Sam · 11-27-2005, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by NameMogul.com

If you really think Verisign has your best interest in mind with CLS you are mistaken. CLS is nothing but monopoly on the drop market and in addition to putting them out of business it will put brokers out of business aswell. Because users CAN add their names to it during active status. CLS makes those with the big wallets dropcatching so much easier. I puts all domains dropping and for sale in one place all they have to do is go down the line and add their proxy bid. No figuring out where it's dropping. No figuring out who the best services is. No first come first serve. No using brokers to buy or sell names. Only who has the bigger wallet. It will put me out of business in the reseller market and it will you too.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=143384

I made $xxxx brokering deals this month alone. If such a system was in place there is no need for me.

Think about it.... if vaxis wanted a domain HE WILL backorder it at EVERY single backordering service. Sure it simplifies things for the big guys... but also the little guys. Now you dont HAFTA pay $30 to dropcatch a name and worry about those pesky registrars taking them up and droping them

. I like finding mini bargains.

dongan · 11-27-2005, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by kjmz

I agree with NameMogul.com, it's that or they just never reply.

If the contact details is outdated, how can even the people who does backorder do the favour to us?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=143384

If we do want to grb more domains, contacting all the people and get reply from their reply will be hard. So, simply, some people can do the work for us. We can sit at leisure?

JMJ · 11-27-2005, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by damitssam

Think about it.... if vaxis wanted a domain HE WILL backorder it at EVERY single backordering service. Sure it simplifies things for the big guys... but also the little guys. Now you dont HAFTA pay $30 to dropcatch a name and worry about those pesky registrars taking them up and droping them

. I like finding mini bargains.

If they are all in one place and the entire world knows when, where, and how to backorder a name. Your bargains are gone. You have to bid against the very people you might have sold that name to in the first place. You see in this senario the only competition is who has the bigger wallet and desire. Not who was the first to get the name.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=143384

Originally Posted by dongan

If the contact details is outdated, how can even the people who does backorder do the favour to us?

If we do want to grb more domains, contacting all the people and get reply from their reply will be hard. So, simply, some people can do the work for us. We can sit at leisure?

A little work saves alot of money. In the real estate market it's called "sweat equity" I think it could be applied here aswell. If you let others do the work for you you're going to pay the premium price. Especially if there's only one place you can get that service from.

11-27-2005, 11:52 AM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
Genialnames NamePros Regular Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 794	Why to pay a backorder service instead to buy directly? I have never used to backorder a D-name, so I could go wrong but, I see at snapnames.com the minimum price for a domain name delivered by them through a backorder, it cost not less than 60$ (and more, I didn't saw if reg fee are included , in case no the price it is higher). I think that no even a cent of these 60$ or more, goes to the previous "owner". A lot of people seems to buy expired domain names with backorder and I don't know the reason why use this service, a part it is an automated task. Wouldn't be more correct and fair and nice to contact the person who is leaving the domain to expire and offer these money ? This person maybe is not renewing because has no enough money, or for whatever other reason, but he registered first and he for shure had paid for the reg fee. Why to give these money to a third party who really has taken part at all in the story of that name? I can see many advantages in contacting the owner: for first: the domain industry would have an advantage since virtually the cost of a domain for sale it is not less than 60$. Sorry for "shark style" speculators but the global interest should be considered priority.(shure someone is gonna hate me here ) Ok they would lost a lot of big deals , not easy anymore to buy names for nuts, to lately try to resell it at higher price;-) ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/143384-why-pay-backorder-service-instead-buy.html Instead all the owners of domain names should be more than happy for that. Second I can guess a rise in number of registrations, being a good deal to buy something for 7$up knowing it worth at least 60us$ if sold with no efforts. Than I could mention various positive effects on the personal level, both for the seller and the buyer. Am I out? __________________ www.genialnames.com Mostly developable Domain Names...because the name says it all! Olympionic.com it's mine, it could be your! Last edited by Genialnames; 11-27-2005 at 11:58 AM.

11-27-2005, 12:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
JMJ Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Nashville Posts: 1,888	In alot of cases the conact info is outdated. Which is precisely why it's expiring/dropping. But, in alot of cases not. If enough people do this sort of thing then you start making the guys with all of the dough have to resort to doing the same or buy from us. It makes their job harder and they will more than likely have to change their buying patterns. Some have publicly stated they buy from the drop services and auctions because it comes with a clean bill of health and its easier. If this all goes away then it could very well change the market and they will be forced to start buying from (as someone else eloquently put it) "the commoners." __________________ DN Sites Last edited by JMJ; 11-27-2005 at 12:04 PM.

11-27-2005, 12:19 PM	THREAD STARTER #3 (permalink)
Genialnames NamePros Regular Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 794	not shure to perfectly undestan your point, are you say it is good or it is bad? also, I couldn't find commoners on babelfish, what it mean? __________________ www.genialnames.com Mostly developable Domain Names...because the name says it all! Olympionic.com it's mine, it could be your!

11-27-2005, 02:25 PM	THREAD STARTER #7 (permalink)
Genialnames NamePros Regular Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 794	mmm, I see a weak point in this idea. The owner could turn into a speculator itself , if the thing it is not ruled in some way: let sayI have purchased some domain, to resell it one day, and then I am not convinced anymore and I decide to let them expire... A person contact me and offer 60$ for one Domain, since I bought to resell it I would almost shurely ask more. Maybe not so much but at least I will try ... This Christmas time it makes me always dreaming .... An easier way would be that services like snapnames nicely would act like an interface between owners and buyers and fairy would recognize a percent to the exiting owner. :-) Maybe I start a service this way, I am shure people will love it. Maybe someone else do it before me... If you get rich with this , please remember me and be generous. __________________ www.genialnames.com Mostly developable Domain Names...because the name says it all! Olympionic.com it's mine, it could be your! Last edited by Genialnames; 11-27-2005 at 02:36 PM.

11-27-2005, 02:58 PM	#8 (permalink)
Jiblob Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: .co.uk Posts: 2,237 Follow @coultonluke	To do this, it would be assuming that they have a right to the name, which they dont. Their contract ends at the end of their registration, and they accept the agreement that their domain name will be passed on to a backorder company and that they have a right to the domain name up to the point of expiration. It is their job to keep up to date with the rules agreements with themselves and their registrar and to keep the domain name paid up to date. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=143384 I do not agree with backorder services, I don't think it is right in the first place, because it is just a scam... I dont think they should be passed off on an auction. IMHO But they DO accept to the agreements of their registrar, and really it IS their own fault if they lose the name. - Luke __________________ :hi:

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11-27-2005, 12:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
gazzip First Time Poster ! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: GB Posts: 6,877	Hi, I think some of the domains that expire are often used "in addition" to point to the persons website. Sexmags(dot)com is an example of this, it has just dropped at snapnames. In these cases the owners website does not go down therefore there is even less chance they will know it has to be renewed (that's if the email notification does'nt get acknowledged) I have also found out recently that if no backorder is placed the names can go to a company who will hang on to them to see if there is any incoming traffic before releasing them without paying - IMO this part is wrong and should not be allowed ! (please note I am not 100% sure of this)

11-27-2005, 03:29 PM	#9 (permalink)
Dave Zan Electrifying Guy Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 4,827 Follow @DaveZan	Backorder companies used to just at least try to grab a name before others do. With some registrars now attempting to auction an expired name before pulling the plug, their "skills" have been expanded. I honestly don't know if this practice is "unethical" to say the least because no one around here is in an "authoritative" position to proclaim what isn't and what is. This has practical benefits, but it also has drawbacks for those who have every intent to renew the name and make sure no one else gets it. How one views this practice is entirely up to that person, depending on what aspects they take into consideration. __________________ *Vidi, Vici, Veni!* Follow My Tweets \| Check My Blog

11-27-2005, 03:35 PM	#10 (permalink)
Sam Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 3,320	The precise reason why CLS is being implemented by Verisign. To stop those greedy registrars from picking millions of domains up and then dropping. __________________ SPECIAL: The World's BEST Single Letter Domain Sale! Lowest single letter price on the market! Starting at $799

11-27-2005, 06:05 PM	#12 (permalink)
equity78 NamePros Expert Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 7,638	Why Name should you not be brkering names that are not near expiry if someone wants a name they cannot bank on the fact that someone will let it expire. But you are right CLS is not for the little guy it is for the big guys to develop a software and adjust each day for a year out their proxy bids and buy what htey like or bid it up to make someone esle pay more for the domain. __________________ Host your website with name.com and get up to $10.99 off any domain registration First Quarter 2012 5 letter.com sales report

11-27-2005, 06:09 PM	#13 (permalink)
JMJ Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Nashville Posts: 1,888	People can list thier names all throughout the time of ownership. There is no just before expiry or whatever. So why would anyone use anything else? I read the transcripts from the meeting and they are anticipating charging 2% to buyer and 2% to seller. Thats atleast 6% lower than I charge aswell as the industry standard Afternic, Sedo, etc.. In reality its another 2% because it's split between buyer and seller. __________________ DN Sites

11-27-2005, 06:16 PM	#14 (permalink)
Australia Account Closed Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Posts: 404	i tend to agree with "Genialnames" i use snapnames and i have had some bargains untill you come up against some heavy hitters like vaxis etc which tend to allways outbid you. i would rather pay $60 for it than alert the owner to the name being dropped and he may keep it or charge alot more knowing there is interest in it.

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