Regsquatting

11-10-2005, 02:13 PM

The way that registrars have entered and disrupted the drop market is maddening.
My latest beef is w/ GoDaddy, (who appears to be the primary culprit among the major registrars), and involves the the double standard they apply to the time period they will hold a name, before letting it drop- if indeed, they are letting the better names drop at all.

I've been following a name that expired on Sept 1st, and when I run a search I get this message:
Whois Output Obtained From: whois.godaddy.com
No match for "[example].com" in the registrar database.
However, when I go to register the name, it shows up as not being available. I haven't gotten involved w/ their new auction system, but my guess is that this has something to do w/ the problem.
Just what is the breakdown on their auction system? Are they cherrypicking the better names that expire, and than putting them up for auction? How long are they holding onto them if a sale doesn't occur?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/139041-regsquatting.html

When a name drops from the registry, the name should automatically enter the drop queue at the registrar and delete the queue cycle completes. Period. For a registrar to hold a name any longer than has a conflict of interest, plain and simple. They have been paid for the service they provided- they don't own the name or have any special rights to it. So why do some names, (the less attractive ones seem to drop right on schedule, while others, (the ones worth picking up), dawdle about and never seem to cut loose?

This is just one more situation that is part of a long string of incidents, that makes me happy that, about 10 mos ago, I decided to transfer out all of my names registered w/ Grabdaddy. Another month or so to go, they will be out of my life, and they can....

Flaresolutions · 11-10-2005, 03:12 PM

With all the drop name services that are available its basically impossible to catch any prime domains that drop now. Now with the numerous registrars (netsol have always been the worst) that arent letting the domains drop on time its an awkward situation.

gazzip · 11-10-2005, 03:29 PM

I also wonder if Godaddy is doing this - just a couple of weeks ago I attempted to buy the domain name equineproperty(dot)com from their expiring domains list.

I had been watching the domain for a while and there were no bids until a few hrs toward the end when someone placed a $10 bid - just before the end I attempted to place my bid of $30 but for some reason it kept asking me to confirm, i ticked the box quite a few times but it did'nt seem to want to take it ???
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=139041

I may be totally wrong but I think they kept it as they did'nt want to sell it for that ?? Maybe someone can enlighten me on this issue.

please

What exactly is REGISTRA-LOCK ??

The domain currently shows this in the whois:

Registrar: GO DADDY SOFTWARE, INC.
Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com
Name Server: PARK17.SECURESERVER.NET
Name Server: PARK18.SECURESERVER.NET
Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
Updated Date: 10-oct-2005
Creation Date: 05-oct-2003
Expiration Date: 05-oct-2006

**Dave Zan** · 11-10-2005, 08:50 PM

It appears there's a slight confusion here.

Remember that ICANN requires registrars to delete an expired name within 45
days:

http://icann.org/registrars/eddp.htm

Quote:

3.7.5 At the conclusion of the registration period, failure by or on behalf of the Registered Name Holder to consent that the registration be renewed within the time specified in a second notice or reminder shall, in the absence of extenuating circumstances, result in cancellation of the registration by the end of the auto-renew grace period (although Registrar may choose to cancel the name earlier).

3.7.5.1 Extenuating circumstances are defined as: UDRP action, valid court order, failure of a Registrar's renewal process (which does not include failure of a registrant to respond), the domain name is used by a nameserver that provides DNS service to third-parties (additional time may be required to migrate the records managed by the nameserver), the registrant is subject to bankruptcy proceedings, payment dispute (where a registrant claims to have paid for a renewal, or a discrepancy in the amount paid), billing dispute (where a registrant disputes the amount on a bill), domain name subject to litigation in a court of competent jurisdiction, or other circumstance as approved specifically by ICANN.

3.7.5.2 Where Registrar chooses, under extenuating circumstances, to renew a domain name without the explicit consent of the registrant, the registrar must maintain a record of the extenuating circumstances associated with renewing that specific domain name for inspection by ICANN consistent with clauses 3.4.2 and 3.4.3 of this registrar accreditation agreement.

3.7.5.3 In the absence of extenuating circumstances (as defined in Section 3.7.5.1 above), a domain name must be deleted within 45 days of either the registrar or the registrant terminating a registration agreement.

The registrar can do anything to the expired domain name while it's within its
so-called "grace period". But they'll no longer have a say once the name has
been deleted except to redeem it or try to catch it for its customer when it's
available.

However, if you're able to prove a registrar has "kept" an expired name longer
than the 45-day limit, be sure to report it to ICANN and give as much proof
and details as possible.

Then again, there's no assurance ICANN will do anything about it, either.

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=139041

So until ICANN, a Court of competent jurisdiction, or a specific law gives the
final say on this, there's not really much we can do.

.X. · 11-11-2005, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Grrilla

The way that registrars have entered and disrupted the drop market is maddening.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=139041
My latest beef is w/ GoDaddy, (who appears to be the primary culprit among the major registrars), and involves the the double standard they apply to the time period they will hold a name, before letting it drop- if indeed, they are letting the better names drop at all.

I've been following a name that expired on Sept 1st, and when I run a search I get this message:
Whois Output Obtained From: whois.godaddy.com
No match for "[example].com" in the registrar database.
However, when I go to register the name, it shows up as not being available. I haven't gotten involved w/ their new auction system, but my guess is that this has something to do w/ the problem.
Just what is the breakdown on their auction system? Are they cherrypicking the better names that expire, and than putting them up for auction? How long are they holding onto them if a sale doesn't occur?

When a name drops from the registry, the name should automatically enter the drop queue at the registrar and delete the queue cycle completes. Period. For a registrar to hold a name any longer than has a conflict of interest, plain and simple. They have been paid for the service they provided- they don't own the name or have any special rights to it. So why do some names, (the less attractive ones seem to drop right on schedule, while others, (the ones worth picking up), dawdle about and never seem to cut loose?

This is just one more situation that is part of a long string of incidents, that makes me happy that, about 10 mos ago, I decided to transfer out all of my names registered w/ Grabdaddy. Another month or so to go, they will be out of my life, and they can....

Indeed Grrilla,I couldn't agree more,And i have felt your pain,Being in the business of deleted domain names,I hear alot of different rumors in the drop industry,some i find to true,others just rumors.One that is a fact and i know to be true,The traffic snaps are buying all the names,to only drop what they don't want 3 to 4 days later.ICANN can not regulate what they don't know about,This is the case in drops the last few months,It has been a common practice for reges to sell off thier stock of deleted names,Some ask,How is this possible,Specific drop times,Names don't just drop once daily as some may think,Many names are on "on hold" status with verisign,They can drop multiple times daily as verisign releases them,some on hold for over 12 months.With TDNAM now a money maker for godaddy,why would they let a premuim DN in thier deleted API get away,They wont.So in a nutshell,It's money changing hands,The traffic buyers getting all the premuim drops,Dropping what they dont want a few days later.Anyone ever wonder why Pool has a majority of the best selection of premuim names available to bid on

I wish i could cover this more with exact specifics,Names and ect,Unfortuantly i can't.Never the less,The way it is being done is legal,But very unethical imo

11-12-2005, 12:08 AM

For what it's worth, I've made html copies of several whois search pgs that demonstrate instances where 45 das have passed after a name has expired, and weeks, sometimes a month+ later, the name is still unavail. to register. There is a never-neverland that exists that I haven't figured out. The whois will show the expiry date and the registrar where it "was" registered at and a "Not found on Server" message appears. However, when attempting to register it at other registrars, their whois shows that it is unavail. I'm going to attempt to reg at more than the 2 registrars that I have already tried, just to test it further.

Additionally, I have emails from registrars w/ offers to sell names that had dropped and, than, were subsequenly released within the 5 da grace period after I didn't respond. In one instance, I had actually used a cheapy drop service to fetch the name for me and had lost it. The name in question, Grrilla_com really has no commercial value, which makes me suspect that the registrar picked up on it here at the forum, as my plan to pick it up was mentioned in a thread.

I also have a copy of a thread that I picked up on (from a location that shall remain undisclosed, for the time being), where several registrars were debating this issue after it was proposed by some members that this practice should be curtailed and regulated. The rebuttals coming from those who were defending their practice, basically w/ the defense that the practice was central to their "business model", were particularly revealing.

I have a folder that is beginning to get fat, that I have been saving materials that document this, as well as, a variety of other practices that , IMO, are underhanded, unethical and, inexplicably, continue to go on unchecked and unregulated. I have planned to put this info up on a site for sometime but, frankly, this whole business gives me heartburn everytime I think about it or run across new instances of abuse. I have other projects that absorb and inspire me, rather than depress me. So, my pref is to run w/ the positive and avoid he negetive B/S, w/ the exception of an occasional vent ot diatribe that I brighten everyone's day w/ here. Some day, I'll make the time, clear the desk, go out and buy a bottle of Zantac, and put together a cogent package that will go off to ICANN and that I'll share on the net. However, just thinking about the prospect of spending a day or so doing this, bums me out. I hope that it gets resolved within the registrar community, first, but when last I heard, there still wasn't a big market for popsicles in hell.

armstrong · 11-12-2005, 12:28 AM

I smell a class action brewing. Sign me up! Where's them lawyer types when you need them?

11-12-2005, 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by armstrong

I smell a class action brewing. Sign me up! Where's them lawyer types when you need them?

Sign me up as well. I have a folder to donate that is just itching to be opened. Inside the folder are the --Reg-Files--

.X. · 11-12-2005, 07:00 AM

Perhaps a class action law suit would stop this conduct,And i would most cetainly join in.It is under handed,It's being done for mere greed imo,It cost me atleast a couple of hours daily,as the names are available to only be regged before i can even complete the days drops.A log term solution to this problem is in order,Will it ever happen,I dunno,I can only hope it does.

Shorty · 11-12-2005, 07:20 AM

Registrars abusing power? Never! That's just shocking! </sarcasm>

But seriously, ICANN at least need to have some sort of complaint about this filed so they cant just say they knew nothing about it.

Macke · 11-12-2005, 07:24 AM

I don't think anything will happen anywhere soon. it's a hard task to collect together a lot of people for a lawsuit.

11-12-2005, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Macke

I don't think anything will happen anywhere soon. it's a hard task to collect together a lot of people for a lawsuit.

I agree- especially in this community. However, money, or lack thereof, has the power to make people do strange things. (Particularly, after the realization sinks in that the swiping is being done by people who own the same company/s that, purportedly, are in the business of providing them with services and who are, already, collecting a fair share of their revenue base from.) No one likes being taken advantage of and stepped on by people who want to be, at once, a service provider and a competitor. Somewhere, some people must have gotten the idea that it's OK to sell others a lunch and than eat it for them.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=139041

Don't the bozos realize that it don't work that way?

"Hey kid! I've been standing in line all day. Just because you're in bed with the Principal's daughter doesn't mean you can cut in and get a free ride. Just wait 'n see when what happens when the Principal finds out what you've been doing with his daughter!" (That is, assuming, that the Principal wants to hear about it, in the first place.)

jberryhill · 11-12-2005, 10:56 PM

Quote:

However, if you're able to prove a registrar has "kept" an expired name longer
than the 45-day limit, be sure to report it to ICANN and give as much proof
and details as possible.

Proof of what? Did you read the portion of the deletes policy which you quoted?

Let's have a replay of that, race fans:

At the conclusion of the registration period, failure by or on behalf of the Registered Name Holder to consent that the registration be renewed within the time specified in a second notice or reminder shall, in the absence of extenuating circumstances, result in cancellation of the registration by the end of the auto-renew grace period

The registrar can renew the name in accordance with the Registrant's consent. And where do these registrars obtain that consent? Same place as always. Turn with me now to the thrilling pages of the Enom registration agreement, for example:

http://www.enom.com/terms/agreement.asp

After expiration of the term of a domain name registration services and before deletion of the domain name in the applicable registry's database, you acknowledge that we may direct the domain name to name-servers and IP address(es) designated by us, including, without limitation, to no IP address or to IP address(es) which host a parking page or a commercial search engine that may display advertisements, and you acknowledge that we may either leave your WHOIS information intact or that we may change the contact information in the WHOIS output for the expired domain name so that you are no longer the listed registrant of the expired domain name.

After expiration of the term of domain name registration services, you acknowledge that certain registry administrators may provide procedures or grace periods during which expired domain name registrations may be renewed. You acknowledge that you assume all risks and all consequences if you wait until close to or after the end of a domain name registration term to attempt to renew the registration. You acknowledge that we, for any reason and in our sole discretion, may choose not to participate in a post-expiration renewal of a domain name and that we shall not be liable therefore. You acknowledge that post-expiration renewal or redemption processes, if any, involve additional fees which we and your Primary Service Provider may determine. You acknowledge and agree that expired domain name(s) may be made available to be registered or re-registered to any party at any time.

You agree that after expiration of the term of a domain name registration we may, for a period of 30 days, either i) remove the domain name from the zone of the top-level-domain (meaning that the domain name will no longer resolve), or ii) direct the domain name to name-servers and IP address(es) of website(s) designated by us, including, without limitation, to IP address(es) which host a parking page or a commercial search engine. You agree that either are functionally equivalent to ICANN's or a registry's redemption grace period, which would normally occur after deletion. If we exercise our rights under this provision, and if you do not transfer the domain name services to another registrar nor contact us to pay for and renew the domain name prior to the end of the 30 days, you agree that you have abandoned the domain name.

After this 30 day period, you agree that we may either (i) delete the domain name at any time thereafter or (ii) that we may pay the registry's registration free or otherwise allow it to continue to be registered with the WHOIS information previously provided by you and pointing to the name-server(s) and IP address(es) designated by us, and that we will not remove it from the TLD zone. In the latter event, the domain name will be designated as being in the extended redemption grace period ("ERGP"), and you will be allowed to assume, during the first 120 days of the then extant registration term, complete management of the domain name services, including the right to control the DNS information, provided that you pay a fee of $160 (US dollars). After the end of the 120-day period, if you do not exercise your rights under this provision, you agree that you have abandoned the domain name services, and relinquish all rights and use of the domain name services, and that you are no longer the registrant of the domain name, and that we may list ourselves or another party as the registrant of the domain name in the WHOIS information. If we exercise our rights under this provision and you do not wish to be listed as the registrant and you wish to forego your option under this provision to pay to renew the domain name registration services for the then-current registration term, you may notify us before the end of the 120-day period and request that we remove your information from the WHOIS record for the domain name, in which case we, or a third party we designate, will be listed as the registrant, and in which case you relinquish all rights and control over the domain name services, and in which case we may i) continue to point the domain name to IP address(es) designated by us, or ii) we may delete the domain name from the applicable registry's database.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=139041

Alternatively, if you do not contact us to renew the domain name registration services during the 30 day period described above, you agree that we may (i) delete the domain name at any time thereafter or (ii) we may put the domain name up for auction pursuant to the terms of our Pre-Release Names auction service, or (iii) pay the registry fee or otherwise allow it to continue to be registered with the WHOIS information previously provided by you and pointing to the name-server(s) and IP address(es) designated by us, and that we will not remove it from the TLD zone. In the latter event, the name will be designated as being in the extended redemption grace period ("ERGP"), and you will be allowed to assume, during the first 90 days of the then extant registration term, complete management of the domain name services, including the right to control the DNS information, provided that you pay a fee of $200 (US dollars). After the end of the 90-day period, if you do not exercise your rights under this provision, you agree that you have abandoned the domain name services, and relinquish all rights and use of the domain name services, and that you are no longer the registrant of the domain name, and that we may list ourselves or another party as the registrant of the domain name in the WHOIS information. If we exercise our rights under this provision and you do not wish to be listed as the registrant and you wish to forego your option under this provision to pay to renew the domain name registration services for the then-current registration term, you may notify us before the end of the 90-day period and request that we remove your information from the WHOIS record for the domain name, in which case we, or a third party we designate, will be listed as the registrant, and in which case you relinquish all rights and control over the domain name services, and in which case we may i) continue to point the domain name to IP address(es) designated by us, or ii) we may delete the domain name from the applicable registry's database.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=139041

So gang, let's review...

1. What does ICANN's Policy say? It says unless the registrant agrees to allow the name to be renewed, then the registrar has to delete the name.

2. What does Enom's registration agreement say? It says that when you register a name you agree to let them renew it when it expires.

Apply the answer to (2) to question (1), and where does that get you? It gets you to the point where you realize that the ICANN Deletes Policy has a loophole the size of the New Jersey Turnpike running through it, and if you look around you'll find that every other registrar has put a similar provision in their registration agreement.

End of story.

ICANN's registrar compliance people, and the registrar liaison Tim Cole, are fully and completely aware of this situation. I've been chewing Tim's ass on this subject for months, and I will be continuing to do so at the Vancouver ICANN meeting. If you think they are unaware of what's going on, or if you think that they are going to do anything about what's going on, then you are deluded.

armstrong · 11-13-2005, 07:25 AM

Quote:

3.7.4 Registrar shall not activate any Registered Name unless and until it is satisfied that it has received a reasonable assurance of payment of its registration fee. For this purpose, a charge to a credit card, general commercial terms extended to creditworthy customers, or other mechanism providing a similar level of assurance of payment shall be sufficient

In cases where they decided to hold on to a valuable domain, couldn't it be argued that the registrar received no "reasonable assurance of payment of its registration fee", and therefore must not activate the domain?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=139041

Also, I seem to recall a clause somewhere specifically forbidding registrars from speculating in domain names. But I couldn't find this anywhere now. Anyone here recall if there ever was such a clause?

BillyConnite · 11-13-2005, 07:40 AM

I have been following a group of 3 letter .us that should have dropped probably about a week ago i think, but still hsant either, i delted it lol

good ol' me, but i suspect something like this is going on too

**Dave Zan** · 11-13-2005, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by jberryhill

if you think that they are going to do anything about what's going on, then you are deluded.

Sigh, one can only wish. But I for one am not expecting anything to be done
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=139041
about it at all.

That's why I also included earlier there's no assurance ICANN will do anything
about it, either.

.X. · 11-13-2005, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by jberryhill

Proof of what? Did you read the portion of the deletes policy which you quoted?

Let's have a replay of that, race fans:

At the conclusion of the registration period, failure by or on behalf of the Registered Name Holder to consent that the registration be renewed within the time specified in a second notice or reminder shall, in the absence of extenuating circumstances, result in cancellation of the registration by the end of the auto-renew grace period

The registrar can renew the name in accordance with the Registrant's consent. And where do these registrars obtain that consent? Same place as always. Turn with me now to the thrilling pages of the Enom registration agreement, for example:

http://www.enom.com/terms/agreement.asp

After expiration of the term of a domain name registration services and before deletion of the domain name in the applicable registry's database, you acknowledge that we may direct the domain name to name-servers and IP address(es) designated by us, including, without limitation, to no IP address or to IP address(es) which host a parking page or a commercial search engine that may display advertisements, and you acknowledge that we may either leave your WHOIS information intact or that we may change the contact information in the WHOIS output for the expired domain name so that you are no longer the listed registrant of the expired domain name.

After expiration of the term of domain name registration services, you acknowledge that certain registry administrators may provide procedures or grace periods during which expired domain name registrations may be renewed. You acknowledge that you assume all risks and all consequences if you wait until close to or after the end of a domain name registration term to attempt to renew the registration. You acknowledge that we, for any reason and in our sole discretion, may choose not to participate in a post-expiration renewal of a domain name and that we shall not be liable therefore. You acknowledge that post-expiration renewal or redemption processes, if any, involve additional fees which we and your Primary Service Provider may determine. You acknowledge and agree that expired domain name(s) may be made available to be registered or re-registered to any party at any time.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=139041

You agree that after expiration of the term of a domain name registration we may, for a period of 30 days, either i) remove the domain name from the zone of the top-level-domain (meaning that the domain name will no longer resolve), or ii) direct the domain name to name-servers and IP address(es) of website(s) designated by us, including, without limitation, to IP address(es) which host a parking page or a commercial search engine. You agree that either are functionally equivalent to ICANN's or a registry's redemption grace period, which would normally occur after deletion. If we exercise our rights under this provision, and if you do not transfer the domain name services to another registrar nor contact us to pay for and renew the domain name prior to the end of the 30 days, you agree that you have abandoned the domain name.

After this 30 day period, you agree that we may either (i) delete the domain name at any time thereafter or (ii) that we may pay the registry's registration free or otherwise allow it to continue to be registered with the WHOIS information previously provided by you and pointing to the name-server(s) and IP address(es) designated by us, and that we will not remove it from the TLD zone. In the latter event, the domain name will be designated as being in the extended redemption grace period ("ERGP"), and you will be allowed to assume, during the first 120 days of the then extant registration term, complete management of the domain name services, including the right to control the DNS information, provided that you pay a fee of $160 (US dollars). After the end of the 120-day period, if you do not exercise your rights under this provision, you agree that you have abandoned the domain name services, and relinquish all rights and use of the domain name services, and that you are no longer the registrant of the domain name, and that we may list ourselves or another party as the registrant of the domain name in the WHOIS information. If we exercise our rights under this provision and you do not wish to be listed as the registrant and you wish to forego your option under this provision to pay to renew the domain name registration services for the then-current registration term, you may notify us before the end of the 120-day period and request that we remove your information from the WHOIS record for the domain name, in which case we, or a third party we designate, will be listed as the registrant, and in which case you relinquish all rights and control over the domain name services, and in which case we may i) continue to point the domain name to IP address(es) designated by us, or ii) we may delete the domain name from the applicable registry's database.

Alternatively, if you do not contact us to renew the domain name registration services during the 30 day period described above, you agree that we may (i) delete the domain name at any time thereafter or (ii) we may put the domain name up for auction pursuant to the terms of our Pre-Release Names auction service, or (iii) pay the registry fee or otherwise allow it to continue to be registered with the WHOIS information previously provided by you and pointing to the name-server(s) and IP address(es) designated by us, and that we will not remove it from the TLD zone. In the latter event, the name will be designated as being in the extended redemption grace period ("ERGP"), and you will be allowed to assume, during the first 90 days of the then extant registration term, complete management of the domain name services, including the right to control the DNS information, provided that you pay a fee of $200 (US dollars). After the end of the 90-day period, if you do not exercise your rights under this provision, you agree that you have abandoned the domain name services, and relinquish all rights and use of the domain name services, and that you are no longer the registrant of the domain name, and that we may list ourselves or another party as the registrant of the domain name in the WHOIS information. If we exercise our rights under this provision and you do not wish to be listed as the registrant and you wish to forego your option under this provision to pay to renew the domain name registration services for the then-current registration term, you may notify us before the end of the 90-day period and request that we remove your information from the WHOIS record for the domain name, in which case we, or a third party we designate, will be listed as the registrant, and in which case you relinquish all rights and control over the domain name services, and in which case we may i) continue to point the domain name to IP address(es) designated by us, or ii) we may delete the domain name from the applicable registry's database.

So gang, let's review...

1. What does ICANN's Policy say? It says unless the registrant agrees to allow the name to be renewed, then the registrar has to delete the name.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=139041

2. What does Enom's registration agreement say? It says that when you register a name you agree to let them renew it when it expires.

Apply the answer to (2) to question (1), and where does that get you? It gets you to the point where you realize that the ICANN Deletes Policy has a loophole the size of the New Jersey Turnpike running through it, and if you look around you'll find that every other registrar has put a similar provision in their registration agreement.

End of story.

ICANN's registrar compliance people, and the registrar liaison Tim Cole, are fully and completely aware of this situation. I've been chewing Tim's ass on this subject for months, and I will be continuing to do so at the Vancouver ICANN meeting. If you think they are unaware of what's going on, or if you think that they are going to do anything about what's going on, then you are deluded.

Excellent post,Thanks for sharing jBerrhill,Iam aware they know what's going on to an extent,I don't think they aware of all the money changing hands and all the under the table negoations that going on that i believe may be going on.However,To my kowledge,If they buy out names from a reg and they do it at the time of drop,They are not breaching ICANN policy,Nor are they breaking a law????? If you could respond on that it will be much appreciated,That is where my interest lies at the moment,I suspect the traffic buyers and snaps know the exact drop time of names on hold,And drops in general,Therefore making them the ones who will get the premuim dropped names virtually by default.If you could somewhat clarify the above it would be appreciated jBerrhill,Those are things iam somewhat unclear on.

11-14-2005, 12:18 AM

Quote:

if you think that they are going to do anything about what's going on, then you are deluded.

Quote:

Sigh, one can only wish. But I for one am not expecting anything to be done
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=139041
about it at all.
That's why I also included earlier there's no assurance ICANN will do anything
about it, either.

Hell-Fire! It's looking more and more like my scheme to franchise a string of popsicle stands down under ain't gonna fly.

~ICANNOT~ respond to what I don't want to see.~

Nothing like being involved in an "industry" that is going through it's adolescence "regulated" by a "governing body" w/ the mantras of Avoidance, Denial, and Ignorance, (both native, as well as, by design). Easy pickings if you got a leg up on the rest and are now positioned to milk the system.
Moo~Moo. Bahh~Bahh. Work-arounds - TOS agreements that blatantly contradict the guidelines, or rules, or covenants, umm... kind of like laws, but more like rules- but more like... uhh...what the h~ll are those things and under what or who's jurisdiction do they reside, anyways? Keep the muchrooms in the cellar- what they don't know can't hurt us. Duplicity- Self Absorbtion - Self-Interest - Greed- the Mother of all... Ethics? What ethics? Ethics are for the drones. What's good for one isn't good for me.

Ahh... The stuff that all great civilzations are built upon...

primacomputer · 11-14-2005, 09:24 PM

This isn’t a new problem but over the last six months to so I’ve also noticed that Godaddy has basically not let a single name drop. I actually let one of my less interesting names drop with them to see what happens.

The name goes into redemption period. You have 45 days or whatever to renew. It then goes into auction while remaining in redemption period. Two scams in one. Still in redemption period but you can’t redeem it, combined with a fraudulent sale of something they don’t own. The auction ends with it not being sold and it eventually goes into pending delete. I’m still waiting to see if the name will ever drop, or what they will do with it.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=139041

So the names are not being renewed, they are being sat on. This is fraud on a massive scale. Not only are they tying up names, they are tying up names without paying for them.

Has anyone tried backordering one of these names? I suspect that it might conveniently drop and be caught for you the second you paid your 18 bucks. If my name doesn’t drop within six months I’ll give this a try. I’m sure the lawyer who handles the class action will compensate me for my expense

11-15-2005, 07:04 AM

When you take a step back and think about it, the entire chain of events that follow what, essentially, is a non renewal of a lease, is idiotic, The series of steps that a name passes through that define it's "status" is a system that could only have come out of the "mind" of a bureaucrat.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=139041

A name is registered for X number of years with the option to renew it ad infinitum. At the end of X yrs, the leasee has the option to renew iease. If the option chosen is to not renew it, to give up the lease, than, the property is available for rental again. The agency that had been collecting the rent doesn't own the property, is not subletting the property, has no rights of possession to the property, and has no liens or easements attached to the property. When payments stop, the lease expires, and the property, once again, becomes available on the open market A new renter, w/ the assistance of an agent of his or her choosing, signs a new contract and the cycle continues.

The solution is to cut through all of the crap- if payment is not been received by the time it is due, it goes back to the registry. Wham-Bam. If there must be a grace period, 72 hours should suffice.

No longer will registrar's be charging an owner $200-$300 to "redeem" a domain! No longer will registrar's be holding onto a name to squeeze juice from it. No longer will registrars get a ticket for a5 day "test spin" of a domain name. Keep it lean and cut out all of the unnecessary, antiquated and fuzzy bureaucratic fat away from, what should be, a simple procedure to solve a straight forward matter.

gazzip · 11-15-2005, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Grrilla

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=139041
The solution is to cut through all of the crap- if payment is not been received by the time it is due, it goes back to the registry. Wham-Bam. If there must be a grace period, 72 hours should suffice.

No longer will registrar's be charging an owner $200-$300 to "redeem" a domain! No longer will registrar's be holding onto a name to squeeze juice from it. No longer will registrars get a ticket for a5 day "test spin" of a domain name. Keep it lean and cut out all of the unnecessary, antiquated and fuzzy bureaucratic fat away from, what should be, a simple procedure to solve a straight forward matter.

Agreed, that would be nice but it's not that likely unfortunately

11-15-2005, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Agreed, that would be nice but it's not that likely unfortunately

Not as long as the lunatics are allowed to run he asylum. Bureaucrats are all about setting up systems that are dense and circuitously designed ultimately, for the purpose of enhancing job security. Starting over with a clean slate is an anathema to them because if the system is simple and direct, there is no longer a need to have an office full of people shuffling stacks of paper around and bouncing email memos back and forth and holding board meetings where the order of the day is, "Well, do you think we should hold off on this agenda item and discuss it at a later meeting, so as to allow Herb's group more time to collect information on this? (zzz...)
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=139041

There are some redeeming attributes, however. Modifiying and building new layers onto an existing model requires departments filled w/ more people to help interpret and decycypher the system and aid in resolving issues and problems that may arrise, which does create jobs. Hmm... Come to think of it, this same structural model, reminds me alot of a computer operating system that I no longer use.

wot · 11-15-2005, 06:30 PM

Wots ICANN

Cyberian · 11-15-2005, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by wot

Wots ICANN

Wot, your 1500th post... perfect.

DomainSlayer · 11-15-2005, 09:26 PM

Boycott them. There a big company, but if enough people get livid things will change.

11-10-2005, 02:13 PM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
Grrilla Guest Posts: n/a	Regsquatting The way that registrars have entered and disrupted the drop market is maddening. My latest beef is w/ GoDaddy, (who appears to be the primary culprit among the major registrars), and involves the the double standard they apply to the time period they will hold a name, before letting it drop- if indeed, they are letting the better names drop at all. I've been following a name that expired on Sept 1st, and when I run a search I get this message: Whois Output Obtained From: whois.godaddy.com No match for "[example].com" in the registrar database. However, when I go to register the name, it shows up as not being available. I haven't gotten involved w/ their new auction system, but my guess is that this has something to do w/ the problem. Just what is the breakdown on their auction system? Are they cherrypicking the better names that expire, and than putting them up for auction? How long are they holding onto them if a sale doesn't occur? ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/139041-regsquatting.html When a name drops from the registry, the name should automatically enter the drop queue at the registrar and delete the queue cycle completes. Period. For a registrar to hold a name any longer than has a conflict of interest, plain and simple. They have been paid for the service they provided- they don't own the name or have any special rights to it. So why do some names, (the less attractive ones seem to drop right on schedule, while others, (the ones worth picking up), dawdle about and never seem to cut loose? This is just one more situation that is part of a long string of incidents, that makes me happy that, about 10 mos ago, I decided to transfer out all of my names registered w/ Grabdaddy. Another month or so to go, they will be out of my life, and they can.... Last edited by Grrilla; 11-10-2005 at 02:17 PM.

11-12-2005, 12:28 AM	#7 (permalink)
armstrong Man from Manila Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Net Posts: 6,025	I smell a class action brewing. Sign me up! Where's them lawyer types when you need them? __________________ Apollo's excellent 3-letter .BIZ auction; $1 starting bid!

11-12-2005, 07:00 AM	#9 (permalink)
.X. Revolution Calling! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NamePros Avenue Posts: 5,807	Perhaps a class action law suit would stop this conduct,And i would most cetainly join in.It is under handed,It's being done for mere greed imo,It cost me atleast a couple of hours daily,as the names are available to only be regged before i can even complete the days drops.A log term solution to this problem is in order,Will it ever happen,I dunno,I can only hope it does. Last edited by -X-; 11-12-2005 at 07:03 AM.

11-12-2005, 07:24 AM	#11 (permalink)
Macke NamePros Regular Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 266	I don't think anything will happen anywhere soon. it's a hard task to collect together a lot of people for a lawsuit. __________________ Websites: Ft.se \| Online Forex \| --> Be seen online by Millimeter Media \|

11-13-2005, 07:40 AM	#15 (permalink)
BillyConnite Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Coffs H, Australia Posts: 3,456	I have been following a group of 3 letter .us that should have dropped probably about a week ago i think, but still hsant either, i delted it lol good ol' me, but i suspect something like this is going on too __________________ Free Forums / GoDaddy Coupon Codes (NEW DOMAIN!) / Free Arcade Script / <?='Your computer is '.(1?fine:broken).'.'?>

11-10-2005, 03:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
Flaresolutions NamePros Regular Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: UK Posts: 462	With all the drop name services that are available its basically impossible to catch any prime domains that drop now. Now with the numerous registrars (netsol have always been the worst) that arent letting the domains drop on time its an awkward situation.

11-10-2005, 03:29 PM	#3 (permalink)
gazzip First Time Poster ! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: GB Posts: 6,881	I also wonder if Godaddy is doing this - just a couple of weeks ago I attempted to buy the domain name equineproperty(dot)com from their expiring domains list. I had been watching the domain for a while and there were no bids until a few hrs toward the end when someone placed a $10 bid - just before the end I attempted to place my bid of $30 but for some reason it kept asking me to confirm, i ticked the box quite a few times but it did'nt seem to want to take it ??? ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=139041 I may be totally wrong but I think they kept it as they did'nt want to sell it for that ?? Maybe someone can enlighten me on this issue. please What exactly is REGISTRA-LOCK ?? The domain currently shows this in the whois: Registrar: GO DADDY SOFTWARE, INC. Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com Name Server: PARK17.SECURESERVER.NET Name Server: PARK18.SECURESERVER.NET Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK Updated Date: 10-oct-2005 Creation Date: 05-oct-2003 Expiration Date: 05-oct-2006

11-12-2005, 12:08 AM	THREAD STARTER #6 (permalink)
Grrilla Guest Posts: n/a	For what it's worth, I've made html copies of several whois search pgs that demonstrate instances where 45 das have passed after a name has expired, and weeks, sometimes a month+ later, the name is still unavail. to register. There is a never-neverland that exists that I haven't figured out. The whois will show the expiry date and the registrar where it "was" registered at and a "Not found on Server" message appears. However, when attempting to register it at other registrars, their whois shows that it is unavail. I'm going to attempt to reg at more than the 2 registrars that I have already tried, just to test it further. Additionally, I have emails from registrars w/ offers to sell names that had dropped and, than, were subsequenly released within the 5 da grace period after I didn't respond. In one instance, I had actually used a cheapy drop service to fetch the name for me and had lost it. The name in question, Grrilla_com really has no commercial value, which makes me suspect that the registrar picked up on it here at the forum, as my plan to pick it up was mentioned in a thread. I also have a copy of a thread that I picked up on (from a location that shall remain undisclosed, for the time being), where several registrars were debating this issue after it was proposed by some members that this practice should be curtailed and regulated. The rebuttals coming from those who were defending their practice, basically w/ the defense that the practice was central to their "business model", were particularly revealing. I have a folder that is beginning to get fat, that I have been saving materials that document this, as well as, a variety of other practices that , IMO, are underhanded, unethical and, inexplicably, continue to go on unchecked and unregulated. I have planned to put this info up on a site for sometime but, frankly, this whole business gives me heartburn everytime I think about it or run across new instances of abuse. I have other projects that absorb and inspire me, rather than depress me. So, my pref is to run w/ the positive and avoid he negetive B/S, w/ the exception of an occasional vent ot diatribe that I brighten everyone's day w/ here. Some day, I'll make the time, clear the desk, go out and buy a bottle of Zantac, and put together a cogent package that will go off to ICANN and that I'll share on the net. However, just thinking about the prospect of spending a day or so doing this, bums me out. I hope that it gets resolved within the registrar community, first, but when last I heard, there still wasn't a big market for popsicles in hell.

11-12-2005, 07:20 AM	#10 (permalink)
Shorty Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: England Posts: 1,034	Registrars abusing power? Never! That's just shocking! </sarcasm> But seriously, ICANN at least need to have some sort of complaint about this filed so they cant just say they knew nothing about it.

11-14-2005, 09:24 PM	#19 (permalink)
primacomputer Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,402	This isn’t a new problem but over the last six months to so I’ve also noticed that Godaddy has basically not let a single name drop. I actually let one of my less interesting names drop with them to see what happens. The name goes into redemption period. You have 45 days or whatever to renew. It then goes into auction while remaining in redemption period. Two scams in one. Still in redemption period but you can’t redeem it, combined with a fraudulent sale of something they don’t own. The auction ends with it not being sold and it eventually goes into pending delete. I’m still waiting to see if the name will ever drop, or what they will do with it. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=139041 So the names are not being renewed, they are being sat on. This is fraud on a massive scale. Not only are they tying up names, they are tying up names without paying for them. Has anyone tried backordering one of these names? I suspect that it might conveniently drop and be caught for you the second you paid your 18 bucks. If my name doesn’t drop within six months I’ll give this a try. I’m sure the lawyer who handles the class action will compensate me for my expense

11-15-2005, 07:04 AM	THREAD STARTER #20 (permalink)
Grrilla Guest Posts: n/a	When you take a step back and think about it, the entire chain of events that follow what, essentially, is a non renewal of a lease, is idiotic, The series of steps that a name passes through that define it's "status" is a system that could only have come out of the "mind" of a bureaucrat. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=139041 A name is registered for X number of years with the option to renew it ad infinitum. At the end of X yrs, the leasee has the option to renew iease. If the option chosen is to not renew it, to give up the lease, than, the property is available for rental again. The agency that had been collecting the rent doesn't own the property, is not subletting the property, has no rights of possession to the property, and has no liens or easements attached to the property. When payments stop, the lease expires, and the property, once again, becomes available on the open market A new renter, w/ the assistance of an agent of his or her choosing, signs a new contract and the cycle continues. The solution is to cut through all of the crap- if payment is not been received by the time it is due, it goes back to the registry. Wham-Bam. If there must be a grace period, 72 hours should suffice. No longer will registrar's be charging an owner $200-$300 to "redeem" a domain! No longer will registrar's be holding onto a name to squeeze juice from it. No longer will registrars get a ticket for a5 day "test spin" of a domain name. Keep it lean and cut out all of the unnecessary, antiquated and fuzzy bureaucratic fat away from, what should be, a simple procedure to solve a straight forward matter. Last edited by Grrilla; 11-15-2005 at 07:19 AM.

11-15-2005, 06:30 PM	#23 (permalink)
wot NamePros Expert Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Golden Triangle Posts: 5,776	Wots ICANN __________________ Perú.co,上海.biz,红旗.com,MonikerBlog.com 247.in,888Blog.com,México.co,中国888.com

11-15-2005, 09:26 PM	#25 (permalink)
DomainSlayer NamePros Regular Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 597	Boycott them. There a big company, but if enough people get livid things will change. __________________ *"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety." Ben Franklin* Keep America Free for You and Me!! Play Poker HERE

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