The way that registrars have entered and disrupted the drop market is maddening.
My latest beef is w/ GoDaddy, (who appears to be the primary culprit among the major registrars), and involves the the double standard they apply to the time period they will hold a name, before letting it drop- if indeed, they are letting the better names drop at all.
I've been following a name that expired on Sept 1st, and when I run a search I get this message:
Whois Output Obtained From: whois.godaddy.com
No match for "[example].com" in the registrar database.
However, when I go to register the name, it shows up as not being available. I haven't gotten involved w/ their new auction system, but my guess is that this has something to do w/ the problem.
Just what is the breakdown on their auction system? Are they cherrypicking the better names that expire, and than putting them up for auction? How long are they holding onto them if a sale doesn't occur?
When a name drops from the registry, the name should automatically enter the drop queue at the registrar and delete the queue cycle completes. Period. For a registrar to hold a name any longer than has a conflict of interest, plain and simple. They have been paid for the service they provided- they don't own the name or have any special rights to it. So why do some names, (the less attractive ones seem to drop right on schedule, while others, (the ones worth picking up), dawdle about and never seem to cut loose?
This is just one more situation that is part of a long string of incidents, that makes me happy that, about 10 mos ago, I decided to transfer out all of my names registered w/ Grabdaddy. Another month or so to go, they will be out of my life, and they can....
With all the drop name services that are available its basically impossible to catch any prime domains that drop now. Now with the numerous registrars (netsol have always been the worst) that arent letting the domains drop on time its an awkward situation.
I also wonder if Godaddy is doing this - just a couple of weeks ago I attempted to buy the domain name equineproperty(dot)com from their expiring domains list.
I had been watching the domain for a while and there were no bids until a few hrs toward the end when someone placed a $10 bid - just before the end I attempted to place my bid of $30 but for some reason it kept asking me to confirm, i ticked the box quite a few times but it did'nt seem to want to take it ???
I may be totally wrong but I think they kept it as they did'nt want to sell it for that ?? Maybe someone can enlighten me on this issue. please
What exactly is REGISTRA-LOCK ??
The domain currently shows this in the whois:
Registrar: GO DADDY SOFTWARE, INC.
Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com
Name Server: PARK17.SECURESERVER.NET
Name Server: PARK18.SECURESERVER.NET
Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
Updated Date: 10-oct-2005
Creation Date: 05-oct-2003
Expiration Date: 05-oct-2006
The registrar can do anything to the expired domain name while it's within its
so-called "grace period". But they'll no longer have a say once the name has
been deleted except to redeem it or try to catch it for its customer when it's
available.
However, if you're able to prove a registrar has "kept" an expired name longer
than the 45-day limit, be sure to report it to ICANN and give as much proof
and details as possible.
Then again, there's no assurance ICANN will do anything about it, either.
So until ICANN, a Court of competent jurisdiction, or a specific law gives the
final say on this, there's not really much we can do.
Indeed Grrilla,I couldn't agree more,And i have felt your pain,Being in the business of deleted domain names,I hear alot of different rumors in the drop industry,some i find to true,others just rumors.One that is a fact and i know to be true,The traffic snaps are buying all the names,to only drop what they don't want 3 to 4 days later.ICANN can not regulate what they don't know about,This is the case in drops the last few months,It has been a common practice for reges to sell off thier stock of deleted names,Some ask,How is this possible,Specific drop times,Names don't just drop once daily as some may think,Many names are on "on hold" status with verisign,They can drop multiple times daily as verisign releases them,some on hold for over 12 months.With TDNAM now a money maker for godaddy,why would they let a premuim DN in thier deleted API get away,They wont.So in a nutshell,It's money changing hands,The traffic buyers getting all the premuim drops,Dropping what they dont want a few days later.Anyone ever wonder why Pool has a majority of the best selection of premuim names available to bid on I wish i could cover this more with exact specifics,Names and ect,Unfortuantly i can't.Never the less,The way it is being done is legal,But very unethical imo
For what it's worth, I've made html copies of several whois search pgs that demonstrate instances where 45 das have passed after a name has expired, and weeks, sometimes a month+ later, the name is still unavail. to register. There is a never-neverland that exists that I haven't figured out. The whois will show the expiry date and the registrar where it "was" registered at and a "Not found on Server" message appears. However, when attempting to register it at other registrars, their whois shows that it is unavail. I'm going to attempt to reg at more than the 2 registrars that I have already tried, just to test it further.
Additionally, I have emails from registrars w/ offers to sell names that had dropped and, than, were subsequenly released within the 5 da grace period after I didn't respond. In one instance, I had actually used a cheapy drop service to fetch the name for me and had lost it. The name in question, Grrilla_com really has no commercial value, which makes me suspect that the registrar picked up on it here at the forum, as my plan to pick it up was mentioned in a thread.
I also have a copy of a thread that I picked up on (from a location that shall remain undisclosed, for the time being), where several registrars were debating this issue after it was proposed by some members that this practice should be curtailed and regulated. The rebuttals coming from those who were defending their practice, basically w/ the defense that the practice was central to their "business model", were particularly revealing.
I have a folder that is beginning to get fat, that I have been saving materials that document this, as well as, a variety of other practices that , IMO, are underhanded, unethical and, inexplicably, continue to go on unchecked and unregulated. I have planned to put this info up on a site for sometime but, frankly, this whole business gives me heartburn everytime I think about it or run across new instances of abuse. I have other projects that absorb and inspire me, rather than depress me. So, my pref is to run w/ the positive and avoid he negetive B/S, w/ the exception of an occasional vent ot diatribe that I brighten everyone's day w/ here. Some day, I'll make the time, clear the desk, go out and buy a bottle of Zantac, and put together a cogent package that will go off to ICANN and that I'll share on the net. However, just thinking about the prospect of spending a day or so doing this, bums me out. I hope that it gets resolved within the registrar community, first, but when last I heard, there still wasn't a big market for popsicles in hell.
Perhaps a class action law suit would stop this conduct,And i would most cetainly join in.It is under handed,It's being done for mere greed imo,It cost me atleast a couple of hours daily,as the names are available to only be regged before i can even complete the days drops.A log term solution to this problem is in order,Will it ever happen,I dunno,I can only hope it does.
I agree- especially in this community. However, money, or lack thereof, has the power to make people do strange things. (Particularly, after the realization sinks in that the swiping is being done by people who own the same company/s that, purportedly, are in the business of providing them with services and who are, already, collecting a fair share of their revenue base from.) No one likes being taken advantage of and stepped on by people who want to be, at once, a service provider and a competitor. Somewhere, some people must have gotten the idea that it's OK to sell others a lunch and than eat it for them.
Don't the bozos realize that it don't work that way?
"Hey kid! I've been standing in line all day. Just because you're in bed with the Principal's daughter doesn't mean you can cut in and get a free ride. Just wait 'n see when what happens when the Principal finds out what you've been doing with his daughter!" (That is, assuming, that the Principal wants to hear about it, in the first place.)
Proof of what? Did you read the portion of the deletes policy which you quoted?
Let's have a replay of that, race fans:
At the conclusion of the registration period, failure by or on behalf of the Registered Name Holder to consent that the registration be renewed within the time specified in a second notice or reminder shall, in the absence of extenuating circumstances, result in cancellation of the registration by the end of the auto-renew grace period
The registrar can renew the name in accordance with the Registrant's consent. And where do these registrars obtain that consent? Same place as always. Turn with me now to the thrilling pages of the Enom registration agreement, for example:
After expiration of the term of a domain name registration services and before deletion of the domain name in the applicable registry's database, you acknowledge that we may direct the domain name to name-servers and IP address(es) designated by us, including, without limitation, to no IP address or to IP address(es) which host a parking page or a commercial search engine that may display advertisements, and you acknowledge that we may either leave your WHOIS information intact or that we may change the contact information in the WHOIS output for the expired domain name so that you are no longer the listed registrant of the expired domain name.
After expiration of the term of domain name registration services, you acknowledge that certain registry administrators may provide procedures or grace periods during which expired domain name registrations may be renewed. You acknowledge that you assume all risks and all consequences if you wait until close to or after the end of a domain name registration term to attempt to renew the registration. You acknowledge that we, for any reason and in our sole discretion, may choose not to participate in a post-expiration renewal of a domain name and that we shall not be liable therefore. You acknowledge that post-expiration renewal or redemption processes, if any, involve additional fees which we and your Primary Service Provider may determine. You acknowledge and agree that expired domain name(s) may be made available to be registered or re-registered to any party at any time.
You agree that after expiration of the term of a domain name registration we may, for a period of 30 days, either i) remove the domain name from the zone of the top-level-domain (meaning that the domain name will no longer resolve), or ii) direct the domain name to name-servers and IP address(es) of website(s) designated by us, including, without limitation, to IP address(es) which host a parking page or a commercial search engine. You agree that either are functionally equivalent to ICANN's or a registry's redemption grace period, which would normally occur after deletion. If we exercise our rights under this provision, and if you do not transfer the domain name services to another registrar nor contact us to pay for and renew the domain name prior to the end of the 30 days, you agree that you have abandoned the domain name.
After this 30 day period, you agree that we may either (i) delete the domain name at any time thereafter or (ii) that we may pay the registry's registration free or otherwise allow it to continue to be registered with the WHOIS information previously provided by you and pointing to the name-server(s) and IP address(es) designated by us, and that we will not remove it from the TLD zone. In the latter event, the domain name will be designated as being in the extended redemption grace period ("ERGP"), and you will be allowed to assume, during the first 120 days of the then extant registration term, complete management of the domain name services, including the right to control the DNS information, provided that you pay a fee of $160 (US dollars). After the end of the 120-day period, if you do not exercise your rights under this provision, you agree that you have abandoned the domain name services, and relinquish all rights and use of the domain name services, and that you are no longer the registrant of the domain name, and that we may list ourselves or another party as the registrant of the domain name in the WHOIS information. If we exercise our rights under this provision and you do not wish to be listed as the registrant and you wish to forego your option under this provision to pay to renew the domain name registration services for the then-current registration term, you may notify us before the end of the 120-day period and request that we remove your information from the WHOIS record for the domain name, in which case we, or a third party we designate, will be listed as the registrant, and in which case you relinquish all rights and control over the domain name services, and in which case we may i) continue to point the domain name to IP address(es) designated by us, or ii) we may delete the domain name from the applicable registry's database.
Alternatively, if you do not contact us to renew the domain name registration services during the 30 day period described above, you agree that we may (i) delete the domain name at any time thereafter or (ii) we may put the domain name up for auction pursuant to the terms of our Pre-Release Names auction service, or (iii) pay the registry fee or otherwise allow it to continue to be registered with the WHOIS information previously provided by you and pointing to the name-server(s) and IP address(es) designated by us, and that we will not remove it from the TLD zone. In the latter event, the name will be designated as being in the extended redemption grace period ("ERGP"), and you will be allowed to assume, during the first 90 days of the then extant registration term, complete management of the domain name services, including the right to control the DNS information, provided that you pay a fee of $200 (US dollars). After the end of the 90-day period, if you do not exercise your rights under this provision, you agree that you have abandoned the domain name services, and relinquish all rights and use of the domain name services, and that you are no longer the registrant of the domain name, and that we may list ourselves or another party as the registrant of the domain name in the WHOIS information. If we exercise our rights under this provision and you do not wish to be listed as the registrant and you wish to forego your option under this provision to pay to renew the domain name registration services for the then-current registration term, you may notify us before the end of the 90-day period and request that we remove your information from the WHOIS record for the domain name, in which case we, or a third party we designate, will be listed as the registrant, and in which case you relinquish all rights and control over the domain name services, and in which case we may i) continue to point the domain name to IP address(es) designated by us, or ii) we may delete the domain name from the applicable registry's database.
So gang, let's review...
1. What does ICANN's Policy say? It says unless the registrant agrees to allow the name to be renewed, then the registrar has to delete the name.
2. What does Enom's registration agreement say? It says that when you register a name you agree to let them renew it when it expires.
Apply the answer to (2) to question (1), and where does that get you? It gets you to the point where you realize that the ICANN Deletes Policy has a loophole the size of the New Jersey Turnpike running through it, and if you look around you'll find that every other registrar has put a similar provision in their registration agreement.
End of story.
ICANN's registrar compliance people, and the registrar liaison Tim Cole, are fully and completely aware of this situation. I've been chewing Tim's ass on this subject for months, and I will be continuing to do so at the Vancouver ICANN meeting. If you think they are unaware of what's going on, or if you think that they are going to do anything about what's going on, then you are deluded.
Last edited by jberryhill : 11-12-2005 at 10:00 PM.
In cases where they decided to hold on to a valuable domain, couldn't it be argued that the registrar received no "reasonable assurance of payment of its registration fee", and therefore must not activate the domain?
Also, I seem to recall a clause somewhere specifically forbidding registrars from speculating in domain names. But I couldn't find this anywhere now. Anyone here recall if there ever was such a clause?
I have been following a group of 3 letter .us that should have dropped probably about a week ago i think, but still hsant either, i delted it lol good ol' me, but i suspect something like this is going on too
Excellent post,Thanks for sharing jBerrhill,Iam aware they know what's going on to an extent,I don't think they aware of all the money changing hands and all the under the table negoations that going on that i believe may be going on.However,To my kowledge,If they buy out names from a reg and they do it at the time of drop,They are not breaching ICANN policy,Nor are they breaking a law????? If you could respond on that it will be much appreciated,That is where my interest lies at the moment,I suspect the traffic buyers and snaps know the exact drop time of names on hold,And drops in general,Therefore making them the ones who will get the premuim dropped names virtually by default.If you could somewhat clarify the above it would be appreciated jBerrhill,Those are things iam somewhat unclear on.
please
I wish i could cover this more with exact specifics,Names and ect,Unfortuantly i can't.Never the less,The way it is being done is legal,But very unethical imo
