what does an average domainer make a year? - Page 2

bmugford · 01-04-2012, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by carob

Domains only have value if there is demand and scarcity, so it is true the winning domainers and registrars and auction houses all need to keep getting new players into the game. A bit like the tobacco industry?

It depends what your business model is.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-newbies/742252-what-does-average-domainer-make-year.html

If you have quality domains, there will always be end user demand, so the "domainer" world is almost irrelevant.

Brad

sdsinc · 01-04-2012, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by MicroGuy

A thorough understanding of basic economic theory would also be helpful to many.

I can try to explain things in simple terms

Simply put, the supply of domains by far exceeds the actual demand. It's difficult to sell stuff that nobody wants. If you find a 'great' domain name that is available, it probably means nobody needs it. In general people don't want to pay more than regfee for a domain. They will only buy for a good reason ie. you have a really great domain that they need for their business.

Of course there are exceptions like names that just dropped, but in general the best domains are already taken.
If you want them, you need to go the right places. They won't always be cheap. The point is not to pay a low price, but to pay a price that leaves room for a good return.
It takes money to make money.

The bottom line is that the market for domain names is limited, after all not everybody needs one, and very few people will buy one on the aftermarket. For that reason, it is necessary to focus on quality because there is no demand for bad domains.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=742252

If you are short on funds and unable to invest you may be able to find a niche.
For example some people sell domain lists.
Some are service providers.
Others broker domain names owned by third parties.
Everybody has got skills, you just have to find where to put them in practice.

GF · 01-04-2012, 12:30 PM

The average domainer? They make nothing. In fact, they lose hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars a year buying crappy domains.

Those of us who are above-average? Those are the incomes you want to know about.

carltonleon · 01-24-2012, 04:58 AM

Great Thread Guys. Really insightful and thought provoking.
I am just coming back into domaining after a long absense and I wasn't massively successful to begin with but I did manage to limit my losses and sell a few domains.
What I have decided this time around is that I am not going to buy anything until I research domaining again for a few months to get a feel for it again and then to stick to .coms to begin with and to peruse the expired lists instead of new hand regs. Well that is my plan anyway, we will see.

domainerdon · 01-30-2012, 03:12 PM

I think that we are dealing with the "brass ring" syndrome here for the average domainer. They play the game and they are willing to take losses because they hope for that "big score" they can retire on. If you do it as a business there needs to be a business plan, a work schedule (don't expect to make it big if you are not willing to put in the time) education and perseverance. Yes, there is money to be made, but it is definately not a get rich scheme.

alien51 · 01-31-2012, 02:07 AM

A huge part of Domaining, is based on Speculation. There's no business model behind it. That's why a lot of people are actively peddling their domains, blasting inboxes with hundreds of thousands of email spam.

A lot of people disregard the statistics. They only see the domain sales posted on websites. But never saw the larger picture that billions of others dropped their domains with no buyer.

Speculation works best in a virgin industry. Once the industry is saturated (or buyers have matured), it becomes more difficult to speculate for profit.

sdsinc · 01-31-2012, 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by alien51

A huge part of Domaining, is based on Speculation. There's no business model behind it.

Most domainers don't have a business model because they approach it like a hobby. But domaining should be treated like any business.
There should be a business plan as said above.

Domain sales are unpredictable, but the odds increase considerably when you have quality domains. So, if you have good inventory you will be making sales on a regular basis. The money will also pay for renewals and maintain unsold domains. Because the margins are high on domain names, that's what I like in this business.

And of course, you always have to trim your portfolio. The domains that make no revenue and remain unsold after N years will probably be eliminated, unless you develop them.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=742252
Cutting losses is essential in any business.
I think many domainers are failing on that because they are either infatuated with their domains or lacking objectivity.

To sum up the idea is to make calculated and educated decisions vs pure speculation.
It can be done.
Companies such Buydomains & Hugedomains are doing just that on an industrial scale.

carob · 01-31-2012, 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by bmugford

It depends what your business model is.

If you have quality domains, there will always be end user demand, so the "domainer" world is almost irrelevant.

Brad

I largely agree, but consider what happens when good domains are unregistered.

If thecloud.com mycloud.com realcloud.com and cloud1.com are all unregistered, does that have an effect on the value of cloud.com? If you owned cloud.com then would you buy those up to profit or even just protect cloud.com?

---------- Post added at 10:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 AM ----------

Originally Posted by alien51

A huge part of Domaining, is based on Speculation.

Yes, speculation also in the sense of trying to guess what words or areas will be big in domains in the future. Words have magic power and can be powerful. I am surprised at some of the unattractive speculative registrations that might have SEO value on a bad day but just create awful sounding addresses.

alien51 · 01-31-2012, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by sdsinc

Most domainers don't have a business model because they approach it like a hobby.

Well, not really a hobby, but i think they speculate too much. The belief that "this must be worth something to somebody-- now to find THAT somebody. Where the hell is he? Guess i'll just spam the entire internet to find where he is."

Originally Posted by sdsinc

So, if you have good inventory you will be making sales on a regular basis. The money will also pay for renewals and maintain unsold domains. Because the margins are high on domain names, that's what I like in this business.

Which means, you need to cough up some moolah and buy expensive quality domains (most likely from other domainers). You buy a domain worth 300 bucks, resell it for 600 bucks. That's a great margin. Buy one-word domain for 1 million dollars, resell it for 2 million. That's a million dollar profit. That's how SEX.COM got passed from one domainer to another, without really benefitting any pervs out there.

But what are the chances that you pick up a domain at reg fee from the drop pool and resell it (no development done) at astronomical margins? True, there may be hundreds who sell reg fee domains at profit. But on the other side of the coin, millions of others are just plain losers who are unable to sell their stuff.

elias75 · 01-31-2012, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by alien51

Well, not really a hobby, but i think they speculate too much. The belief that "this must be worth something to somebody-- now to find THAT somebody. Where the hell is he? Guess i'll just spam the entire internet to find where he is."

+1
too many people think they can get rich overnight... mind you, there are loads of how-to-become-a-millionaire-flipping-domains ebooks/methods all around promising the world. IMO most newbie domainers fail to realise how fast this industry is changing

alien51 · 01-31-2012, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by elias75

+1
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=742252
mind you, there are loads of how-to-become-a-millionaire-flipping-domains ebooks/methods all around promising the world.

Because they make more money flipping these e-books, than actually flipping domains.

MikeRibby · 01-31-2012, 10:14 PM

Wow! Great thread guys! Lot's of great info!

I sold my first domain last year, a hand regd real estate. Com. Sold to end user within 2 days for $50! I was ecstatic! Then my mind started running, "wow, if I do that 19 more times this week, I'm golden"! Well it didn't work that way. Its quite a slow process that doesn't make sense if you are looking at it as $ per hour figure. Its more fun when its a hobby...

Good luck man!

RaiderGirl · 02-11-2012, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Keith

For the majority it's a matter of how much the yearly loss is.

May I ask what your basing this on? I can see where newbies take a loss, not knowing what domains to register and buying up a load of crappy domains, or choosing a TLD they predict will be the next dot com, I can see that.. But for the average domainer who knows what names to register and how to monetize on them, it's not that difficult to cover your renewal fees, hosting fees and development costs.. I've been in this biz for well over 10 years now and can honestly say I have never once taken a yearly loss.

Keith · 02-11-2012, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by RaiderGirl

May I ask what your basing this on? I can see where newbies take a loss, not knowing what domains to register and buying up a load of crappy domains, or choosing a TLD they predict will be the next dot com, I can see that.. But for the average domainer who knows what names to register and how to monetize on them, it's not that difficult to cover your renewal fees, hosting fees and development costs.. I've been in this biz for well over 10 years now and can honestly say I have never once taken a yearly loss.

I base my opinion on the thousands of worthless domains that drop every day. Some of which have been renewed year after year.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=742252

The fact that you have never taken a loss puts you in the minority. I've been at it for 7 years and this year was my first profitable year. I actually made up for all my losses in one year! Lucky me

It seems like many folks register domains based on a dream. They fail to realize that it takes years to understand the complexity of this business. It's much more than simply registering a domain name

srisri24 · 02-19-2012, 08:01 AM

In the last Five years of my domaining, i have lost over $5000. This is because, i registered ordinary names and kept on renewing them. For some good names, i paid more than reseller prices.
During LLLL.com buyout and post buyout, i paid $40-$80 per domain to aquire in the aftermarket. Paid again renewals for 4-5 years. Now its becoming hard to sell at $25 per name.
At one time i was paying renewals for over 500 domains, now my portfolio is at 120. I am planning to bring it down to 50-60 in the next 5 to 6 months time.

tradingdavid · 02-20-2012, 05:28 PM

I've spent about 1500 last 6 months Got 4 sales totaling approx 3k so I'm happy. It's not a career. I do seo and site development as well so having a nice domain portfolio fits. I'm trying to think of some way to monetize them.

rollsy · 03-12-2012, 03:46 PM

So many true words in this thread!

I consider myself to be a newbie again, after first being a newbie a few years ago (and then letting 90% of domains expire after a year or so keeping only a few personally relevant ones).
The reason I got into domain speculation originally: I purchased a couple domain names to start a genuine business, but during the pre-launch stage I was contacted by someone wanting the name. They asked if I was willing to sell the domain. I replied "Sure, $5000 please." We ended settling on $3500.

I presumed this was a simple process and would result in untold riches for very little time or money invested. So, I proceeded to register about 150 domain names at about $7 each (without developing - did not have the tech skills). and spent untold hours looking over their meagre parking revenue on a daily basis (earned about $50 p.a.). I managed to sell two other domains, for a total of $90 (as you can see, if I take the first big sale out of the picture, that was not a sustainable business plan).
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=742252

Suffice to say, the lucky results can come along for newbies like me on rare occasions (as happened with my first domain), but don't expect to be able to replicate it!

This time around, I plan to concentrate on two or three niches I know a lot about, choose only real words or short "natural phrases", try to develop them a bit, and try to sell a few. First step: find out how to develop the sites well and improve their traffic. Would any of the experienced folk here suggest hosting topical forums as a good way to build traffic?

tony5885t · 03-25-2012, 01:18 PM

I thing domineer is like every profession-You have to spend time to learn and with a bit of a luck you can make a good $$$$$ -learning is the thing!!

mcdonna · 03-25-2012, 02:26 PM

I look at domaining as a way to support my own domain acquisition habits. I am a web developer by profession, and on the side I like to build random websites for myself or friends or charities. Over the last 10 years I've sold around 20 domains at prices from $30 to $2000, mostly in the $100-$500 range. That's been enough to pay for registrations for my own sites and donated sites.

Make a living from domaining, however? Doable, but it's like taking any hobby to a profession. Lots of work and study, and you don't buy domains just because you like them. You have to attack it purely as a business.

SK1990 · 03-25-2012, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by alien51

Because they make more money flipping these e-books, than actually flipping domains.

The only true get rich quick scheme is selling get rich quick schemes

ytodoeso · 03-25-2012, 07:34 PM

hello, this is a very interesting thread, I'm kind of a newbie too, as a matter of fact I have never sold a domain name, I'm just starting placing some of my domains for sale on Sedo, but I'm also developing them because during the last 5 or 6 years I have made enough from affiliate programs to renew my domain portfolio and to pay for my hosting (so my wife keeps telling me it's an useless hobby, but at least she can't complain about me throwing money down the toilet or something...)

I can't say I've had profits from it, because I invest a lot of time with my sites and they just give enough money to renew the domain names and pay for the hosting every year, but considering that in my country there are just 2 or 3 affiliate programs (and that it's not possible to withdraw money from my Paypal account...), I think I've done pretty well...

I'd love to make a living out of this, spending more time at home and having more time to practice my guitar skills a few hours a day (I still suck, after 15 years doing it...), and maybe that's not impossible, but I guess I'll have to learn a lot about the domain market to be able to really profit from this...
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=742252

so I don't have an answer to the initial question, but I can't say that I have lost money, even considering that I've never sold a domain, and that I have let a few names drop during the years...

mazzinni · 04-10-2012, 10:24 PM

all business loss money any business loss money if you are not ready to loss don't play the game that's why you need to have back up, do you think you will win a game with no game plan that's if you want to do any business if you want to start any business be preparated to loss if you are not don't even try

dcristo · 04-10-2012, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by Keith

I base my opinion on the thousands of worthless domains that drop every day. Some of which have been renewed year after year.

Thats placing all people who register domains in the domainer category, which would be incorrect. I think less than 1% of people who register domains would be considered typical "domainers" that are trying to make money flipping domains. The amount of domains that drop every day really has nothing to do with it.

Krossat · 04-11-2012, 01:43 AM

unfortunately,
there are people that talk.
and then there are people that sell.

dcristo · 04-11-2012, 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by Krossat

unfortunately,
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=742252
there are people that talk.
and then there are people that sell.

It helps if you have good domains to sell

01-04-2012, 12:30 PM	#28 (permalink)
GF Domain Buyer Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 5,224	The average domainer? They make nothing. In fact, they lose hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars a year buying crappy domains. Those of us who are above-average? Those are the incomes you want to know about. __________________ WTB: High PR Blogrolls and Guest Posts

02-19-2012, 08:01 AM	#40 (permalink)
srisri24 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,254	In the last Five years of my domaining, i have lost over $5000. This is because, i registered ordinary names and kept on renewing them. For some good names, i paid more than reseller prices. During LLLL.com buyout and post buyout, i paid $40-$80 per domain to aquire in the aftermarket. Paid again renewals for 4-5 years. Now its becoming hard to sell at $25 per name. At one time i was paying renewals for over 500 domains, now my portfolio is at 120. I am planning to bring it down to 50-60 in the next 5 to 6 months time. __________________ Tax Report Secret gallery Get Free Back Links Brazil Travel Info

04-11-2012, 01:43 AM	#49 (permalink)
Krossat krossat.com Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 3,792	unfortunately, there are people that talk. and then there are people that sell. __________________ <<< Krossat's Blog >>> <<< CloudNavigate.com \| Image-Gallery.com \| DesignClouds.com \| AAYU.com \| DietChips.com >>>

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01-24-2012, 04:58 AM	#29 (permalink)
carltonleon NamePros Regular Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dublin Posts: 607	Great Thread Guys. Really insightful and thought provoking. I am just coming back into domaining after a long absense and I wasn't massively successful to begin with but I did manage to limit my losses and sell a few domains. What I have decided this time around is that I am not going to buy anything until I research domaining again for a few months to get a feel for it again and then to stick to .coms to begin with and to peruse the expired lists instead of new hand regs. Well that is my plan anyway, we will see.

01-30-2012, 03:12 PM	#30 (permalink)
domainerdon New Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Glendora Posts: 7 Follow @domainerdon	I think that we are dealing with the "brass ring" syndrome here for the average domainer. They play the game and they are willing to take losses because they hope for that "big score" they can retire on. If you do it as a business there needs to be a business plan, a work schedule (don't expect to make it big if you are not willing to put in the time) education and perseverance. Yes, there is money to be made, but it is definately not a get rich scheme.

01-31-2012, 02:07 AM	#31 (permalink)
alien51 NamePros Regular Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sector 7G, Alpha Centauri Posts: 841	A huge part of Domaining, is based on Speculation. There's no business model behind it. That's why a lot of people are actively peddling their domains, blasting inboxes with hundreds of thousands of email spam. A lot of people disregard the statistics. They only see the domain sales posted on websites. But never saw the larger picture that billions of others dropped their domains with no buyer. Speculation works best in a virgin industry. Once the industry is saturated (or buyers have matured), it becomes more difficult to speculate for profit.

01-31-2012, 10:14 PM	#37 (permalink)
MikeRibby NamePros Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 113	Wow! Great thread guys! Lot's of great info! I sold my first domain last year, a hand regd real estate. Com. Sold to end user within 2 days for $50! I was ecstatic! Then my mind started running, "wow, if I do that 19 more times this week, I'm golden"! Well it didn't work that way. Its quite a slow process that doesn't make sense if you are looking at it as $ per hour figure. Its more fun when its a hobby... Good luck man!

02-20-2012, 05:28 PM	#41 (permalink)
tradingdavid NamePros Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 33	I've spent about 1500 last 6 months Got 4 sales totaling approx 3k so I'm happy. It's not a career. I do seo and site development as well so having a nice domain portfolio fits. I'm trying to think of some way to monetize them.

03-12-2012, 03:46 PM	#42 (permalink)
rollsy New Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 6	So many true words in this thread! I consider myself to be a newbie again, after first being a newbie a few years ago (and then letting 90% of domains expire after a year or so keeping only a few personally relevant ones). The reason I got into domain speculation originally: I purchased a couple domain names to start a genuine business, but during the pre-launch stage I was contacted by someone wanting the name. They asked if I was willing to sell the domain. I replied "Sure, $5000 please." We ended settling on $3500. I presumed this was a simple process and would result in untold riches for very little time or money invested. So, I proceeded to register about 150 domain names at about $7 each (without developing - did not have the tech skills). and spent untold hours looking over their meagre parking revenue on a daily basis (earned about $50 p.a.). I managed to sell two other domains, for a total of $90 (as you can see, if I take the first big sale out of the picture, that was not a sustainable business plan). ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=742252 Suffice to say, the lucky results can come along for newbies like me on rare occasions (as happened with my first domain), but don't expect to be able to replicate it! This time around, I plan to concentrate on two or three niches I know a lot about, choose only real words or short "natural phrases", try to develop them a bit, and try to sell a few. First step: find out how to develop the sites well and improve their traffic. Would any of the experienced folk here suggest hosting topical forums as a good way to build traffic?

03-25-2012, 01:18 PM	#43 (permalink)
tony5885t New Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 11	I thing domineer is like every profession-You have to spend time to learn and with a bit of a luck you can make a good $$$$$ -learning is the thing!!

03-25-2012, 02:26 PM	#44 (permalink)
mcdonna New Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 9	I look at domaining as a way to support my own domain acquisition habits. I am a web developer by profession, and on the side I like to build random websites for myself or friends or charities. Over the last 10 years I've sold around 20 domains at prices from $30 to $2000, mostly in the $100-$500 range. That's been enough to pay for registrations for my own sites and donated sites. Make a living from domaining, however? Doable, but it's like taking any hobby to a profession. Lots of work and study, and you don't buy domains just because you like them. You have to attack it purely as a business.

03-25-2012, 07:34 PM	#46 (permalink)
ytodoeso NamePros Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Bogota, Colombia Posts: 38	hello, this is a very interesting thread, I'm kind of a newbie too, as a matter of fact I have never sold a domain name, I'm just starting placing some of my domains for sale on Sedo, but I'm also developing them because during the last 5 or 6 years I have made enough from affiliate programs to renew my domain portfolio and to pay for my hosting (so my wife keeps telling me it's an useless hobby, but at least she can't complain about me throwing money down the toilet or something...) I can't say I've had profits from it, because I invest a lot of time with my sites and they just give enough money to renew the domain names and pay for the hosting every year, but considering that in my country there are just 2 or 3 affiliate programs (and that it's not possible to withdraw money from my Paypal account...), I think I've done pretty well... I'd love to make a living out of this, spending more time at home and having more time to practice my guitar skills a few hours a day (I still suck, after 15 years doing it...), and maybe that's not impossible, but I guess I'll have to learn a lot about the domain market to be able to really profit from this... ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=742252 so I don't have an answer to the initial question, but I can't say that I have lost money, even considering that I've never sold a domain, and that I have let a few names drop during the years...

04-10-2012, 10:24 PM	#47 (permalink)
mazzinni New Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 13	all business loss money any business loss money if you are not ready to loss don't play the game that's why you need to have back up, do you think you will win a game with no game plan that's if you want to do any business if you want to start any business be preparated to loss if you are not don't even try

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