Tuvalu capital suffers from water shortage - Page 2

eyedomainous · 10-07-2011, 11:23 PM

Thanks Ray.

Dot, perhaps your responding to another post, but you can do the auction and sign the petition... or whatever.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/dot-tv/732565-tuvalu-capital-suffers-from-water-shortage.html

Also, VeriSign would "earmark" funds from .TV domain sales for the campaign... which would buy the low flow toilets, do the studies and produce the outreach campaign... which, ideally would include a video they could post to watch.tv.

Bottomline, they never really "pay" the Tuvalu Gov.,... unless they decide to do so.

Originally Posted by the dot stop

I like the auction idea a little better.
Everyone could give what they can afford to give rather than being forced to pay so much...imo

finster · 10-08-2011, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by garptrader

Tuvalu population is about 10500; if .TV ever gains a wider acceptance they are sitting on a gold mine...

that could be true - so long as the new contract terms were favorable. of course .tv could stay right where its at and if the new contract were favorable they could probably do a lot better than they are now.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565

the contract is up soon. i worry about what the new one will look like -ESPECIALLY if no one in the domain investing community has any input! i dont think verisign pays much attention to what we care about one way or the other.

i belive that domainers getting together now to help out could boost our standing in the eyes of tuvaluans. we dont have to, and we shouldnt, stop at just sending a few bucks. the more we get involved in helping them solve some of their serious issues he more willing they may be to listen to us when competition for that contract heats up.

the immenent crisis seems to have been alliviated and so lives are not on the line in this moment, but long-term these people are facing severe times ahead.

equity78 · 10-08-2011, 10:23 PM

The contract is up 12/31/2016 not soon.

Claude created a petition so if people would like to do something they can start with that.

I doubt Tuvalu is paying attention to domainers, bottom line they want more money. So let's not make this spiritual, or political or any other notion. They want money. Verisign most likely will keep the contract imo since they have the experience running the back end of the registry and certainly others out there are no better at promoting an extension.

finster · 10-09-2011, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by equity78

The contract is up 12/31/2016 not soon.

2016 not soon? I suppose that depends on your perspective. If you are holding .tv names for the sole purpose of flipping them for instant riches then every second the clock ticks seems like an eternity.

(BTW- I think I've mentioned a time or 2 that speculating in .tv names will probably not end well, at least not for most. Jim Holleran seems to be the one stand out exception but I dont see anyone else claiming to have made very much if anything from all the money and time they put into buying .tv)

Quote:

I doubt Tuvalu is paying attention to domainers, bottom line they want more money. So let's not make this spiritual, or political or any other notion. They want money.

Everyone wants money, or at least some degree of economic power. That not really saying anything is it?

Not to get terribly sidetracked but money these days is an inherently *political* object. I dont care what country your in, your money has the imprimature of your country on it.

It is also a *spiritual* object. Money is the ONE THING that people every where and of all kinds accept whole heartedly and (almost) without question. Temples to its power (banks/shopping malls/etc) are built and rebuilt everywhere. Its the religion everyone has without ever thinking they have a religion.

Now Back to the main line-

Whatever you want to make it into or not the fact remains that he people of Tuvalu are in a world of trouble. If the avg Tuvaluan doesnt pay any attention to domainers its likely because they dont know any. My whole point of this thread was to introduce the idea that we could and ought to take the initiative to make ourselves know to them and show them that we care.

Quote:

Verisign most likely will keep the contract imo since they have the experience running the back end of the registry and certainly others out there are no better at promoting an extension.

There are others proven capable of running the backend of a registry for a reasonable small sum. There's no way that registry functions ought to cost more than $1/name/year.

Promotion, marketing, sales on the other hand is whole nother kettle of fish and for those that can perform compensation is always due. But speaking of performance what new TLDs has Verisign ever promoted succesfully?

Some in Tuvalau are definitely NOT HAPPY with the curent arrangeent.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565

http://www.rnzi.com/pages/news.php?op=read&id=54541

Quote:

Posted at 22:47 on 05 July, 2010 UTC

Tuvalu’s Finance Minister says the country isn’t getting enough money from the US company which bought the dot-tv internet domain off it.

The government sold its internet domain code in the late 1990s when the internet was in its infancy.

The domain is operated by DotTv, a VeriSign company, which pays Tuvalu about two million US dollars a year for use of the name.

Lotoala Metia feels VeriSign should be paying more for use of the name but says the company is playing hardball.

“We are negotiating but we are tied because of the agreement that was signed before us. We cannot negotiate for an increase until 2016. Counter offers have been made but they are not acceptable to the government of the day. So we have to stick to our guns now. They’re giving us peanuts.”

Can everyone see the writing on the wall? This guy wants Verisign to "pay more" - which means higher .tv prices ultimately resulting in lower sales and less revenue. Naturally, if it goes this route, everyones investments in .tv will be worth even less than they already are.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565

Is this the way we want things to turn out??? What does Metia know about the world of domains? Does he have anyone advising him from the perspective of succesful investors?

It does not have to be this way. Collectively we could do something about it and I reiterate that the perfect way to start might be to simply try and find out how we can help the people there in there time(s) of need. Yes everyone here is about money but does that mean we cant act friendly to these people and try to establish some direct relationships? What if doing so ultimately means MORE MONEY in our pockets?

I commend Claude for taking some initiative to start a petition requesting Verisign pony up $3 per domain to help Tuvalu with its water shortage but I'm talking about something substantially different.

In any case I dont feel much like writing more about it thread as it seems, like almost all NP threads anymore, to more likely devolve into a bunch of mean spirited petty pissing contests than anything resembling constructive dialog.

Anyone who wants to be a positive part of the initiative I'm getting at is more than welcome to drop me a PM.

Cheers!

equity78 · 10-09-2011, 05:33 PM

To answer your question no I don't think 2017 is a short period of time. I believe 5 years in Internet time is a long time.

Many have profitted from selling .tv names so to say Jim Holleran is the only one is just a foolish statement.

Tuvalu is not happy because they want more not that the deal was bad. They want more that's all. Verisign has not screwed Tuvalu. Tuvalu had a big cash payment when the Dot TV corp was purchased as they owned equity.

MicroGuy · 10-09-2011, 05:41 PM

I think Tuvalu could conserve millions of gallons of water if they passed a mandatory "Whiz in the Ocean" law. They could make it a crime to pee in a urinal or toilet punishable by a fine of $25.00. Then use all fines collected to pay for new water systems.

This might sound extreme, but I really think it could work. (

)

equity78 · 10-09-2011, 06:01 PM

Could not rep you again DU but excellent post.

Originally Posted by defaultuser

Using your logic I'm sure glad that I don't have any .GR/.ES/.IE/.PT domains. I'd have to donate a lot of money to show good will bailing them out, too..

Not to mention the number of starving in .IN/.CO.IN and .SO (not that anyone has those).

Perhaps we should all try and save Europe to make sure that our .EU investments are safe...

Determine your own level of interest in supporting the island of .TV - but please don't judge others(me) or we'll have to start calculating how many children we could have saved with the $1M USD you have tied up in "worthless" domain .TV domain names.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565

It's about Individualism.

I'll donate a .TV name if there ever is an auction - probably one of those ones that gets bids in the upper single digits.

finster · 10-09-2011, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by equity78

To answer your question no I don't think 2017 is a short period of time. I believe 5 years in Internet time is a long time.

it can be. i've said it here before that the real possibility exists that in 5-10 years domains themselves might become far less useful objects. i'm certain that at the very least in 15-20 years they will be worth about as much as toll-free numbers are today.

so if 5 years is a long time then how long is it going to take for the .tv to gain the kind of public recognition that everyone here talks about, the kind that would actually make .tv a viable tld to speculate in and make money? i hate to quote old snoopy but he was right when he said that people have been talking up .tv for years but it STILL hasnt amounted to very much. it seems like a couple of years since he was last here saying that - has anything substantially changed?

Originally Posted by equity78

Many have profitted from selling .tv names so to say Jim Holleran is the only one is just a foolish statement.

i didnt exactly say that but whatever. personally i think many, if not most, claims of profit have been exaggerated to one degree or another - often untintentionally/consiously due to disregarding the full extent of costs and losses.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565

however this is definitely a topic for another thread.

Originally Posted by equity78

Tuvalu is not happy because they want more not that the deal was bad. They want more that's all. Verisign has not screwed Tuvalu. Tuvalu had a big cash payment when the Dot TV corp was purchased as they owned equity.

whats wrong with wanting more? the question is can more actually be generated. i say yes because the tld has been mis-managed promotionally AND becasue the basic costs of running the tld are far less than what is accounted for in a 25/yr price tag.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565

something to keep in mind - tuvalu is a sovreign nation and they dont actually have to wait till 2016. it would be drastic and not without consequences to be sure but they could pull the contract any day they feel like it.

the real bottom line is it is in our interest to not only see to it that tuvalu gets the best deal possible without increasing our own costs but also see to it that the tld has the best chance of success possible. perhaps if 1) verisign were cut out as middleman and the basic registry function handed over to affilias or some other competant registry, and 2) the price of domains were lowered to about 8 or 10 dollars then this would not only lower our costs but also greatly increase the number of .tv registrations worldwide and hence increase public use and acceptance - a "virtuous cycle" effect.

you can bet your bottom dollar no one at verisign is proposing this.

whats more likely is some people in the tuvaluan govt are thinking "hey, why dont we just double (or triple) the price after 2016 then we will get a lot more money" or something close enough to that. and whats the most likely outcome if something like that passes?

or is 2017 just too far away to worry about it?

eyedomainous · 10-09-2011, 08:11 PM

They are bathing and going to the bathroom in the ocean now... no fine needed, there is no water for bathrooms, or households for that matter.

Seven emergency water trucks are parked across the islands and people must fetch & carry. A news headline today said some are down to the last buckets and the desalinization plants won't be online until midweek.

Even with the plants, the problem is not solved. Diesel Fuel to run all but the one solar plant -around the clock, will come from where? And paid for by whom? They also must be maintained etc.

If all that gets worked out, most of the water from the plants will be flushed back into the sea anyway... as old toilets consume the most water.

The petition addresses the long term core issues of infrastructure and sustainable use by funding a conservation program.

Of course, Tuvalu could always take the extra $777K a year VeriSign offered if they renew the contract now.

I thought about making that the goal of the petition but decided asking VeriSign to step-up was the better way to go.

Originally Posted by MicroGuy

I think Tuvalu could conserve millions of gallons of water if they passed a mandatory "Whiz in the Ocean" law. They could make it a crime to pee in a urinal or toilet punishable by a fine of $25.00. Then use all fines collected to pay for new water systems.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565

This might sound extreme, but I really think it could work. (

)

equity78 · 10-09-2011, 09:34 PM

Fin nothing is wrong with them wanting more, that is natural. What I said was they got a fair deal. Tuvalu could pull the contract sure, it would be to their detriment. Verisign would be fine, most domainers would move on,they would be screwed.

The other thing Tuvalu needs to think about in wanting more, is in 2017 there will be a lot more competition. By that time at least 200 new extensions, the extensions that don't price properly will get left behind. Tuvalu only need to look to their neighbor Kirabati who has charged like $150 for any name not just premium.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565

Every domainer should have a plan, should own the tv.com for their top .tv names if they make sense. Ready to move and adapt at any time.

I think what Claude has done is the right thing to support. You could mention your plan if you like, are you thinking people here are going to donate substantial money to Tuvalu ? Every registration helps.

My point was not that you don't help them, but that help imo will not affect how they renew their contract. Look Verisign should help them, Verisign actually is larger than the country itself.

finster · 10-10-2011, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by equity78

...What I said was they got a fair deal. Tuvalu could pull the contract sure, it would be to their detriment. Verisign would be fine, most domainers would move on,they would be screwed.

i'm not sure we'd necessarily be screwed. quite possibly yes however it would hinge on what happened immediately after. the issue of concern to domainers is pretty much the same whether we're talking about a contract renewal effective in 2017 or an immediate repudiation: what will be the new prices/terms?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565

i do not belive for a minute that a renewal with verisign will be good for domainers, the extention, or tuvalu. renegotiations are very likely to result in an even worse situation than we've had. my hope is that new terms can be established that benefit us all.

verisign doesnt have to be eliminated but it probably wouldnt hurt. i'm really not sure why you are in their corner on this - it ought to be obvious to someone like yourself that they have performed miserably from the get go. what rational basis is there for a belief that things will ever get better under verisign?

i dont know a lot of things but i am absolutely sure of one thing: if we dont take the initiative in some way to let the right people know how we feel, if we dont do something to gain a voice, then our concerns will remain unheard and action will be taken without our input. theres too much on the line to just let that happen.

unless someone has access to a plane and can airlift the right equipment right now there isnt much we could do that would have an immediate effect. however, now that we are more aware of the situation there we could plan to take some action in the near future.

let me say this once again, the simple act of extending our hand to the people, directly, in their time of need could result in many doors being opened for us down the road. i'm not sure why you disagree but i'm willing to listen to your argument against if you have one.

equity78 · 10-10-2011, 04:33 PM

I think Verisign is a secure company, I know they are lacking on the promotion side, and I have criticized Verisign many a time with their promotion of .tv. I am not a stockholder either. I just never saw them as evil as some domainers do. Of course they got a sweetheart deal with .com and .net but there is not much you or I can do about that. I think Verisign provides stability on the back end.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565

Secondly I am not sure who would do a better job, except for Loria Anne Wardi from .co and ICM seems to be sharp with promotion.

On the doors being open, its not disagreeing but more I just think people will take and then when the contract comes up they will just want to take again and not really care that we extended our hand.

I once worked with non profits and a local chapter of the American Heart Association told me that they were not concerned with $50 donations she was only concerned with corporate sponsorships and I remember thinking, if only all those people who contribute $25 or $50 heard that what would they think ? So I guess that is where some of my pessimism comes from. I think everyone here has helped Tuvalu just by supporting the extension, if they need more help sure. Let's define it, but I would like to hear who you think would be a better complete solution for running the extension ? I am not so much pro Verisign as wondering who would do better ?

defaultuser · 10-10-2011, 07:56 PM

This thread started as a call to action to help the poor inhabitants of the small Pacific Islands. It ended up being a discussion on whether Verisign is the best company to handle the registry... becoming clearer where the priorities lay.

Most domainers don't have that much on the line in .TV - a few domains here and there. Even if people had 500 TV domains that's a total investment of $10,000 even if they hadn't sold any to offset that. If people that have invested $100,000s or $1,000,000 have a concern? Go have an island meet-up, share some daiquiries and discuss amongst yourselves. As far as I can tell, pretty much all the registries are exactly the same - I'm not sure where Afilias is better than Neustar is better than Verisign.

I find it disingenuous that you come to a forum and speak "the end is nigh" of .TV while you are picking up more backorders than just about anyone. You're a smart guy, that's clear, but you're not fooling anyone with your .TV is a disastrous investment routine. It's total BS as far as I'm concerned.

As for Jim? I know he's doing well because while he doesn't post here too much anymore he has spent a great deal of time on blogs telling everyone that he "has the best .TV portfolio in the world" and has been investing since 2000 and in the business since 1997 and owns.... list of names here that usually includes Spain.TV.

As for the Verisign sucks argument?

I've seen exactly the same types of posts in the .US and .MOBI forums. If only Neustar would help.. if only Afilias would do more. They just don't care about marketing the extension!

Here's the reality - they don't care and they don't need to. They don't make one dime of the profit you make when you sell a domain for more than you paid for it. Simple. That said, Watch.TV is far ahead of any .US/.ME thing I know about a and .CO is still in its honeymoon period. They spent $10M on advertising last year - so much for your $1 / name / year.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565

But here's something similar to the challenge we gave in the .US forum.

Rather than come in here and tell us that we need to help .TV and help Tuvalu understand .TV etc. Present a realistic plan of action. If you can come up with a simple 5-10 point plan that people can follow and recognize as being positive.. then maybe you will get something out of it.

Pontificating and saying we should reach out and do something? Means nothing.

Do you have any ideas outside of sending them a scented heart-shaped letter?

finster · 10-10-2011, 09:18 PM

i dont see them as evil. distracted by more important business (to them) than .tv to be sure. incompetent marketers. maybe greedy.

with all the new tld's and cctld's that have come online in 10 years it seems apparent that they are not seen as the go to guys for operating new domains. just have a look at the other tld's they run:

.jobs
.name
.cc
.net
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565
.com

short list, eh? and except for .com are any of these a success?

operating a stable registry is not a brand new gig. nuestar and afilias have been behind major tld's going on 10 years now and i know there are other experienced and competant registry operators out there as well - dont have all there names together but that wouldnt take but a few days to ferret out.

some tld registries are operated behind the scenes by one of these companies as contractors for a seperate marketing driven company that only exists for promoting that tld. yeasr ago i made inquiries along these lines and the prices quoted for operating the registry backend was about a buck. i dont know what it would be now but i imagine its still around a buck. even if its twice that it would seem theres a lot room to reduce prices on .tv and still have plenty left over for the marketing, the registrars, and for tuvalu.

now as far as the efforts of helping out being in vain (contract-wise), well thats a risk i suppose. as long as some real good was done then it would be hard to feel bad about it.

---------- Post added at 09:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 PM ----------

Originally Posted by defaultuser

I find it disingenuous that you come to a forum and speak "the end is nigh" of .TV while you are picking up more backorders than just about anyone. You're a smart guy, that's clear, but you're not fooling anyone with your .TV is a disastrous investment routine. It's total BS as far as I'm concerned.

i dont think i'm picking up more b/o than just about anyone. i'm getting a few to be sure (many are actually legacy names i dropped) and almost all are geos. i have a plan for geos. occasionally i get something else that i think will either bring in traffic or will make a great brand.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565

but what i'm not doing is buying on speculation that resale prices will rise and i'll make green on teh flip. i dont buy for resale. i think that most of those who try this in .tv will either lose money or will at least not make nearly as much as they could if they focused on .com.

as far as the rest i think i've been clear on my feelings toward verisign. i'm not here to whine i'm here to talk about serious issues.

one thing i think has been clearly established - and something that you willfully ignore and thus detract from the dialog- is that the registry functions and the marketing functions are 2 seperable fuctions. i belive the $1/yr figure is spot on when it comes to the cost of back-end functions but if you have better information to share it would be welcome. jumping in and dismissing that figure becasue verisign allegedly spent $10mm on advertising does not cut it.

however if they did actually spend $10 million then i think that given the results it only reinforces what i've been saying- they are incompetant marketers.

seriously, what money needs to be spent promoting a tld? there are some costs attributable to sales/marketing/promo to be sure but a good domain sells itself without very much help. people will want .tv names when they see their competitors, suppliers, customers, friens, associates, etc using them. i think people are also price sensative, unreasonably so in many respects, when it comes to domains and for the longest time are totally turned off to the prospect of paying 50 or 39 or even 24 a year. the premium pricing strategy has backfired and yet they still do not see it. too bad for them, too bad for tuvavlu and too bad for us.

defaultuser · 10-10-2011, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by finster

i dont think i'm picking up more b/o than just about anyone. i'm getting a few to be sure and almost all are geos. i have a plan for geos. occasionally i get something else that i think will either bring in traffic or will make a great brand.

Remove the "more than just about anyone" and leave it at the "I don't understand the end is night approach to .TV while still investing."
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565

I apologize if you are in fact a nice guy with concern for all; however, not knowing you personally I have to assume that the act or words is not entirely selfless. This is my flaw to work on, not yours. From an external view it seems (and I am not alone) that you are throwing a little market scare into one of the few places (NP) where .TV investment is not mocked.

I hope one day to see your plan for GEOs as you've mentioned them frequently. I don't know what you plan to do or how you could possibly do it in the 5 year window that you say exists. I do wish you luck and I hope that you share it with us here as soon as you get something off the ground. You've never shared more than this grandiose plan and failure for other .TV investors.

Anyway, seeing some people that are developing in this space, I think it's clear how hard this is even in hyper-local markets so I am interested in your plan if your plan is in fact more than selling names at a profit.

Originally Posted by finster

you know he's making money because he say he is? interesting.

and he does say he has the best .tv portfolio in the world a lot so it must be true.

I was being sarcastic :-) My point being that just because someone says they are doing great doesn't mean anything more than someone who doesn't say they are doing great.

I can find you people that are have made money, are making money, have lost money, are losing money and everything in between. I can find you investors with names, developers with names, and people with no plan (that's me)

.

What is true? If you gave me $350 and said make money with it in domains - I'm pretty sure I wouldn't start with .TV (like I did) again. Yes, .com is easier, I believe. That said, I'm fairly confident that you could recoup most of your investment with extra if you divested yourself of it in a controlled manner.

Total aside:
I have wondered for some time what you will do with Balti.TV. It's my favorite Fin name to track.

Originally Posted by finster

between all the bs you've managed to actually make a decent point there.

but rather than "me" coming up with "my plan" why dont we all agree not to be a-holes (i'm not saying that any one here is or has been an a-hole) and come up with a plan together.

I'm an a-hole I freely admit it

- I'm certainly not the only one. I'm glad you found one worthy point, though.

I do apologize for coming off rather ass-hattish - some days I am worse than others and today Is one of those days. I don't know why - well I do but it's irrelevant - some days I'm mentally challenged.

Originally Posted by finster

i would say that we might consider forming a non-profit corporation or maybe, if that proves to be too much effort, find an existing 501c3 to act as a sponsor.

do you have any positive ideas or points to present?

A non-profit is not something that can easily be managed by remote parties - there are strict rules, regulations and operating parameters that need to be met and clearly the arguments would begin early on as the people involved would be so differently invested. I don't think you'd ever get a quorum, let alone an approved budget. I'm also not sure what you think the mission would be for a non-profit.

I don't think any of us has the means to compete with Verisign and bid for the contract.

My plan would likely cause as much damage as good short term (and may be your non-profit plan).

That is - create a visible focus group - get the attention of some people/domainers/officials and indicate that the only way for TV contract negotiations to yield top results is for full disclosure of .TV in terms of revenues, registrations, etc. The group could explain the need to get the extension back at GoDaddy along with reorganizing the premium structure and so forth.

In other words - get someone to force transparency of contract, transparency of data and let us have access to dissect the numbers. Tuvalu could do this as they own .TV. They should be easily able to get the information needed.

We could do this lobbying through a dedicated Tuvalu Channel Website!

This is similar to groups that were asking for transparency into the Govt's TARP program. You will find them on sites like Kickstart.com

ONE CAVEAT IS THAT ALL MUST BE FROM A NON-DOMAINER PERSPECTIVE.

It may be that the numbers dictate $50 renewals - you'd have to be able to provide numbers that show you aren't influenced by your holdings. It is this disparity in portfolios that will ultimately make almost all of these ideas a waste of time. My names are worth 1/100,000 of yours.. and so are many... so it all starts with a position of distrust.

Point? This distrust is what we feel for Verisign, Neustar, COINTernet, ICANN etc etc.

Nothing changes. Sadly.

I don't have time or interest to do this unless there is a significant force willing to contribute but it's the only viable approach I see. You, with your knowledge of the $1 a name platform and contacts would be a great candidate to start it up. 1 Vote from me.

I may not post much more on this thread because I don't much like being an asshole - and I like even less having to apologize for it when I feel less like one.

So there you have it.

---------- Post added at 01:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:08 AM ----------

Originally Posted by finster

however if they did actually spend $10 million then i think that given the results it only reinforces what i've been saying- they are incompetant marketers.

That was COINTERNET marketing .CO first year. Sorry that wasn't clear. People say what a great job .CO was doing but it will be short lived as the honeymoon period ends.

What I find amusing:
DOMAINERS hate $22 renewals it's too expensive.
DOMAINERS think a $500 offer on a year old name is lowball.

This is why I think domainers are the wrong people to drive any initiative. We are NOT motivated to drive money, water, food, income to people of an island most can't find on a map. Domainers are like low-class, scumbag registries

---------- Post added at 01:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 AM ----------

Originally Posted by finster

one thing i think has been clearly established - and something that you willfully ignore and thus detract from the dialog- is that the registry functions and the marketing functions are 2 seperable fuctions. i belive the $1/yr figure is spot on when it comes to the cost of back-end functions but if you have better information to share it would be welcome. jumping in and dismissing that figure becasue verisign allegedly spent $10mm on advertising does not cut it.

Neustar showed $5 m additional REVENUE from .CO last year. That's a new contract, new infrastructure build, new API function and over 600,000 names. I don't know what liability, taxation, or resource costs are.. but that's not a lot of room for maneuvering based on corporate numbers I know.

If Neustar has built a highly scalable product then a $1 name / year may be reasonable if you are talking about managed names (i.e. under control at any one time vs new registrations)

I don't think .TV has much more than 1,500,000 names but that's a WAG (Wild Ass Guess). I dont know many operations of size that run of $1,500,000 as hard as that is to believe.

That said - I've seen the salaries of Neustar executives and ICANN members and it's CRAZY how much money they make.

equity78 · 10-10-2011, 11:06 PM

John you have not been an asshat all good points.

.TV has never surpassed 1,000,000 registrations according to Verisign.

Are we forming a lobbying group. We are going to have to go to Tuvalu. A famous story from the first meeting with Tuvalu way back, was that Microsoft was interested and showed up in suits and Tuvalu went with the guys wearing shorts and tropical shirts.

MrRhee · 10-11-2011, 07:34 AM

In 5 years, will we navigate the Web the way we do now? Will the Web as we know it even exist? Will "domaining" still be around? Will domains even matter? Will Tuvalu as-an-island still exist... and if not, will/can the .TV extension still carry on independent from the island?

What I do foresee and look forward to see is this: When the Verisign/Tuvalu contract comes up for re-negotiation/renewal in 2016 or earlier... (and if domains are still relevant)... I am sure there will be other capable companies bidding against Verisign for that contract. Whether or not Verisign wins again, the competition will be healthy and necessary.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565

Regarding helping Tuvalu in their time of need: rallying people together around any charity/movement will always cause friction. People usually end up spending so much time arguing about how to help, instead of actually helping. There's never a solution that makes everyone happy. If you truly want to help, you will find your own way to... and you don't need anyone's blessing, permission or advice.

.

garptrader · 10-11-2011, 07:56 AM

Five years ago my domain portfolio was largely a bunch of newbie regs of which I probably hold few now. In 2008 I was just getting my feet wet with .TV acquisitions and didn't aggressively pursue .TV till 2009. I dipped my toe into developing in 2009 and am still learning. But in 15 months one site grew from ~25 visitors /day to ~250. Decent quality .TV drops could fairly easily be acquired for a backorder until March 2010. And then no more. This year I have even noticed the quality of .TV drops available for a simple backorder (under $75) fall off considerably - perhaps the registrars are retaining the best (ok there are premiums for $1000+). Yes, five years is a long time in the internet space. Yes, individuals will often forge relationships in their industries. But the reason one donates to charity should not be self-serving.

discovernow · 10-11-2011, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by defaultuser

This thread started as a call to action to help the poor inhabitants of the small Pacific Islands. It ended up being a discussion on whether Verisign is the best company to handle the registry... becoming clearer where the priorities lay.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565

Most domainers don't have that much on the line in .TV - a few domains here and there. Even if people had 500 TV domains that's a total investment of $10,000 even if they hadn't sold any to offset that. If people that have invested $100,000s or $1,000,000 have a concern? Go have an island meet-up, share some daiquiries and discuss amongst yourselves. As far as I can tell, pretty much all the registries are exactly the same - I'm not sure where Afilias is better than Neustar is better than Verisign.

I find it disingenuous that you come to a forum and speak "the end is nigh" of .TV while you are picking up more backorders than just about anyone. You're a smart guy, that's clear, but you're not fooling anyone with your .TV is a disastrous investment routine. It's total BS as far as I'm concerned.

As for Jim? I know he's doing well because while he doesn't post here too much anymore he has spent a great deal of time on blogs telling everyone that he "has the best .TV portfolio in the world" and has been investing since 2000 and in the business since 1997 and owns.... list of names here that usually includes Spain.TV.

I don't mean to come across as arrogant and for those who know me, know that I am not. I should of said one of the best .tv portfolio's in the world based on top brokers in the industry who told me that, and that have sold many of my .tv, but were NDA, and I have many .tv under privacy, because I don't want my 5 ex wives know what I am doing (just kidding on 5 ex-wives(lol)

When I first started investing in .tv in 2000, I was called crazy, and I maybe I still am with the amount of money I invested in .tv, but here we are in 2011, and we are all in this together, and sometimes it's good to keep quiet, but sometimes it feels good to tell all those "naysayers" on those blogs/forums to make a statement that not only is .tv doing great, but it's been the best ROI personally for me and many others, since I started buying domains in 1997. Were all in this together, and I want to see success for all.

As for the Verisign sucks argument?

I've seen exactly the same types of posts in the .US and .MOBI forums. If only Neustar would help.. if only Afilias would do more. They just don't care about marketing the extension!

Here's the reality - they don't care and they don't need to. They don't make one dime of the profit you make when you sell a domain for more than you paid for it. Simple. That said, Watch.TV is far ahead of any .US/.ME thing I know about a and .CO is still in its honeymoon period. They spent $10M on advertising last year - so much for your $1 / name / year.

But here's something similar to the challenge we gave in the .US forum.

Rather than come in here and tell us that we need to help .TV and help Tuvalu understand .TV etc. Present a realistic plan of action. If you can come up with a simple 5-10 point plan that people can follow and recognize as being positive.. then maybe you will get something out of it.

Pontificating and saying we should reach out and do something? Means nothing.

Do you have any ideas outside of sending them a scented heart-shaped letter?

I don't mean to come across as arrogant and for those who know me, know that I am not. I should of said one of the best .tv portfolio's in the world based on top brokers in the industry who told me that, and that have sold many of my .tv, but were NDA, and I have many .tv under privacy, because I don't want my 5 ex wives know what I am doing (just kidding on 5 ex-wives(lol)

When I first started investing in .tv in 2000, I was called crazy, and I maybe I still am with the amount of money I invested in .tv, but here we are in 2011, and we are all in this together, and sometimes it's good to keep quiet, but sometimes it feels good to tell all those "naysayers" on those blogs/forums to make a statement that not only is .tv doing great, but it's been the best ROI personally for me and many others, since I started buying domains in 1997. Were all in this together, and I want to see success for all.

---------- Post added at 08:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 AM ----------

Originally Posted by finster

2016 not soon? I suppose that depends on your perspective. If you are holding .tv names for the sole purpose of flipping them for instant riches then every second the clock ticks seems like an eternity.

(BTW- I think I've mentioned a time or 2 that speculating in .tv names will probably not end well, at least not for most. Jim Holleran seems to be the one stand out exception but I dont see anyone else claiming to have made very much if anything from all the money and time they put into buying .tv)

I have gone public that there is money to be made in .tv, and many are making money. I been hearing way to much hype about .co, now .xxx, and personally I think .tv has a way more potential. I feel it's important to share our convictions regarding this, so I been doing that on some blogs.

Everyone wants money, or at least some degree of economic power. That not really saying anything is it?

Not to get terribly sidetracked but money these days is an inherently *political* object. I dont care what country your in, your money has the imprimature of your country on it.

It is also a *spiritual* object. Money is the ONE THING that people every where and of all kinds accept whole heartedly and (almost) without question. Temples to its power (banks/shopping malls/etc) are built and rebuilt everywhere. Its the religion everyone has without ever thinking they have a religion.

Now Back to the main line-

Whatever you want to make it into or not the fact remains that he people of Tuvalu are in a world of trouble. If the avg Tuvaluan doesnt pay any attention to domainers its likely because they dont know any. My whole point of this thread was to introduce the idea that we could and ought to take the initiative to make ourselves know to them and show them that we care.

There are others proven capable of running the backend of a registry for a reasonable small sum. There's no way that registry functions ought to cost more than $1/name/year.

Promotion, marketing, sales on the other hand is whole nother kettle of fish and for those that can perform compensation is always due. But speaking of performance what new TLDs has Verisign ever promoted succesfully?

Some in Tuvalau are definitely NOT HAPPY with the curent arrangeent.

http://www.rnzi.com/pages/news.php?op=read&id=54541

Can everyone see the writing on the wall? This guy wants Verisign to "pay more" - which means higher .tv prices ultimately resulting in lower sales and less revenue. Naturally, if it goes this route, everyones investments in .tv will be worth even less than they already are.

Is this the way we want things to turn out??? What does Metia know about the world of domains? Does he have anyone advising him from the perspective of succesful investors?

It does not have to be this way. Collectively we could do something about it and I reiterate that the perfect way to start might be to simply try and find out how we can help the people there in there time(s) of need. Yes everyone here is about money but does that mean we cant act friendly to these people and try to establish some direct relationships? What if doing so ultimately means MORE MONEY in our pockets?

I commend Claude for taking some initiative to start a petition requesting Verisign pony up $3 per domain to help Tuvalu with its water shortage but I'm talking about something substantially different.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565

In any case I dont feel much like writing more about it thread as it seems, like almost all NP threads anymore, to more likely devolve into a bunch of mean spirited petty pissing contests than anything resembling constructive dialog.

Anyone who wants to be a positive part of the initiative I'm getting at is more than welcome to drop me a PM.

Cheers!

I have gone public that there is money to be made in .tv, and many are making money. I been hearing way to much hype about .co, now .xxx, and personally I think .tv has a way more potential. I feel it's important to share our convictions regarding this, so I been doing that on some blogs.

finster · 10-11-2011, 02:15 PM

defautuser: you do make some many good points, so many that its difficult to respond properly to them and still have some time left in the day. but i'll try.

balti- thats maldova's "second city".

why does that one interest you particularly?

my geo plan isnt really very complex and its possibly grandiose only in the overall scope, which is global. i simply intend to start a number of locally oriented video sites and link them all together by sharing certain content.

now to be sure i'm at least as big an ahole as anyone here and i prove it regularly. i also would never pretend to be without self-interest. i do think its the right thing to help out and also that the helping does need to be seperate and distinct from the "lobbying" for that self-interest.

part of looking out for my self interest in this situation is realizing that, for one thing, all the parties involved are going to have to feel that they are getting a fair shake. i want to see the ext well managed, both operationally and promotionally. no single .tv investor by ourselvs (including michael berkins or telepathy or ledra or joel or mrs jello) has the juice neccesary to put it all together but if we can find a way to pool and channel our interest than i am sure we can be a vital force with a voice that will be heared. this will not be without challenges but what good thing isnt?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565

to do anything right will take considerable time and resources. the chinese say the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. the 2nd best time is right now. it looks like we have 5 years to plan and prepare, but verisign might continue to dangle carrots for early renewal and some near future tuvalu parliment might be too weak to resist and wind up with an as-bad or far-worse setup than whats on right now.

so its 2 distinct and seperate missions. one non-profit, charitably oriented, and one lobbying oriented.

discovernow: didnt mean that you should get called out. i'm sure you've made some good coin in .tv. and you certainly have a collection that is substantial and worth of note.

i too have in fact sold a .tv or 2, a couple for 5 figures and have turned down offers in the 5 figure range. i'm still far in the red after adding up all i've spent on .tv names, dropped ones as well as names i'm still holding. the roi on the sold names is outstanding! but the roi on the whole is a very big negative. i dont blame the ext, i certainly did buy a lot of turkeys no doubt. and i'm sure some have done better than me but i feel certain that for most domainers .tv has also been a net loss.

bottomline:

i do think that .tv names are GREAT! i love 'em! i wouldnt still be holding on if i didnt.

its *possible* to make money in .tv, no doubt. should most domainers try it? i dont know, myself i dont look at it for flips at all but i cant say it cant be done. i do see some would-be players show up here trying to peddle second and third rate names, names that will inevitably be dropped, and i cant help but wonder "wtf were they thinking?" of course that happens in .com and every other tld too.

---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ----------

equity: going to tuvalu could be a lot of fun. plus if we do it for bona fide business purposes then it should be tax deductable.

---------- Post added at 02:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 PM ----------

mrrhee: i'm not very comfortable waiting for some competition to verisign show up on tuvalu's door. it might or might not happen. better to take the initiative.

you're right that no one needs anyone elses permission to do the whatever they feel is the right action. but what i have in mind will take a lot more energy than i have by myself. what i'm hoping to accomplish now is simply to see whos willing to take part.

MrRhee · 10-11-2011, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by finster

mrrhee: i'm not very comfortable waiting for some competition to verisign show up on tuvalu's door. it might or might not happen. better to take the initiative.

Who's waiting? Verisign will face serious competition... perhaps even long before 2016.

nuff said.

good luck to everyone.

10-08-2011, 10:23 PM	#28 (permalink)
equity78 NamePros Expert Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 7,634	The contract is up 12/31/2016 not soon. Claude created a petition so if people would like to do something they can start with that. I doubt Tuvalu is paying attention to domainers, bottom line they want more money. So let's not make this spiritual, or political or any other notion. They want money. Verisign most likely will keep the contract imo since they have the experience running the back end of the registry and certainly others out there are no better at promoting an extension. __________________ Host your website with name.com and get up to $10.99 off any domain registration First Quarter 2012 5 letter.com sales report

10-09-2011, 05:33 PM	#30 (permalink)
equity78 NamePros Expert Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 7,634	To answer your question no I don't think 2017 is a short period of time. I believe 5 years in Internet time is a long time. Many have profitted from selling .tv names so to say Jim Holleran is the only one is just a foolish statement. Tuvalu is not happy because they want more not that the deal was bad. They want more that's all. Verisign has not screwed Tuvalu. Tuvalu had a big cash payment when the Dot TV corp was purchased as they owned equity. __________________ Host your website with name.com and get up to $10.99 off any domain registration First Quarter 2012 5 letter.com sales report Last edited by equity78; 10-09-2011 at 05:43 PM.

10-09-2011, 05:41 PM	#31 (permalink)
MicroGuy Miembro Especial Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Fourth Density Posts: 6,831	I think Tuvalu could conserve millions of gallons of water if they passed a mandatory "Whiz in the Ocean" law. They could make it a crime to pee in a urinal or toilet punishable by a fine of $25.00. Then use all fines collected to pay for new water systems. This might sound extreme, but I really think it could work. () __________________ ...... Astral Projectors Do It In A Vortex!

10-09-2011, 09:34 PM	#35 (permalink)
equity78 NamePros Expert Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 7,634	Fin nothing is wrong with them wanting more, that is natural. What I said was they got a fair deal. Tuvalu could pull the contract sure, it would be to their detriment. Verisign would be fine, most domainers would move on,they would be screwed. The other thing Tuvalu needs to think about in wanting more, is in 2017 there will be a lot more competition. By that time at least 200 new extensions, the extensions that don't price properly will get left behind. Tuvalu only need to look to their neighbor Kirabati who has charged like $150 for any name not just premium. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565 Every domainer should have a plan, should own the tv.com for their top .tv names if they make sense. Ready to move and adapt at any time. I think what Claude has done is the right thing to support. You could mention your plan if you like, are you thinking people here are going to donate substantial money to Tuvalu ? Every registration helps. My point was not that you don't help them, but that help imo will not affect how they renew their contract. Look Verisign should help them, Verisign actually is larger than the country itself. __________________ Host your website with name.com and get up to $10.99 off any domain registration First Quarter 2012 5 letter.com sales report

10-10-2011, 04:33 PM	#37 (permalink)
equity78 NamePros Expert Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 7,634	I think Verisign is a secure company, I know they are lacking on the promotion side, and I have criticized Verisign many a time with their promotion of .tv. I am not a stockholder either. I just never saw them as evil as some domainers do. Of course they got a sweetheart deal with .com and .net but there is not much you or I can do about that. I think Verisign provides stability on the back end. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565 Secondly I am not sure who would do a better job, except for Loria Anne Wardi from .co and ICM seems to be sharp with promotion. On the doors being open, its not disagreeing but more I just think people will take and then when the contract comes up they will just want to take again and not really care that we extended our hand. I once worked with non profits and a local chapter of the American Heart Association told me that they were not concerned with $50 donations she was only concerned with corporate sponsorships and I remember thinking, if only all those people who contribute $25 or $50 heard that what would they think ? So I guess that is where some of my pessimism comes from. I think everyone here has helped Tuvalu just by supporting the extension, if they need more help sure. Let's define it, but I would like to hear who you think would be a better complete solution for running the extension ? I am not so much pro Verisign as wondering who would do better ? __________________ Host your website with name.com and get up to $10.99 off any domain registration First Quarter 2012 5 letter.com sales report

10-10-2011, 07:56 PM	#38 (permalink)
defaultuser Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: internet@ctivist.com Posts: 4,771	This thread started as a call to action to help the poor inhabitants of the small Pacific Islands. It ended up being a discussion on whether Verisign is the best company to handle the registry... becoming clearer where the priorities lay. Most domainers don't have that much on the line in .TV - a few domains here and there. Even if people had 500 TV domains that's a total investment of $10,000 even if they hadn't sold any to offset that. If people that have invested $100,000s or $1,000,000 have a concern? Go have an island meet-up, share some daiquiries and discuss amongst yourselves. As far as I can tell, pretty much all the registries are exactly the same - I'm not sure where Afilias is better than Neustar is better than Verisign. I find it disingenuous that you come to a forum and speak "the end is nigh" of .TV while you are picking up more backorders than just about anyone. You're a smart guy, that's clear, but you're not fooling anyone with your .TV is a disastrous investment routine. It's total BS as far as I'm concerned. As for Jim? I know he's doing well because while he doesn't post here too much anymore he has spent a great deal of time on blogs telling everyone that he "has the best .TV portfolio in the world" and has been investing since 2000 and in the business since 1997 and owns.... list of names here that usually includes Spain.TV. As for the Verisign sucks argument? I've seen exactly the same types of posts in the .US and .MOBI forums. If only Neustar would help.. if only Afilias would do more. They just don't care about marketing the extension! Here's the reality - they don't care and they don't need to. They don't make one dime of the profit you make when you sell a domain for more than you paid for it. Simple. That said, Watch.TV is far ahead of any .US/.ME thing I know about a and .CO is still in its honeymoon period. They spent $10M on advertising last year - so much for your $1 / name / year. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565 But here's something similar to the challenge we gave in the .US forum. Rather than come in here and tell us that we need to help .TV and help Tuvalu understand .TV etc. Present a realistic plan of action. If you can come up with a simple 5-10 point plan that people can follow and recognize as being positive.. then maybe you will get something out of it. Pontificating and saying we should reach out and do something? Means nothing. Do you have any ideas outside of sending them a scented heart-shaped letter? __________________ Anyone Seen Aggro? I can't find her anywhere.

10-10-2011, 11:06 PM	#41 (permalink)
equity78 NamePros Expert Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 7,634	John you have not been an asshat all good points. .TV has never surpassed 1,000,000 registrations according to Verisign. Are we forming a lobbying group. We are going to have to go to Tuvalu. A famous story from the first meeting with Tuvalu way back, was that Microsoft was interested and showed up in suits and Tuvalu went with the guys wearing shorts and tropical shirts. __________________ Host your website with name.com and get up to $10.99 off any domain registration First Quarter 2012 5 letter.com sales report

10-11-2011, 07:34 AM	#42 (permalink)
MrRhee Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Multiverse Posts: 1,207	In 5 years, will we navigate the Web the way we do now? Will the Web as we know it even exist? Will "domaining" still be around? Will domains even matter? Will Tuvalu as-an-island still exist... and if not, will/can the .TV extension still carry on independent from the island? What I do foresee and look forward to see is this: When the Verisign/Tuvalu contract comes up for re-negotiation/renewal in 2016 or earlier... (and if domains are still relevant)... I am sure there will be other capable companies bidding against Verisign for that contract. Whether or not Verisign wins again, the competition will be healthy and necessary. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565 Regarding helping Tuvalu in their time of need: rallying people together around any charity/movement will always cause friction. People usually end up spending so much time arguing about how to help, instead of actually helping. There's never a solution that makes everyone happy. If you truly want to help, you will find your own way to... and you don't need anyone's blessing, permission or advice. .

10-11-2011, 07:56 AM	#43 (permalink)
garptrader NamePros Regular Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 857	Five years ago my domain portfolio was largely a bunch of newbie regs of which I probably hold few now. In 2008 I was just getting my feet wet with .TV acquisitions and didn't aggressively pursue .TV till 2009. I dipped my toe into developing in 2009 and am still learning. But in 15 months one site grew from ~25 visitors /day to ~250. Decent quality .TV drops could fairly easily be acquired for a backorder until March 2010. And then no more. This year I have even noticed the quality of .TV drops available for a simple backorder (under $75) fall off considerably - perhaps the registrars are retaining the best (ok there are premiums for $1000+). Yes, five years is a long time in the internet space. Yes, individuals will often forge relationships in their industries. But the reason one donates to charity should not be self-serving. __________________ http://www.genericdomains.net/ http://www.dominericos.com/ http://www.premiumdomains.tv/

10-11-2011, 02:15 PM	THREAD STARTER #45 (permalink)
finster Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,630	defautuser: you do make some many good points, so many that its difficult to respond properly to them and still have some time left in the day. but i'll try. balti- thats maldova's "second city". why does that one interest you particularly? my geo plan isnt really very complex and its possibly grandiose only in the overall scope, which is global. i simply intend to start a number of locally oriented video sites and link them all together by sharing certain content. now to be sure i'm at least as big an ahole as anyone here and i prove it regularly. i also would never pretend to be without self-interest. i do think its the right thing to help out and also that the helping does need to be seperate and distinct from the "lobbying" for that self-interest. part of looking out for my self interest in this situation is realizing that, for one thing, all the parties involved are going to have to feel that they are getting a fair shake. i want to see the ext well managed, both operationally and promotionally. no single .tv investor by ourselvs (including michael berkins or telepathy or ledra or joel or mrs jello) has the juice neccesary to put it all together but if we can find a way to pool and channel our interest than i am sure we can be a vital force with a voice that will be heared. this will not be without challenges but what good thing isnt? ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565 ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=732565 to do anything right will take considerable time and resources. the chinese say the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. the 2nd best time is right now. it looks like we have 5 years to plan and prepare, but verisign might continue to dangle carrots for early renewal and some near future tuvalu parliment might be too weak to resist and wind up with an as-bad or far-worse setup than whats on right now. so its 2 distinct and seperate missions. one non-profit, charitably oriented, and one lobbying oriented. discovernow: didnt mean that you should get called out. i'm sure you've made some good coin in .tv. and you certainly have a collection that is substantial and worth of note. i too have in fact sold a .tv or 2, a couple for 5 figures and have turned down offers in the 5 figure range. i'm still far in the red after adding up all i've spent on .tv names, dropped ones as well as names i'm still holding. the roi on the sold names is outstanding! but the roi on the whole is a very big negative. i dont blame the ext, i certainly did buy a lot of turkeys no doubt. and i'm sure some have done better than me but i feel certain that for most domainers .tv has also been a net loss. bottomline: i do think that .tv names are GREAT! i love 'em! i wouldnt still be holding on if i didnt. its possible to make money in .tv, no doubt. should most domainers try it? i dont know, myself i dont look at it for flips at all but i cant say it cant be done. i do see some would-be players show up here trying to peddle second and third rate names, names that will inevitably be dropped, and i cant help but wonder "wtf were they thinking?" of course that happens in .com and every other tld too. ---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ---------- equity: going to tuvalu could be a lot of fun. plus if we do it for bona fide business purposes then it should be tax deductable. ---------- Post added at 02:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 PM ---------- mrrhee: i'm not very comfortable waiting for some competition to verisign show up on tuvalu's door. it might or might not happen. better to take the initiative. you're right that no one needs anyone elses permission to do the whatever they feel is the right action. but what i have in mind will take a lot more energy than i have by myself. what i'm hoping to accomplish now is simply to see whos willing to take part. __________________ ...believe me when I say life and death are always on the line...

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