Jaco

Your post precisely displays the mentality that separates winning poker players from losing poker players, winning businessmen from losing businessmen, winning traders from losing traders. I know you're a smart guy, so I just don't understand it, coming from you.

Luck can definitely play a role in anything. Luck is what keeps the losers coming back, however, probability wins out over time and continually taking positions with a negative expectation (ie- selling Pepe.com on BIDO rather than on, say, any other venue) and writing the outcome off to chance is the same flawed mentality that keeps the lights glowing in Las Vegas.

The fact is, the summary resale of this name for a substantial profit wasn't "luck". It was entirely contingent on the fact that it was initially sold in an inefficient marketplace- in this case, a HORRIBLY inefficient marketplace, given the magnitude of that name and the wares that are generally sold on BIDO

BIDO is a venue for domains that aren't in the same quality-universe as Pepe.com, so the buyers who buy names like that just aren't there, no different than people don't go antiquing at Wal Mart. I know that isn't what Sahar envisioned when he started it, but that's definitely what it's become... It would be like going to a country farm auction and trying to sell a Rembrandt. Maybe there are a couple rich farmers there who recognize it's value and fight over it, but at the end of the day, it's sale price in that inefficient venue is what leaves money on the table to 'profit' later on. Very little "luck" involved here, save for the people who were at that auction and lucky enough to have money fall from the sky like that.

This had very little to do with "luck" and everything to do with arbitraging the market differences between a place like BIDO and the value of Pepe.com in an open market, more targeted sale... Again. Writing this off to "luck" is why there are winners and losers. Maybe luck was a distant component, but it certainly wasn't the prevailing theme.

MillersCrossing

please can you state why you believe that to be the case with bido -instead of claiming it as fact. U r repeating what many other domainers have stated - im just curious as to why there is such negative sentiment with BIDO.

I have never bid or placed names on bido - so this is not a loaded question

Jaco

I live in the city of Chicago, which is one of the few remaining places in the US that, for all intents and purposes, has a complete ban on handguns. It can be a very dangerous city in certain areas, so needless to say, good guys and bad guys alike routinely ignore this law in favor of their own most basic, self interests.

Some time back, a homeowner was charged for unlawful possession of an unregistered handgun after shooting an armed burglar who was breaking into his house. During his sentencing, the judge asked him why he felt the need to have a handgun.

Anyway, your question in this context kinda strikes me as being sorta similar to that. You're asking me why I believe the quality of buyers on BIDO is very low in a thread where the entire context of the discussion is basically evidence that affirms that claim.

As far as the quality of names on BIDO, that isn't even a relative question. They're usually garbage, with the occasional outlier. For example, here's the most recent list of names I got from BIDO.

So you basically have about 90% complete trash, 9% that aren't totally awful by 2010 'domainer' standards and a scant handful that are semi-decent. There is nothing on that list that's within 1000 universes of a name like Pepe.com... and for the most part, this is what their lists look like, every time. I really hope you don't need me to articulate what the implications are of this, as far as BIDOs status as a buyers market and what sort of buying clientele these names are apt to attract.

defaultuser

I appreciate that. You took me too literally. The fact is that in a world of buyers and a world of sellers there are those that lose money and those that make money. I understand your feeling that the venue was wrong (and I agree).. Just stating the obvious... rather than the first person got screwed it was actually the last buyer that got screwed... the one in middle made money.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

Your 800 IQ should have figured that out :-)

So which was it? Money on the floor or something that you may have made a play at but not really sure :-)

I actually agree with everything you've said. I miss your previous avatar.

evirtual1

jjj.com was sold and resold for good profit within a year ......it happens

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DomainTalker

No, I don't think my post displays anything remotely as you suggest, Dong.....I've never quite understood why you feel the need to wildly over-interpret, in some of your replies to posts.


My post simply recognises the reality that, even if you place your domain in a so-called good venue, you can still NOT sell at a top price (as per my example).....And, that good fortune can play a part, when the 'right' eyes happen to see it for sale - wherever that sale venue is.


I'm not arguing Bido was the best place to market this name, either (see my first post) - tho, I do allow the possibility that the occasional deep-pockets might wander in to Bido.


And, I'm not arguing that 'luck' is a core element in conducting smart business, or the making of a good sale - only that it can play a part, sometimes.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458


Essentially, we agree, of course.....Ferrari's generally do sell better anywhere, than in a ghetto...

.

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MillersCrossing

Heaven forbid I ask you to articulate........just step back a second. What the hell does handguns and homeowners and judges have to do with a simple enquiry as to why BIDO has got such a bad rep amongst serious domainers.

No need to get sarky. Ive dropped better names than you have ever sold - so stop with the big boy routine...

And i find your "I mock those" signature line to sum yourself up . Maybe get yourself a nose job and you wont be such a miserable person to engage with.....

defaultuser

What does it matter... unless it was Pepe jeans it's going to end up a parked page with ads... They should have WIPO'd it.. lol. But perhaps they did get TM'd afraid which people on NP's are banging on about endlessly.

Viva la stupid keyword internet!

Jose.com must be worth a fortune.

namewaiter

bido is just a platform, if you are going to have a domain listed there, they give you plenty of time to 'invite' in the right buyers -- it should be your responsibilty if you want to sell to an enduser at enduser prices and not the normal resale crowd.

sometimes a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush so selling there may be a vialble alternative

---------- Post added at 10:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 AM ----------

to my point, if you let enough of the right art dealers know about such a sale, they would be lined up outside of said grange

defaultuser

Would you tell them that the auction would start at 2.12 am pacific time and run exactly 2 minutes...

the dot stop

Great Post Millers, Repped.


Hey Dong,
Everyone here knows you are somewhat intelligent because you can write a lot of big words very well.
BUT...
Does that give you the permission to absolutely rip everyone who disagrees with you, to shreds in every other post?
No!

Like I asked you in a previous thread, Are you the self proclaimed "Domaining (small "g") god" ?
Maybe your intelligence causes you to have a superiority complex, and everyone else around you just isn't even worthy of posting in the same thread as you?

You do realize that most of your posts whether trying to be helpful or not, seem to always cut someone down, (Bido, Owner of Pepe, Half of the Domainers on this Forum, etc.).
Your condescending, self serving remarks only make you look like a little 13 yr old Prima Donna Princess, and I am sure people here don't appreciate it one bit.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

Bido has a $28.00 start price.

Sedo has a $60.00 start price.

So, of course Bido is going to have a lot of their domains as half the value of other Auction Venues.
They don't hide that fact.
As a matter of fact Bido has done more for the Domaining Community in the past year, than you will ever attempt to.
Just give it a rest, Jesus Christ!

BTW, Lets see YOUR Superior Portfolio.

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gazzip

Great post there are only so many domainers with deep pockets and with more places selling domains it's harder for them to keep an eye on all of them. Luck and Timing are also important factors....not that many domainers would admit luck is important
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458


.

Jaco

It was an illustration of how hilariously stupid it is to be perplexed as to 'why' when amidst context that displays 'why' with about as much subtlety as a cast iron frying pan over the head.

lol. You a betting man, MillersCrossing?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

---------- Post added at 11:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 AM ----------

Crying, wounded, etc

Why did you even bother posting this?
No one here said "Bido isn't a good place to sell crap domains". The point is that BIDO is an awful place to sell great names. As far as what bido has 'done for the domaining community', it's basically stood itself as an example of how stupid 'domaining' is once you cross beneath a certain threshold of quality. Hope there were no 'big words' to trip you up here. Good luck with future endeavors. I'm sure you have a bright future.

MillersCrossing

you know, having taken a second look at your avatar, I'm not convinced that's a nose, it could be a very well known two word phrase

Jaco

Well, thats OK. You don't have to like me personally and I'll be weeping and writhing in agony over your dislike of me later on. The point here wasn't to get into personal pissing matches as much as it was to outline just how awful a sales venue BIDO appears to be for names like Pepe.com. As far as "why", it seems to answer it's own question.

the dot stop

Hey Dong,

Seriously, Lose the hate.

If you wanted to, you could possibly be an asset to this Community instead of such a Self-Righteous A$$!

Where's your incredible portfolio we've heard so much about from all of your condescending,
"Holier than thou" Posts?

Why all of the hate towards Bido,
Did one of your superior domains not get voted in???

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MillersCrossing

You are pissing on everyone- newbie or otherwise with your signature - in the 4 years I have been on namepros -I HAVE NEVER seen such outright conceit and disdain for people on this forum with the "I am mocking people who register pointless trash domain names."
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

At least you back up your words with the behavior that you display towards others. Go speak to a therapist as to why you are so bitter with your life

MediaHound

Of those 120 auctions, these 20 sold (1 in 6):
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458
horney.mobi $28
mob.mx $60
workoutmachines.net $28
lengua.mx $135
g5u.com $146
websitelayouts.net $28
clinicalspecialist.org $28
visamerchant.net $100
flowersfast.us $28
correctiveeyesurgery.us $28
death.mx $28
hdprinters.com $101
campingtrailers.org $42
usedguitar.org $42
womansshoes.net $28
girlsbicycles.net $28
mystery.cc $28
announces.de $108
explores.de $99
dancingcareers.com $28



Here at Bido, we have something called a "BidoPrice", it's what other auction sites call a "reserve". When sellers list their inventory, they select their BidoPrice. The auctions start at $28 minimum bid. Sellers also have the choice to start the bidding at the level of their BidoPrice. For example, if they do not whatsoever wish for bids for less to be allowed to be placed. Anyway, most of the auctions start at $28. If the auction ends and there were bids (or one bid..) for less than the BidoPrice, sellers have 24 hours to decide to accept the high bid should they wish to.
In the case of pepe.com, the domain was submitted with a $35,000 BidoPrice. It was quickly voted into auction by the community. The auction ran and the highest bid was for $15,000. The seller had a choice, 24 hours to accept the 15K or walk away. Shortly after the auction, the seller decided to sell, logged in, and clicked the link to accept the high bid.
For this reason, the sale only happened because the seller was actually happy with this amount. It was not forced upon the seller to sell for this amount.
Early on, all the auctions we ran on Bido (1 auction per day, at the time) started at $1 and had no reserve. It's important to realize this is not the case with Bido for many months, ever since around the time we started to run multiple auctions per day.

Bido provides liquidity. We designed the platform where we crowdsource the selection process of what goes to auction (see Vote For Profits). The voters vote on the domain, based on how likely it is to sell for it's BidoPrice or more. If you vote on an auction that sells, you earn a percentage of the sale price. The first to vote earns the most, and you can cast between 1-3 votes. This is how we filter the inventory, it's pre-screened and for that reason we have inventory that is "in-demand" and without an excessively unrealistic desired price. Only the domains that are in-demand and priced accordingly make it to auction.

This format also keeps buyers coming back, because they find value in our inventory. It's also why our sales ratio is as attractive as it is.

For these reasons, we provide liquidity to the industry.
Let's face it, selling is hard. Some domain owners are able to hold out until they get an extraordinarily high offer from a buyer. However, on the other hand, finding a buyer when you need one is not always as easy as you would like. Liquidity and "end user" or "top dollar" sale amounts are two different ends of the spectrum. For a seller who needs to sell, Bido can help. We do it every day of the week.
"Selling an item" is an active process, think of it as a verb.
An item that "is for sale" is nearly describing that it is for sale, for the right price - think of it as a descriptive noun.

Bido is for those sellers who are engaged in selling for prices that the community will agree are likely to sell.
The other marketplaces are for sellers who wish to put their items in "make offer" status and sit and wait. And waiting forever is often part of the process.
Bido is faster paced, inventory goes into the system and is churned, think of it as a money sorting machine, with a motor, gears, and a selection process. Everything finds its place, it either falls out of voting, or gets voted in, then it either sells or does not sell. This process starts and stops, with a maximum timeframe that is pre-defined. Your domain is actually in front of voters and buyers, being seen, getting maximum exposure, and all the while you will know what is going on at each step of the way.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

The other aspect that I would like to touch on expands on my previous comment about selling is not always easy. Here at Bido, with our Vote For Profits program, those who vote your domains to auction have an interest for the auction to do well and sell. The reason is because the voters make money based on the sale price. Pepe.com is also an interesting case study that expands on how Bido makes selling easier. The interesting thing is not only did the domain sell for $15,000 when the seller preferred the money instead of the domain, but the sale actually happened because the buyer saw one of the voters mention it on Twitter the day of the auction. Not only are sellers able to market their auction to the world and get the word out, but the voters may market it as well. And we continue to enhance this aspect of Bido. As the community gradually learns to understand what Bido is for, and how we do things, Bido grows. Sellers realize to turn to Bido when in need of liquidity. Buyers find value. Those looking to learn how to better gauge liquid value may do so by voting using the complimentary voting points we give away. And those looking to earn a significant income just for voting may do so as well. Everyone wins.

I hope that when we all think of Bido, we think of Bido as a venue where sales happen and that Bido provides liquidity to sellers (and value to buyers). If you are actively looking to sell, try Bido. If you are just looking for an interface where you can park your domain and negotiate with prospects if they come along, Bido is not a good choice for you, because we don't offer that. Bido is also not a replacement for the other various "list and pray" venues.
And with our BidoPrice format, it's a layer of protection to ensure your item does not sell for what you feel is a drastically low price.
Thanks for the opportunity to discuss. I may be reached at jarred@bido.com.
Best regards,
Jarred

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http://www.bido.com/VoteForProfits
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the dot stop

Jarred,

You guys over there are doing a phenomenal job and I thank you for giving us,
the domaining Community one more valuable resource that we did not have last year.

and your Customer Service is truly second to none!

Also: Congrats on the UDRP.com 16.5k sale also!

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mwzd

Did you see my appraisal?

Or did you miss the word 'minimum' I put after it?

And 'needlessly hosed'?

Even though I don't know who flipped it, isn't what this game is all about?

Buy low, sell high.

If the original seller is happy with his ROI, why was he hosed?

Everyone has different thresholds ( mine is particularly low )

I actually appraised it correctly nine months back. Quite proud of myself too.

Totally agree, we get taken a lot of times by a pure shark

All of us should just stop selling to each other and only look for the fortune 500 end users... and I'm not being facetious here.

But is everyone geared to do it? That's why the top brokers / auction houses / platforms get paid what they do, they deliver sales, which is pretty much the bottomline.

As for Bido not being the right place... with the guarantee program it provides you with a great base valuation,

Obviously those kind of buyers don't even go for tier 2 names and are also unlikely to pay what an end user / company / collector would pay for the tier 1 names you do put up.

And with the voting option and refinements thereof for the other auctions at Bido, the grain is quickly separated from the chaff.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

It's not 100% there... but then nothing else out there is either, at least they're listening and tuning it constantly.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

I'd appreciate the effort someone is making, instead of trying to knock them down.

Not that it matters to them or people who buy and sell there... at least it provides churn in these hard times. Every little bit helps.

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Jaco

Well, apologies to anyone I've angered or upset and I'll cop to being a bit testy at times- yeah, I do have a pretty good portfolio of quality domain names (I am a developer, not a 'domainer', in spite of that) and no, I haven't sold any on BIDO nor had any rejected from BIDO... and sometimes, my mind is completely boggled by the awful names people register and buy (and not just 'a few people' but like, tons and tons of people, including those who see fit to advise others on the name they're buying) and as a result, sure. There can be some condescension there, but it isn't directed at 'everyone' as much as it's directed at the people who are making Bob Parsons needlessly wealthy with absolutely no chance in hell of ever turning a profit.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

Simply pointing out a pertinent fact; if you're selling something unique as high quality domain name (which Pepe.com would be), it's important that the name be marketed in the right place; at minimum, if you aren't going to take the time to market it to relevant end-users, at least make some sort of an effort to sell it in a marketplace where the lions share of participants are people who will still be transacting in domains this time, two years from now.

BIDO, for whatever benefits it offers to the 'domainer community', just doesn't appear to be a place fit for names like Pepe.com, simply because the appeal of a site like that seems to be limited to those who still haven't 'gotten it' on Domain names. Sure, there are some participants there who have 'gotten it', but they're outnumbered 50-1. It's the domain equivalent of a pawn shop, while other venues are more like Sothebys. What we saw with Pepe.com was someone taking a Picasso to a pawn shop and the outcome was just as slanted.

I guess the point I was making is that you don't sell Picassos at Pawn Shops... the thing is, in my opinion, BIDO has the infastrctural capabilities to be something better and even MORE relevant to the domain buying world, but it appears that it was scaled too fast and without much thought to the consequences that would occur when your marketplace represents a race to the bottom in order to generate a ROI 'now now now'. Instead of BIDO being an e-version of Latonas, it's become an e-version of a domain name landfill.

the dot stop

100% accepted
You are a big man for that statement.

Listen Dong,

You have a lot of knowledge to share that could be priceless to a lot of "us".
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

I hope to have some great conversations w/you in the future, and who knows...
maybe a drink or 2 since I'm from Chicagoland area too.

If you haven't tried Bido yet, You really should because I have had a lot of success there recently and I am very grateful.

Later...

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Jaco

As best I can see it, no. There's an old saying about democracy; it only works when the population is informed. The names that are 'voted' onto BIDO are largely voted onto BIDO because most of the people doing the voting don't understand what constitutes a domain name with any sort of inherent value.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

An interesting test (which is unfortunately impossible) would be to track all the names sold on BIDO for a period of time- say, 5 years- then after that period of time, examine how many are in the hands of relevant end users, how many are meaningfully developed, how many are still being swapped around amongst 'domainers' and how many are dropped all together. Given the names I'm seeing on there, I'd wager that 95% or more- after a period of 5 years- would fall into the latter two categories.

Creativity is rad, but there's a place for simplicity and elegance. In my opinion, the emphasis should always be on ease of use and keeping things as simple as possible, rather than incessantly creating a patchwork of procedures, policies and peripheral functions to address every possible eventuality and every complaint raised... as a developer and friend of mine once said- "build up your ideas, then relentlessly strip them down until you've reached the bare bones of adequate functionality. Then, you're ready to go live". I live by that maxim, but different strokes for different folks, I guess.

The entire 'BIDO theory' strikes me as being needlessly complex. Sure, easy to use for those who have been participating all along and not to difficult to understand if you actually take the time to read all the tutorials and FAQ's, but daunting to someone who's just looking for an online facilitator. It's almost more like a domainers trading game than an actual sales platform. It's just annoying because there seems to be real potential there that isn't being realized.

mwzd

Again true to a certain extent, but these very people are potentially also the buyers at that particular venue.

We're on absolutely the same page here.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

In fact I think every developer should read and try to emulate the example set by the extremely successful folks at 37signals: Getting Real

And I also didn't say that they have it right, but who am I to try and impose my take, all we can offer for free is advice.

We do functional analysis and GUI development for clients, but those are paid services.

I'm also going to agree with this to a certain extent.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

But then unless you beta test features in a developing platform, how would you know what works and what doesn't. I'm sure even they know they've just begun the long hard journey.

I think aside from your issue w/ the complexity of the system, you actually have more of an issue with domains that are being submitted.

That is actually something you can't blame on any platform. Specially not one that is trying to expand it's reach to primarily the domain community.

Maybe you'd care to offer a better approach?

Even a manual intervention of domain approval cannot guarantee a 100% sell through rate.

I'm given to understand other people are working on competing systems too, all I can say is it's easier said than done.

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DomainTalker

Now, Dong...


...Your posts (#46 & #48) above....Thats's much more like it...


You still make your points....Your tone is civil....You get more constructive reaction & engagement from members....and....we all get a much better discussion on the issue you raised...


Now, that's intelligent........

.

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