Asked guys working in cell phone store "do you know what .MOBI is?" - Discouraging... - Page 6

*Archangel* · 01-18-2011, 08:45 AM

My post was aimed at the .mobi crowd but if you'd like to believe it was aimed at you, that's cool with me. So I suppose I’ll go in and answer your responses, scandiman. But I want you to know firsthand that I do respect your opinions:

Quote:

Rhetorically speaking this is a false dilemma. Neither represents my full view. I certainly don't consider it dead, nor do I feel it is only useful as a redirect, though if people decide to use it as such that is their prerogative, and often is rooted in pragmatism rather than distrust.

What I said was simply acknowledging that there are 2 schools of thought: those who believe .mobi is dead and others, alive. There is no false dilemma; this is how .mobi is viewed by most ppl. There isn’t much gray -- ppl otherwise believe it’s dead or they don’t.

Quote:

I'm glad to see some common sense being displayed regarding the usability of full sized PC sites on small screens, even when the device is "capable" it is far from convenient.

My usage of ‘cannot’ wasn’t a reflection of impossibility but I can see how it was taken that way. Look it up on m-w.com if you’re bored.

Quote:

So you agree that .mobi is both easier to remember and effectively communicates that it's site content is mobile friendly.

I agree it’s easier than a subdomain. Please do not get your hopes up that I’m praising .mobi.

Quote:

And yet more and more .mobi sites are indeed being developed so this argument doesn't hold up.

.mobi is dead in my view. Period. And whether you like it or not, hundreds of others do (it’s such am unknown extension that I couldn’t say millions or even thousands). BUT that is not to say it can’t be revived. It needs development to go anywhere. IF there are many new .mobi sites popping up, then the claim of death is no longer relevant. For now, .mobi is a vanity thing that ppl use for forwarding. That can be shown with fact but I’ll leave it to you to find them, as I’m pretty sure you’ll look.

Quote:

Using the Disney and ESPN examples, their decision to redirect is about pragmatism, it's how their web IT is structured. Their brand URLs (be it .com or .mobi) redirect to their go.com platform. Their branding intent is clear, and if you want to dispute their experience in branding be my guest. If you think they would publicly brand mobile sites with .mobi while they also actually distrust it somehow then I've got some oceanfront property to sell you in Nevada.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/dot-mobi/636142-asked-guys-working-cell-phone-store.html
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=636142

Or take Bank of America promoting BofA.mobi for their mobile banking (which redirects to their pre-existing bankofamerica.com web IT platform). It's an industry that demands the utmost in consumer trust so it defies logic to say they would distrust .mobi while directing their customers to use it.

There are shill ppl who use 360 domains. Neophilia can last a long time, you know.

Quote:

These overreaching statements clearly demonstrate the lack of balance in your perspective. For you to be correct there would not be one single developed/hosted .mobi website. Here's some more info on Disney found on a .mobi site if you'd like to read it: http://www.reuters.mobi/article/arti...6AA5HY20101112

It was hyperbole. An exaggeration. Do you SERIOUSLY believe I was saying that no one on Go’s green earth would ever use them? Had that been the case, well, be creative.

Quote:

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, I (and the facts) respectfully disagree.

I think you have a bigger reason to be defensive than most others do. You own debt.mobi. One could not realistically say that debt.mobi is worthless. And yes, had I owned it, I wouldn’t just drop it or sell it cheap. Why? Because .mobi STLILL has a chance. It just takes more public awareness of the extension. And when ppl use it primarily as a forward, it doesn’t help.

You disagree with my points and I disagree with yours. You believe your facts are golden and so do I with my own. Let’s just accept the fact that you and I don’t see eye to eye with this and respect one another’s indifferent views. Because really, we could be discussing this for years on end and what would that accomplish? Neither’s opinion would sway. So on that, I (and the facts) respectfully disagree, as well. But I’ll leave the readers of this thread with a thought:

The big dogs use .mobi. Does that help the .mobi cause? To an extent, yes, but apparently not enough. You’ll need REAL users to make an extension work and yeah, .mobi has some BIG players. I and no one could contest that fact. The big dogs use .mobi. But how many ‘little dogs’ do? There really isn’t many to name -- at least NOT IN PROPORTION to the amount of .mobi domains registered. The common person might develop a .net or .org but the common person doesn’t develop .mobi much as all. (There are more .mobi sites out there now, compared to when thi thread was started, which is good and promising) We’ll need a lot of attention given to .mobi to bring awareness to it... that or ppl need to see more .mobi sites out there. The big dogs do their part. Just above, there was an example of Disney showing off their .mobi. But with all the promoting the big dogs had done to their domains, the extension still has yet to do much of anything. That says a lot about the extension. The power of the big dogs doesn’t factor in much with .mobi, I take it. We, the ppl, need to do the rest.

And that ‘rest’ is better utilizing them. .mobi just needs a push and we aren’t pushing it hard enough. Some say it’s dead and others don’t. I suppose that depends on your definition of ‘dead’ and I and a few members who’ve posted here recently have conflicting views. Dead or not, it’s dormant enough yet it still could rise again, like it had after sunrise. In the real world, death is final. But resurrection is perfectly possible in the realm of the internet.

I’m unsubscribing from this thread. I won’t read any further replies.

scandiman · 01-18-2011, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Archangel

My post was aimed at the .mobi crowd but if you'd like to believe it was aimed at you, that's cool with me.

Considering you quoted my post it was a reasonable assumption.

Originally Posted by Archangel

.mobi is dead in my view. Period. And whether you like it or not, hundreds of others do..

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and to be completely honest I've enjoyed the general domainer flight from .mobi, I appreciate the lower prices.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=636142

Originally Posted by Archangel

I think you have a bigger reason to be defensive than most others do. You own debt.mobi. One could not realistically say that debt.mobi is worthless. And yes, had I owned it, I wouldn’t just drop it or sell it cheap. Why? Because .mobi STLILL has a chance.

I've got a lot more than just debt.mobi, it doesn't make me defensive but rather interested in the conversation. I keep close track of the extension, I care about it's progress, I'm critical of the failures and highlight the successes. Everyone has their biases though, that is inescapable.

Originally Posted by Archangel

You disagree with my points and I disagree with yours. You believe your facts are golden and so do I with my own. Let’s just accept the fact that you and I don’t see eye to eye with this and respect one another’s indifferent views. Because really, we could be discussing this for years on end and what would that accomplish? Neither’s opinion would sway.

I actually don't expect to sway the minds of critics, that's a fools errand. What I do care about however is providing balance for those who read only.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=636142

I've enjoyed the civil discussion, It's far improved over days past.

sdsinc · 01-18-2011, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Archangel

The big dogs use .mobi. Does that help the .mobi cause? To an extent, yes, but apparently not enough. You’ll need REAL users to make an extension work and yeah, .mobi has some BIG players.

.tv is used by the big players too but it is a niche extension. .mobi is a niche extension too but it's clearly far behind .tv in terms of recognition.

I'm saying that .mobi is dead because it's an obscure extension for most people and I don't feel that is going to change. It missed the boat. The Internet landscape is now established and it will be much much harder for ANY extension to break through, than in 1995 when the game was more open - .net could have been king.

The big players do a lot of defensive registrations, you will see that many own their domains in .jobs for example. Sometimes they do nothing with them, sometimes they redirect to careers.company.com or similar, because if they own domains for brand protection purposes it makes sense that they attempt to do something with them, even a lame redirect.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=636142
That does not mean they are bought on the extension.

I think their degree of support/confidence in all those extensions depends on how aggressively they promote it. So it's not 'totally' or 'not at all', it could be 'somewhat' or 'maybe'.

To me it's more a question of critical mass. Right now, it just isn't there to make it worthwhile.

carob · 01-18-2011, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Archangel

The big dogs use .mobi. Does that help the .mobi cause? To an extent, yes, but apparently not enough. You’ll need REAL users to make an extension work and yeah, .mobi has some BIG players. I and no one could contest that fact.

There is an often quoted short list of big companies using mobi, probably well under 100 of them. It is an old list from launch time in 2006. Some of them no longer use mobi, including some of the founders like Ericsson.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=636142

Mobi debates end up being about whether you "believe" in mobi or not, a bit like a religion. Facts are in short supply, and no one seems to want to look for them, I wonder why. I don't see any sign of new development on mobi, just a very few sites coming on stream while others die or go to other domains. That could be due to cheap keywords.

Mobi domaining is very dead, look at Sedo's quarterly reports and they give stats on the other TLDs about sales volume, average prices, percentage of Sedo sales volume. .Mobi is not even mentioned in their stats - it is insignificant.

.Me has noticeable sales while having half as many domains registered as .mobi, and .tv sales are significant enough for Sedo to put them in their quarterly report.

So back to the OP's point - there is no reason for someone in a phone shop or anywhere else to have heard of mobi, it is just a little-used extension that sounds like mobile, there is nothing special or interesting about it at all.

---------- Post added at 10:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:18 PM ----------

Originally Posted by sdsinc

Alas I find .mobi ugly and unbrandable, suffice it to say it's nowhere on the map for me and pretty much everybody I know.

I'd have to say nowadays I agree. These domains do as well in search as others and can get first page results, and people click on them, but I find they do not remember them well even after repeat use, and they find them weird and don't readily make the connection to mobile - why should they, .tv domains are not made for viewing on a tv, org domains are not solely made for organs.

With some work maybe you can brand them as mobile only as some try to do, but the de facto expectation now is that mobile is on m.domainname.com.

snoop · 01-18-2011, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by sdsinc

.tv is used by the big players too but it is a niche extension. .mobi is a niche extension too but it's clearly far behind .tv in terms of recognition.

I'm saying that .mobi is dead because it's an obscure extension for most people and I don't feel that is going to change. It missed the boat. The Internet landscape is now established and it will be much much harder for ANY extension to break through, than in 1995 when the game was more open - .net could have been king.

The big players do a lot of defensive registrations, you will see that many own their domains in .jobs for example. Sometimes they do nothing with them, sometimes they redirect to careers.company.com or similar, because if they own domains for brand protection purposes it makes sense that they attempt to do something with them, even a lame redirect.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=636142
That does not mean they are bought on the extension.

I think their degree of support/confidence in all those extensions depends on how aggressively they promote it. So it's not 'totally' or 'not at all', it could be 'somewhat' or 'maybe'.

To me it's more a question of critical mass. Right now, it just isn't there to make it worthwhile.

I think this sums up the situation very well. Personally I think .mobi is an extension that had some potential in 2006 but that upside now passed. I think the situation will be similar to many other alt extensions where an ever diminishing number hang on. Might be 5 years before pretty much everyone agrees that it didn't work out (eg like .ws, .cc or .biz).

carob · 01-19-2011, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by scandiman

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, I (and the facts) respectfully disagree.

Hi I'd really like to know what facts you're referring to? I wish you every success with your projects, and mobi facts are always welcome - there just are not many and they are not easy to find.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=636142

You can use this mobile search engine to look for just results on the mobi domain, and isolate various languages. You get a lot of results if you search for hotel and some other terms, but some you get little.

Which is back to the point there are few stats available, let alone reports about user attitudes to .mobi. So from a domainer point of view a reg fee is better spent on a more solid extension.

scandiman · 01-19-2011, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by carob

Hi I'd really like to know what facts you're referring to?

I was addressing specifics in response to the post I quoted.

Originally Posted by carob

So from a domainer point of view a reg fee is better spent on a more solid extension.

Everyone needs to make their own assessments, but whatever the extension I encourage everyone to pay MUCH more attention to the stuff to the left of the dot. A quick check at snapnames tells me that 118,882 .com's are dropping within 1 day from now. That's about a million bucks flushed down the .com toilet in one day, mostly domainers registering garbage in hopes of getting rich and the cycle keeps churning day after day.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=636142

I had a nickname for many of the "latest reg" posts in this subforum in the early days of .mobi, I called them the LookAtMyLame.mobi posts. So much junk regged that I wouldn't want in any extension.

*Archangel* · 01-19-2011, 01:14 PM

Something intrigued me about this, as I do love discussion, so I wound up resubscribing to the thread. For scandiman and all other pro-mobi ppl: I've never really said that hated it. I simply gave up on it. I owned a .mobi back when they were 'cool.' Back then, just about every .mobi worth owning had been taken. But I owned 1, regardless. I even had a LLL.mobi countdown, after they were all regged and thousands were left to drop. I was a big .mobi advocate. But they've long since dropped out of relevance and although there are 'fact' and opinions, I simply do not see .mobi ever being much of anything. They missed the boat and I honestly doubt a new one will ever show up. But this is just an opinion.

sdsinc · 01-19-2011, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by scandiman

whatever the extension I encourage everyone to pay MUCH more attention to the stuff to the left of the dot.

Essentially you're suggesting that a strong .mobi keyword may be better than a poor .com. That makes sense but even premium .mobi keywords are not selling easily for huge amounts. There is a huge gap between a .mobi domain and what it would fetch if it were .com. A .mobi just isn't as liquid.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=636142
Unless you have very strong keywords you're losing.

The problem with most new extensions is that the premium keywords are not released into the wild, they are auctioned off and sold to the highest bidder.
So I think it's a rigged and silly game, because you have to pay dearly to secure domains that at least have a chance. The trap to avoid is to be carried out by the hype and buy at overvalued levels, which make ultimate resale difficult. Flowers.mobi is a good example.

Of course everybody will have a different idea as to whether it's still worthwhile to play the game.

Originally Posted by scandiman

A quick check at snapnames tells me that 118,882 .com's are dropping within 1 day from now. That's about a million bucks flushed down the .com toilet in one day, mostly domainers registering garbage in hopes of getting rich and the cycle keeps churning day after day.

Indeed but it's all a question a scale. The .com zone is much larger and it's still growing at a brisk pace. It crossed the 90M registrations recently. That growth is certainly not due to speculation only.
In the meantime .mobi is growing modestly, I think relative stagnation is an appropriate term.

Other extensions exhibit the same trends toward relative stagnation, .biz being another example. So the gap between established and contender extensions is widening, as a result the contender extensions are becoming more marginal. Because their growth rates are too low to catch up they're losing the race. It's a self-sustaining process toward decay and oblivion. So I'm speaking broadly, not just about the specific failures of .mobi.
One important question today is, who is still supporting .mobi ? The backers backed out, and even developers are shunning the ext. It's on autopilot now... like .aero

snoop · 01-19-2011, 03:44 PM

Concentrating on the left of the dot isn't what the vast majority of people do, they will get the best name they can after they have chosen the extension, that is why dnjournal's sales reports are littered with what many might call "weak" .com's.

Concentrating on the left is what new tld domainers argue (for obvious reasons-becuase the right is bad for the names they are suggesting people buy) but it is a view that is out of touch with the market in my opinion.

Originally Posted by sdsinc

The problem with most new extensions is that the premium keywords are not released into the wild, they are auctioned off and sold to the highest bidder.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=636142
So I think it's a rigged and silly game, because you have to pay dearly to secure domains that at least have a chance.

Wouldn't call that rigged, people are simply having to pay what the name is worth in an open auction, a sign of a mature market in my view. As opposed to someone buying a name worth $1000 for $30 which makes no sense to anyone expect the guy who gets it for 3% of its value.

Originally Posted by sdsinc

One important question today is, who is still supporting .mobi ? The backers backed out, and even developers are shunning the ext. It's on autopilot now... like .aero

In my view - a few dozen domainers.

scandiman · 01-19-2011, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by sdsinc

It's on autopilot now... like .aero

Oh brother. About the only thing .mobi and .aero have in common is they have 4 characters.

*Archangel* · 01-19-2011, 07:32 PM

Have any of you regged a .aero or ever owned one or ever knew anyone who owned one? We may have differing views but scandiman is dead-on here. How do these 2 extensions compare?

Originally Posted by scandiman

Oh brother. About the only thing .mobi and .aero have in common is they have 4 characters.

sdsinc · 01-20-2011, 03:24 AM

Originally Posted by scandiman

Oh brother. About the only thing .mobi and .aero have in common is they have 4 characters.

Both are extensions that are shunned by their own backers, the industries they are supposed to represent.

carob · 01-21-2011, 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by sdsinc

Indeed but it's all a question a scale. The .com zone is much larger and it's still growing at a brisk pace. It crossed the 90M registrations recently. That growth is certainly not due to speculation only.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=636142
In the meantime .mobi is growing modestly, I think relative stagnation is an appropriate term.

For about two years mobi registrations have held steady about the 1m mark, say half of .biz and a bit more than twice the level of .me. There does not appear to be any growth in registrations, and the level could fall this year. Whether more or less of those domains are developed over time no one seems to know.

So you could call it absolute stagnation and relative decline.

carob · 01-22-2011, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by sdsinc

One important question today is, who is still supporting .mobi ?

Really interesting question. It mystifies me how many mobis get renewed or picked up when there is no market for them.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=636142

I've heard it suggested that there are 200,000 to 400,000 keywords that domainers will grab in any extension, so let's assume an extension finds its own floor level of registrations, including defensive company registrations. So is it at 1m in .mobi? I doubt it, I think somehow buying a mobi lottery ticket is still attractive to many domainers if they convince themselves that the lack of market is temporary due to economic conditions, not lack of mass end-user uptake.

scandiman · 01-22-2011, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by carob

Really interesting question. It mystifies me how many mobis get renewed or picked up when there is no market for them.

Domainer myopia is the phrase that comes to mind, as if resale is the only purpose for a domain registration.

sdsinc · 01-22-2011, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by scandiman

Domainer myopia is the phrase that comes to mind, as if resale is the only purpose for a domain registration.

I see 3 common ways of making money with domain names:

PPC
resale
development

Problem is that two many domainers are coming to #3 because they failed at #1 & #2. There is not even any certainty they will fare any better at #3. At this point .mobi is nothing special, it's just another extension. If you have to 'develop' to make them valuable, any other extension could do. Why not choose a more solid extension. Even if you focused on mobile development I would really think hard about picking the right TLD.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=636142

The big issue with .mobi is that it is not going to stand the test of time well. It's stuck in the past while the boundaries between desktop and mobile have already blurred.
Technology is moving fast and has already made the foundations on which .mobi was built obsolete, to ignore it would be myopia. Yes, I am claiming that .mobi is time-sensitive.

Tell me if you see any similarity between these two statements - plenty of similar claims have been made on NP alone for years:

"Mobile Internet is soaring, momentum is building up for .mobi. .mobi is going to be huge"

"Online video is exploding, .tv is the future"

We have seen time and again that new extensions are not becoming relevant because of technology and technological advances.

scandiman · 01-22-2011, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by sdsinc

Problem is that two many domainers....

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=636142
My point is that it isn't only domainers registering domains.

sdsinc · 01-23-2011, 07:06 AM

I wonder how many .mobi domains would be registered today after subtracting defensive registrations by TM holders and speculative purchases by domainers.

snoop · 01-23-2011, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by sdsinc

I see 3 common ways of making money with domain names:

PPC
resale
development

Problem is that two many domainers are coming to #3 because they failed at #1 & #2. There is not even any certainty they will fare any better at #3. At this point .mobi is nothing special, it's just another extension. If you have to 'develop' to make them valuable, any other extension could do. Why not choose a more solid extension. Even if you focused on mobile development I would really think hard about picking the right TLD.

You've hit the nail on the head with this comment. For most people who choose "development" in the domain community that is the reason, simply put the domains themselves are bad.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=636142

Originally Posted by sdsinc

Tell me if you see any similarity between these two statements - plenty of similar claims have been made on NP alone for years:

"Mobile Internet is soaring, momentum is building up for .mobi. .mobi is going to be huge"

"Online video is exploding, .tv is the future"

We have seen time and again that new extensions are not becoming relevant because of technology and technological advances.

Yep, people mistakenly assuming that an extension will do well because the market that extension is in is growing, but when the extension has minimal market share to start with that growth doesn't mean much.

01-23-2011, 07:06 AM	#144 (permalink)
sdsinc Domains my Dominion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Web 1.0 Posts: 9,944	I wonder how many .mobi domains would be registered today after subtracting defensive registrations by TM holders and speculative purchases by domainers. __________________ NameNewsletter.com - free lists of available domain names ZoneFiles.net (beta) - ccTLD and gTLD droplists Last edited by sdsinc; 01-23-2011 at 07:10 AM. Reason: picture

01-19-2011, 01:14 PM	#133 (permalink)
Archangel www.randypendleton.com Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Southern Ohio, USA Posts: 7,295	Something intrigued me about this, as I do love discussion, so I wound up resubscribing to the thread. For scandiman and all other pro-mobi ppl: I've never really said that hated it. I simply gave up on it. I owned a .mobi back when they were 'cool.' Back then, just about every .mobi worth owning had been taken. But I owned 1, regardless. I even had a LLL.mobi countdown, after they were all regged and thousands were left to drop. I was a big .mobi advocate. But they've long since dropped out of relevance and although there are 'fact' and opinions, I simply do not see .mobi ever being much of anything. They missed the boat and I honestly doubt a new one will ever show up. But this is just an opinion.

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