12,000 auctions our results

**RicoShay** · 11-08-2009, 06:48 AM

Couldn't have put it better.

It does raise some serious questions for the company as a whole. I am currently building a project with a auction system and through development I can see so many places that would trigger alerts if such a thing happened.

The alerts (red flags) would be raised at various levels, so as you said, hiding them would be near impossible. Keeping them quiet and from public eye, is another matter. But at some point, with so many occurrences, its unbelievable to think that this was not known by other people from the inside.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/621078-halvarez-at-snapnames-auctions-uncovered.html

By the way, any news on the other suspected account? I think it was JMJ that mentioned something about "siner"... any one else come across this?

Originally Posted by DomainTalker

Sometimes in life we get to see the sordid underbelly of a corrupt business.

The full extent of the corruption in the Oversee/Snapnames business has yet to be exposed - but observed experience of organisations that have gone astray says that the place was rotten to the core.

What we have here is organised, systemic, fraud - emanating from the inner heart of the very systems that drove the Snapnames business model.

No ONE employee, acting alone - no matter how senior, no matter how embedded, no matter how integral to the design & maintenance of the tech operations - could have sustained and concealed a fraud involving thousands of separate auctions & transactions - and millions of dollars - over many years - without discovery, if the organisation, as a whole, was in any way committed to the concept of integrity.

...Rigorous system checks, dual & triple level verification procedures, random process audits, sensitive antennae tuned into market & customer feedback etc etc, would have combined to expose this kind of dishonest dealing within days of an attempt being made.

That didn't happen. For years. These were smart people. With top-class resources available to them. This organisation was apparently deaf and blind. This organisation willfully and arrogantly ignored any and all the signs and sounds of suspicious behaviour. This organisation apparently missed every red flag in the game....

There's only one explanation.

These people at Snapnames were running a scam - from top to bottom.

.

maxeaus · 11-08-2009, 07:14 AM

I think that the plaintiffs should hire domain talker for the opening address to the court!

Nicely put, if i was the defence i would be shaking in my boots after that.

Smith · 11-08-2009, 07:27 AM

I think what is not being realized here is that the person who basically built the entire system, and the person who would have been in charge of all checks etc is the one who is accused of the fraudulent bidding.

It's very easy to sit here retrospectively picking apart what could have been done, but when a key person like Nelson who had the trust of the company and clients is the one who abuses that trust, there is little that can be done. If this is something you don't understand, you simply haven't been in business long enough to know how things work in the real world.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=621078

At the end of the day this will be sorted out, not everyone will be happy with the results I'm sure, but life & business will go forward. This is a young industry and issues like this will continue to happen and will continue to be exposed as it grows and starts to self regulate. What has to happen now though, is that people have to settle down, grow up, learn from this, and ultimately get back to business.

The fact that there are veiled threats of violence in this thread, and that the mods are allowing some of thing things that have been posted in this thread to remain is very hypocritical and dangerous. A few blogs have received posts containing death threats against Nelson's kids even. The community reaction to this is getting out of hand, fanned by a few key loose cannons, don't contribute to the hysteria, you won't like where it ends.

**RicoShay** · 11-08-2009, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Smith

The fact that there are veiled threats of violence in this thread, and that the mods are allowing some of thing things that have been posted in this thread to remain is very hypocritical and dangerous. A few blogs have received posts containing death threats against Nelson's kids even. The community reaction to this is getting out of hand, fanned by a few key loose cannons, don't contribute to the hysteria, you won't like where it ends.

I haven't read the entire thread and haven't noticed any threats as such (maybe a few prison jokes) but if that's the case, especially with the violence/hate toward his family that that really is disgusting.

dumbluck · 11-08-2009, 08:56 AM

Snapnames was an organized fraud.

Nelson told me on the weekend he was being acquired by Oversee that there were many unpaid accounts at Snapnames. Now, I know what it means. These were fake accounts Nelson and the partner registrars setup to bid on credit. He let them through into the system. The only way to fight organized crime is to organize ourselves.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=621078

File a complaint with the FTC. If enough complaints are filed, they will hunt down Snapnames and take out the entire operation. It took me just 5 minutes to file my complaint

.

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.go...d.aspx?Lang=en

HeyGeek · 11-08-2009, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by stewystarr

I have not been directly affected by this but I am angry just like all of you. So I did some digging (like to think of my self as an ametuer investigator, very ametuer) and I found this Hallelujah Acres, Inc. v. Domainqueue c/o Domain Admin So if Neil and Domainqueue are one in the same it seems that this is proof of at least more cyber squatting. Interestingly the case refrenced does not refer to Domainqueue or whoever owns it by name only as a company.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=621078

Its a long read but might be worth it.

I remember when this domain dropped, I wondered how long the new owner would be able to hold onto it as H Acres is pretty well know in some "health" circles, now I know!

Domo Sapiens · 11-08-2009, 09:17 AM

When people e start refering to this case as Oversee's...
Their view will change (not matter how much they want to dissasociate/distance themselves)

Front page:
Headquartered in Los Angeles, the company's core brands include DomainSponsor®, SnapNames®, Moniker®, and LowFares.comTM.

worldwide · 11-08-2009, 09:35 AM

We have published some initial results from the 12,000 domain auction we were involved in at SnapNames

12,000 Auctions: The Halvarez Effect On Our Account (So Far) | The Domains

cdboard · 11-08-2009, 10:21 AM

seems like anyone who has bid on 50,000 auctions would get the attention of management.

dumbluck · 11-08-2009, 10:32 AM

Theree are major TLD losses at Moniker 2 weeks ago. Moniker is owned by Oversee.net

It looks like a big domainer was tipped off to the fraud earlier than everyone else, and moved out all the domains.

Could it be Rick Latona? Did he transfer all his domains out? Check the gain/loss report ...

ICANN Accredited Registrars**MONIKER

deb · 11-08-2009, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by dumbluck

Theree are major TLD losses at Moniker 2 weeks ago. Moniker is owned by Oversee.net

It looks like a big domainer was tipped off to the fraud earlier than everyone else, and moved out all the domains.

Could it be Rick Latona? Did he transfer all his domains out? Check the gain/loss report ...

ICANN Accredited Registrars**MONIKER

Should we be worried? I have heaps of names with moniker/answerable....Anything to be worried about?

gazzip · 11-08-2009, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by gemstar

Yep those names were on my auction

It would'nt surprise you if you knew who they were, most of them are big

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=621078
eg: Saggydimes = BuyDomains.com

I like to check who is kicking my ass

.

---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 AM ----------

Originally Posted by DomainTalker

There's only one explanation.

These people at Snapnames were running a scam - from top to bottom.

.

I can understand why you would say that now but I really hope you're wrong

.

telking · 11-08-2009, 12:09 PM

hey guys I was browsing through my old emails and found halvarez 'nelson brady'
emailed me last year telling me to change my bid alias. Thought that was kind of weird

canbrit · 11-08-2009, 12:19 PM

What I'm seeing in my Snapnames Order History are several auctions in which Halvarez was one of the original bidders. Halvarez then bids a couple more times driving the auction price up, then drops out leaving the other two bidders (me and someone else) to finish it off with an additional bid each. Halvarez now ends in third place.

In this scenario Halvarez absolutely affected the final auction price, but did not end in second place so there's no compensation. Snapnames profit from this type of price pumping must have been enormous, and of course these types of auction results are being excluded from the settlement.

telking · 11-08-2009, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by canbrit

What I'm seeing in my Snapnames Order History are several auctions in which Halvarez was one of the original bidders. Halvarez then bids a couple more times driving the auction price up, then drops out leaving the other two bidders (me and someone else) to finish it off with an additional bid each. Halvarez now ends in third place.

In this scenario Halvarez absolutely affected the final auction price, but did not end in second place so there's no compensation. Snapnames profit from this type of price pumping must have been enormous, and of course these types of auction results are being excluded from the settlement.

I agree. And what about those auctions where you would have gotten the backorder, but since HALVAREZ entered in, it caused more eyes to see the name as there were now 2 bidders, so you end up losing the name in a high auction.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=621078

Snapnames is screwed

**RicoShay** · 11-08-2009, 01:50 PM

When they say he affected 50,000 auctions - does that mean this is the total number of auctions he took part in?

Or is this only the number of auctions where he came 2nd?

Does it take into account every auction where he added a pre-order (ie. becoming a 2nd bidder, but not placing further bids)?

If by 50,000 they mean directly affected (ie. 2nd highest bidder), then this number is likely to be a lot bigger for the total number of auctions where to took part regardless of where in the bidding order he ended up.

In this case, what would be outcome? It would surely change the perspective on a few things imo.

shane mac · 11-08-2009, 03:01 PM

Just think about this for a moment.

50,000 auctions over 5 years .... 10,000 a year

Or roughly 26 a day!, thats a conservative estimate.

How can this amount of bidding go unchecked?

deb · 11-08-2009, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by dumbluck

Theree are major TLD losses at Moniker 2 weeks ago. Moniker is owned by Oversee.net
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=621078

It looks like a big domainer was tipped off to the fraud earlier than everyone else, and moved out all the domains.

Could it be Rick Latona? Did he transfer all his domains out? Check the gain/loss report ...

ICANN Accredited Registrars**MONIKER

dumbluck have you spoken to Nelson lately and does he intend to tell his side of the story?

Nelson Brady is a free man and hasnt been charged with anything and is free to comment.

We cant really settle with snapnames until we know the Depth of the problem...

Cronus · 11-08-2009, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by worldwide

We have published some initial results from the 12,000 domain auction we were involved in at SnapNames

12,000 Auctions: The Halvarez Effect On Our Account (So Far) | The Domains

Good post, Worldwide! You wrote that you "are now in the process of scrapping all the data from each auction and putting it into a database so we can see how Halvarez affected all our auctions." Can you (or anyone else here) share the software you've written (or process you used) for this, so we don't all have to reimplement the same thing?

I'd like to see Snapnames give us the data in a reasonable bulk format. I'm sure they didn't make Rust consulting click on each auction one by one, so we shouldn't have to either. Still, it is great that they listened at at least reinstated the data online.

shane mac · 11-08-2009, 03:21 PM

Dont be surprised when this gets made into a movie, its got all the hallmarks of a great blockbuster!

dag · 11-08-2009, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by telking

I agree. And what about those auctions where you would have gotten the backorder, but since HALVAREZ entered in, it caused more eyes to see the name as there were now 2 bidders, so you end up losing the name in a high auction.

Snapnames is screwed

Once a backordered name goes to auction, it's a private auction -- new bidders can't enter at that point.

worldwide · 11-08-2009, 04:20 PM

The software was custom written today and is running.

Lets see if it works first and returns the results properly and then we will see what we can do to make it available to others.

labrocca · 11-08-2009, 06:13 PM

I see that Schwartz agrees with me that Snapnames will go out of business. This is why accepting their offer especially people under the $x,xxx mark might be a good idea. By the time lawyers get their cut the pickings might be slim. If they offer you $500 imho take it. If your damages are in the $xx,xxx then it might be in your best interests to join a class action.

Either way I think SnapNames is done.

garptrader · 11-08-2009, 06:42 PM

Given that more than 99% of drops are junk, how much time do domainers spend going through drop lists to find one domain worth placing a backorder on. How do you feel when you place a backorder at the last minute and then find that there are other bidders? And yet HAlvarez had the filter of only having to review the names with backorders which domainers had already identified as worthy of acquisition.

DomainTalker · 11-08-2009, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Smith

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=621078
It's very easy to sit here retrospectively picking apart what could have been done, but when a key person like Nelson who had the trust of the company and clients is the one who abuses that trust, there is little that can be done.

If this is something you don't understand, you simply haven't been in business long enough to know how things work in the real world.

That statement is simply nonsense, Smith...

I have been the CEO of a MultiNational corporation....And, I have owned, and run, a successful business that advised large corporates on strategy.

...And, I'm here to tell you that a properly run organisation should NEVER allow ONE person - no matter how senior, no matter how trusted - to have sole knowledge of vital operating systems, the design of them, and the operation of them - without effective oversight procedures to ensure against precisely the risk of misuse that we're seeing from Snapnames. NEVER.

Online auction systems - by their nature - are, perhaps, uniquely susceptible to the possibility of system-rigging. Any online auction system has red flag processes all over the place, if wrong-doing is afoot.....Its not rocket science....You DON'T allow the guy that designs the auction system to be the ONLY person that understands the system - and, at the same time, controls the system...!!

...Any half-decent top management group should make it their business to have in place independent audit processes - a separate group that understands, and monitors, the system, and, ensures that there are checks, balances, and double-checks, happening all the time - at every operational level - so that fraud cannot happen....Your organisation - its reputation - and, its very survival - depends upon it.....As Snapnames, and its management, are shortly about to find out.

They knew this. They didn't do it. And, the fact this didn't happen says to me that this fraud was systemic, and known, inside that organisation, from the top down.

It looks like a deliberate, management-wide, scam - not saying it was - but, if it was, then, mostly, to inflate the total value of Snapnames for resale, imo.

.

11-08-2009, 07:14 AM	#527 (permalink)
maxeaus Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 1,815	I think that the plaintiffs should hire domain talker for the opening address to the court! Nicely put, if i was the defence i would be shaking in my boots after that. __________________ Drez Media

11-08-2009, 07:27 AM	#528 (permalink)
Smith NamePros Regular Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 611	I think what is not being realized here is that the person who basically built the entire system, and the person who would have been in charge of all checks etc is the one who is accused of the fraudulent bidding. It's very easy to sit here retrospectively picking apart what could have been done, but when a key person like Nelson who had the trust of the company and clients is the one who abuses that trust, there is little that can be done. If this is something you don't understand, you simply haven't been in business long enough to know how things work in the real world. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=621078 At the end of the day this will be sorted out, not everyone will be happy with the results I'm sure, but life & business will go forward. This is a young industry and issues like this will continue to happen and will continue to be exposed as it grows and starts to self regulate. What has to happen now though, is that people have to settle down, grow up, learn from this, and ultimately get back to business. The fact that there are veiled threats of violence in this thread, and that the mods are allowing some of thing things that have been posted in this thread to remain is very hypocritical and dangerous. A few blogs have received posts containing death threats against Nelson's kids even. The community reaction to this is getting out of hand, fanned by a few key loose cannons, don't contribute to the hysteria, you won't like where it ends. Last edited by Smith; 11-08-2009 at 10:11 AM. Reason: grammar

11-08-2009, 08:56 AM	#530 (permalink)
dumbluck New Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 15	Snapnames was an organized fraud. Nelson told me on the weekend he was being acquired by Oversee that there were many unpaid accounts at Snapnames. Now, I know what it means. These were fake accounts Nelson and the partner registrars setup to bid on credit. He let them through into the system. The only way to fight organized crime is to organize ourselves. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=621078 File a complaint with the FTC. If enough complaints are filed, they will hunt down Snapnames and take out the entire operation. It took me just 5 minutes to file my complaint. https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.go...d.aspx?Lang=en

11-08-2009, 09:35 AM	#533 (permalink)
worldwide New Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 20	12,000 auctions our results We have published some initial results from the 12,000 domain auction we were involved in at SnapNames 12,000 Auctions: The Halvarez Effect On Our Account (So Far) \| The Domains __________________ Michael Berkens http://www.mostwanteddomains.com http://www.thedomains.com

11-08-2009, 10:32 AM	#535 (permalink)
dumbluck New Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 15	Major losses Theree are major TLD losses at Moniker 2 weeks ago. Moniker is owned by Oversee.net It looks like a big domainer was tipped off to the fraud earlier than everyone else, and moved out all the domains. Could it be Rick Latona? Did he transfer all his domains out? Check the gain/loss report ... ICANN Accredited Registrars*MONIKER Last edited by dumbluck; 11-08-2009 at 11:06 AM.*

11-08-2009, 09:17 AM	#532 (permalink)
Domo Sapiens NamePros Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 119	When people e start refering to this case as Oversee's... Their view will change (not matter how much they want to dissasociate/distance themselves) Front page: Headquartered in Los Angeles, the company's core brands include DomainSponsor®, SnapNames®, Moniker®, and LowFares.comTM.

11-08-2009, 10:21 AM	#534 (permalink)
cdboard NamePros Regular Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 633	seems like anyone who has bid on 50,000 auctions would get the attention of management.

11-08-2009, 12:09 PM	#538 (permalink)
telking Account Suspended Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 278	hey guys I was browsing through my old emails and found halvarez 'nelson brady' emailed me last year telling me to change my bid alias. Thought that was kind of weird

11-08-2009, 12:19 PM	#539 (permalink)
canbrit NamePros Regular Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The Great White North, Canada Posts: 318	What I'm seeing in my Snapnames Order History are several auctions in which Halvarez was one of the original bidders. Halvarez then bids a couple more times driving the auction price up, then drops out leaving the other two bidders (me and someone else) to finish it off with an additional bid each. Halvarez now ends in third place. In this scenario Halvarez absolutely affected the final auction price, but did not end in second place so there's no compensation. Snapnames profit from this type of price pumping must have been enormous, and of course these types of auction results are being excluded from the settlement.

11-08-2009, 01:50 PM	#541 (permalink)
RicoShay www.demonised.com Join Date: May 2007 Location: London (UK) Posts: 2,956	When they say he affected 50,000 auctions - does that mean this is the total number of auctions he took part in? Or is this only the number of auctions where he came 2nd? Does it take into account every auction where he added a pre-order (ie. becoming a 2nd bidder, but not placing further bids)? If by 50,000 they mean directly affected (ie. 2nd highest bidder), then this number is likely to be a lot bigger for the total number of auctions where to took part regardless of where in the bidding order he ended up. In this case, what would be outcome? It would surely change the perspective on a few things imo. __________________ eBay FOR SALE @ NamePros: TDJ.in + RLI.in + EDE.in + ATJ.in + more \| NEW YEARS SALE - Upto 40% OFF!

11-08-2009, 03:01 PM	#542 (permalink)
shane mac Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Uk Posts: 1,028	Just think about this for a moment. 50,000 auctions over 5 years .... 10,000 a year Or roughly 26 a day!, thats a conservative estimate. How can this amount of bidding go unchecked? __________________ 3DPlasmatv.com/net

11-08-2009, 03:21 PM	#545 (permalink)
shane mac Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Uk Posts: 1,028	Dont be surprised when this gets made into a movie, its got all the hallmarks of a great blockbuster! __________________ 3DPlasmatv.com/net

11-08-2009, 04:20 PM	#547 (permalink)
worldwide New Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 20	The software was custom written today and is running. Lets see if it works first and returns the results properly and then we will see what we can do to make it available to others. __________________ Michael Berkens http://www.mostwanteddomains.com http://www.thedomains.com

11-08-2009, 06:13 PM	#548 (permalink)
labrocca NamePros Expert Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 6,277 Follow @supportforums	I see that Schwartz agrees with me that Snapnames will go out of business. This is why accepting their offer especially people under the $x,xxx mark might be a good idea. By the time lawyers get their cut the pickings might be slim. If they offer you $500 imho take it. If your damages are in the $xx,xxx then it might be in your best interests to join a class action. Either way I think SnapNames is done. __________________ :$: Support Forum <-- My latest endeavor.:loveyou: Debate Forums Free Online Sudoku My vBum Blog

11-08-2009, 06:42 PM	#549 (permalink)
garptrader NamePros Regular Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 855	Given that more than 99% of drops are junk, how much time do domainers spend going through drop lists to find one domain worth placing a backorder on. How do you feel when you place a backorder at the last minute and then find that there are other bidders? And yet HAlvarez had the filter of only having to review the names with backorders which domainers had already identified as worthy of acquisition. __________________ http://www.genericdomains.net/ http://www.dominericos.com/ http://www.premiumdomains.tv/

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12,000 auctions our results

Major losses