.mobi dead or .mobi on NP dead ? - Page 8

HeyNow · 06-27-2009, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by -REECE-

Had to modify your post a bit -- you're welcome to debate but please keep the thread clean of curse words.

I didn't know "ARSEHOLE" was a curse word, sorry.

labrocca · 06-28-2009, 01:45 PM

NV.mobi..awesome site. Probably the only mobi site I would use on a regular basis and even tell others about. That's great.

So many mobi fans want mobi to be successful. Even if mobi does become a household term and used widely by the cell providers by incorporating the magic button. There will still be imho a low valuation for mobi domains. As we continue to see Mobi names get developed and advertised even by well-known national companies I still do not see mobi becoming a success for domainers.

Sales of CNO which are touted weekly on DNJournal show that the resale values of Mobi are nearly non-existant. Even info regularly outperforms mobi. Why the mobi fans can't see that I will never know?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/dot-mobi/590359-mobi-dead-or-mobi-np-dead.html

This is a domainers forum. This isn't a developers forum. Which if you do travel to one of the many developer communities mobi is a pariah. For domainers mobi had it's moment and then it fizzled.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

A comparison if you will. Just 5 years ago housing speculators were buying dozens of properties and quick-flipping them for tremendous profit. The hype and unrealistic belief that housing prices couldn't fall created a bubble. Once that bubble burst the investors lost everything. There is still a housing market and houses do have value but from a speculators standpoint it's dead.

We are domainers here. It's not unreasonable to believe that mobi can have some success but at what level and who is going to be successful? There is lots of talk from both camps about development but the truth is that we here are for the most part domainers. Some are pure play that never do anything beyond parking. How does this equate into success for the average domainer?

A questions was raised a few pages back about how I would view a successful mobi domainer. I would view them with great respect for being able to tredge through a tough market such as mobi. Then I would wonder how much success they would have incorporating that same effort into CNO and wonder why they bother with such a tough extension. It's like being the best jockey on a racetrack with the worst horse. Buy a better horse.

On the YTD (DNJ) charts dotinfo has 7 names listed. Mobi has NONE. This isn't a failure of mobi. It's a failure for mobi domain investors. The two need to be seperated imho.

Mobi attempted to hit a niche market by attaching itself to the growing mobile use of the internet. This is a good thing imho. The mission of mobi is a great one. I believe mTLD has made a ton of mistakes though. Mobi domainers are the ones who are paying the price for those mistakes.

Mobi is a niche. When you hit a niche market you have to play it very carefully and it's normally a minimal amount of players that do well. I have seen some mobi portfolios and they are complete crap. I can go back 2 years and dig up threads of people boasting of 500 mobi names which are now available to register again. The dropping of the LLL.mobi's was very significant but not to mobi...to mobi INVESTORS. This effected the domainers not anyone else. mTLD doesn't really care. Those with development plans don't care. Those with mobi sites don't care. Mobi investors and domainers should certainly care. Yes I know that LLL's sold out again (positive news imho).

If you are indeed a mobi investor please consider your position in the "ecosystem". You're a fringe player that mobi doesn't need. Unless 5 million mobi names are registered to stifle the market and create a higher valuation mobi resales will continue to be low.

I ask that anyone with an open mind really view their mobi portfolio from an end-user point of view and figure out what the mobi is worth and how likely it is to even sell. Mobi domainers do not have the same revenue streams or activity of CNO. They are facing a very uphill battle.

All the major domainers I know of have dropped mobi completely that's even if they invested to begin with. Some of the top mobi fans early on have now completely dropped mobi as well. I don't see too much fresh blood entering the market as domainers. It's usually the same small yet vocal group.

The application of mobi is limited. mTLD itself limits the extension with development requirements. Next is the limitations of usage on a cell phone. Next is the genre for which the mobi user will actually use mobi for. The use of the internet isn't the same when mobile. Yes it's evolving but still the application has it's limitations. It's mainly geo information which is the strength of mobi. Sites like nv.mobi imho are perfect examples. So this greatly limits the usage of domains.

I will admit. I maybe wrong. Three years into this discussion and I have not been. Mobi resale valuations have tanked for domainers.

I don't believe that reflects the success of mobi as an extension. It only reflects the success of mobi as a domainer investment. Let's seperate the two. Because if you believe that every new mobi site has suddenly increased your portfolio value then you're mistaken imho.

In case you want to ask me what would make mobi a success for domainers...well quite simpy more resales that hit the charts. When more end-users start buying mobi from domainers for good money. When they are willing to fork over $x,xxx or more for strong keywords. The market is showing that it's stagnant. Do mobi investors deny this? For all the discussions of the mobi future how does mobi investors currently feel about the present? There is too much talk of the future of mobi and not even reflection on the past or the present.

This week DNJ reported Skymobile.com as a $10k sale. The mobi is registered. One has to wonder if it's the people that own skymobile (neither site resolves). The whois for the com is still Moniker for now. But let's say this is the same company. Do you think they paid anything significant for the mobi? If you were the owner of skymobile.mobi what would you value it at? $50? $100? Maybe even $250. The mobi appears to be sunrise so that was what..under $100?

Again...I could totally be wrong. But I don't see why we can't discuss this with respect.

dubstep · 06-28-2009, 02:45 PM

Good post Jesse. Repped.

I hold a relatively small portfolio of .mobi's (~200) and I'm glad I don't own more... but, I will say that for those who still have money to invest, there are currently some nice bargains to be had. Regardless, drop your worst .mobi's and focus on the ones with the best development potential.

mo_dork · 06-28-2009, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by labrocca

The application of mobi is limited. mTLD itself limits the extension with development requirements. Next is the limitations of usage on a cell phone. Next is the genre for which the mobi user will actually use mobi for. The use of the internet isn't the same when mobile. Yes it's evolving but still the application has it's limitations. It's mainly geo information which is the strength of mobi. Sites like nv.mobi imho are perfect examples. So this greatly limits the usage of domains.

I will admit. I maybe wrong. Three years into this discussion and I have not been.

There is a bunch of truth in your post and some inaccuracies. Here's what I think are innacuracies-

1.
"Next is the limitations of usage on a cell phone."
This is not a limitation. In due course more people will be accessing the web via their mobile phones than via their computers. The mobile web will be larger than the regular web. Being in mobile will be an asset.

2.
"Next is the genre for which the mobi user will actually use mobi for."
In due course ALL websites/businesses will need/have a mobile site. Therefor all or nearly all genre's are valid.

3.
"It's mainly geo information which is the strength of mobi."
This is what they said about the regular web 10 years ago. This statement is completely wrong! The mobile web will be used for not only all the stuff the regular web is used for now, but a myriad of new applications too, from monitoring health and fitness, to finances to various social applications, to gaming to mobile TV....

4.
"I will admit. I maybe wrong. Three years into this discussion and I have not been"
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359
You are not wrong, but you will be!
You will be wrong on the day you watch TV on your phone and read a book on your phone and upload your photos to flickr and share your family video to youtube, and check your stock prices and order a pizza and book a flight/check its status/check in, access facebook etc. When all this and so much more is a reality and normal behavior, this is when you can judge if .mobi is a failure.

We are BEGINNING of the mobile era and usage of the .mobi TLD, and there is a long road ahead. But all the above is expected to happen, and its clearly starting to happen and has happened in other parts of the world. The mobile web will be the main web and the biggest medium ever. when this happens a .mobi will be as valid as a .com. Maybe not as good, but definitely a respectable and acceptable and affordable 2nd choice. The world needs a second choice because the dotcoms are all taken and too expensive. If .mobi is not the second choice then what is?
.net?
How big is the market for the 2nd choice?
HUGE

sdsinc · 06-28-2009, 04:11 PM

Great post Jesse, a few comments however:

Originally Posted by labrocca

Mobi is a niche. When you hit a niche market you have to play it very carefully and it's normally a minimal amount of players that do well.

Agreed, at this point .mobi has achieved niche status, no way it's on the road to becoming .com's natural complement but there are still people who won't admit it

Originally Posted by labrocca

Yes I know that LLL's sold out again (positive news imho).

In my view it doesn't mean much. I am astonished when domainers think that a buyout in a TLD will naturally result in higher resale prices. Buyouts have taken place in other extensions like .us .info .biz .in and we all know how much LLL are selling for in those extensions. The buyout is artificial because the demand from end users just isn't there so the prices are stagnating.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Originally Posted by mo_dork

The mobile web will be the main web and the biggest medium ever. when this happens a .mobi will be as valid as a .com. Maybe not as good, but definitely a respectable and acceptable and affordable 2nd choice. The world needs a second choice because the dotcoms are all taken and too expensive. If .mobi is not the second choice then what is?
.net?
How big is the market for the 2nd choice?
HUGE

The second choice to .com ? It is .net. Or your ccTLD. These are more logical choices.
If you're suggesting .mobi can be a convenient replacement for a mainstream TLD like .com you're missing the point.

But I like the way Scandi puts it as it makes sense:

Quote:

Where .mobi can make more sense than the alternatives is for new players focused only on the mobile market

labrocca · 06-28-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Where .mobi can make more sense than the alternatives is for new players focused only on the mobile market

Hard to dispute this but it's also evidence of it being a market niche player only.

Quote:

This is not a limitation. In due course more people will be accessing the web via their mobile phones than via their computers. The mobile web will be larger than the regular web. Being in mobile will be an asset.

Pure speculation. Also even if true the usage will be completely different. IMHO mobile usage will be application based mixed with slight internet usage...more to grab data for display on proprietary software. Imagine Google Maps. It's a local application but it's using the internet to grab the real time data. It's not really "websites" that are of great use and that's where the mobi extension is bypassed completely.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Quote:

In due course ALL websites/businesses will need/have a mobile site. Therefor all or nearly all genre's are valid.

How does this really help mobi the extension? I myself need to build a mobile compliant site for my #1 website. I won't be using mobi at all. m.keyword.com is probably going to be my preferred choice. I think your stretching anyways...as tech develops the need to make a site mobile compliant will diminish.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Quote:

This is what they said about the regular web 10 years ago.

I was here 10 years ago. I don't remember that being said. My ebay account is 12 years old and so is my paypal account.

Quote:

You will be wrong on the day you watch TV on your phone and read a book on your phone and upload your photos to flickr and share your family video to youtube, and check your stock prices and order a pizza and book a flight/check its status/check in, access facebook etc. When all this and so much more is a reality and normal behavior, this is when you can judge if .mobi is a failure.

Even if all that is true it doesn't raise valuations for mobi. I think you missed a great deal of the point I was making. That mobi if succcessful won't be for individual domainers. The connection that mobile web usage is directly related to mobi is a falsehood. Domaining is about the buying and selling of domains. From the perspective of most domainers mobi is a small player with little upward possibilities.

Quote:

The mobile web will be the main web and the biggest medium ever. when this happens a .mobi will be as valid as a .com.

Misguided. The "mobile web" doesn't exist. There is just the internet used on a mobile device. mTLD tried to create an ecosystem and has largely failed. Mobi needs a mobile web but a mobile internet does not need mobi.

Quote:

The world needs a second choice because the dotcoms are all taken and too expensive. If .mobi is not the second choice then what is? .net? How big is the market for the 2nd choice?

Yes...I would prefer .net over a mobi any day of the week. How would you rank mobi right now today? Not some speculative future either but right now. Then consider what has to change for that to happen and how likely are those changes to occur. When I do the calculations it doesn't look good for mobi domainers.

scandiman · 06-28-2009, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by labrocca

NV.mobi..awesome site. Probably the only mobi site I would use on a regular basis and even tell others about. That's great.

Can it be? We finally agree!

Originally Posted by labrocca

Even if mobi does become a household term and used widely by the cell providers by incorporating the magic button. There will still be imho a low valuation for mobi domains. As we continue to see Mobi names get developed and advertised even by well-known national companies I still do not see mobi becoming a success for domainers.

Unfortunately our agreement was short lived.

Do you actually believe this statement? If mobi became a household word and phone makers built in a .mobi button, you honestly believe that all .mobi domains would still have little market value? Really? Even as it continues to be used, developed and advertised by even well-known companies you still don't see a future where domain speculators can profit?

I'm out of smileys to express my bewilderment of your position on this.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Originally Posted by labrocca

This is a domainers forum. This isn't a developers forum.

Really? Developers aren't welcome here? Speculators only? I'm positive you haven't missed this link on the NP homepage... Web Design & Development - NamePros.com

Originally Posted by labrocca

A comparison if you will. Just 5 years ago housing speculators were buying dozens of properties and quick-flipping them for tremendous profit. The hype and unrealistic belief that housing prices couldn't fall created a bubble. Once that bubble burst the investors lost everything. There is still a housing market and houses do have value but from a speculators standpoint it's dead.

Both you and I share a unique perspective on the real estate bubble, I'm in Sacramento and both our markets boomed and busted hard. Do you believe the RE prices will never climb again? Personally I think they will provided the fundamentals still exist in that community, be it industry and/or tourism that bring in wealth and the quality of life is generally stable in terms of infrastructure (water, power, food supply, etc.) Vegas still has a lot going for it as does Sacramento (as long as you can stand the heat lol 107 today here).

Originally Posted by labrocca

We are domainers here. It's not unreasonable to believe that mobi can have some success but at what level and who is going to be successful? There is lots of talk from both camps about development but the truth is that we here are for the most part domainers. Some are pure play that never do anything beyond parking. How does this equate into success for the average domainer?

If people have the opportunity to increase the value of their assets does it not make sense to make that effort? is everything about appeasing the lazy?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Originally Posted by labrocca

A questions was raised a few pages back about how I would view a successful mobi domainer. I would view them with great respect for being able to tredge through a tough market such as mobi. Then I would wonder how much success they would have incorporating that same effort into CNO and wonder why they bother with such a tough extension. It's like being the best jockey on a racetrack with the worst horse. Buy a better horse.

Have you watched Seabiscuit? Winning is winning, even if your jockey is big and your horse is small. The whole can be much greater than the sum of it's parts.

Originally Posted by labrocca

On the YTD (DNJ) charts dotinfo has 7 names listed. Mobi has NONE. This isn't a failure of mobi. It's a failure for mobi domain investors. The two need to be seperated imho.

I prefer to buy low.

Originally Posted by labrocca

Mobi attempted to hit a niche market by attaching itself to the growing mobile use of the internet. This is a good thing imho. The mission of mobi is a great one.

We agree again, except the perception that the mobile market is a niche. This is where I think a lot of people miss the big picture.

Originally Posted by labrocca

I have seen some mobi portfolios and they are complete crap. I can go back 2 years and dig up threads of people boasting of 500 mobi names which are now available to register again.

Yes indeed, a lot of crap was registered, and dropped, and many will likely be registered again...it happens in ALL extensions. Again I wonder why .mobi is held to a different standard here. The fact that a succession of fools register and drop some LookAtMyLame.net has no impact on the value of web.net, whois.net, or any other number of high quality .net domains. Why do you feel .mobi is different in this regard?

Originally Posted by labrocca

The dropping of the LLL.mobi's was very significant but not to mobi...to mobi INVESTORS. This effected the domainers not anyone else. mTLD doesn't really care. Those with development plans don't care. Those with mobi sites don't care. Mobi investors and domainers should certainly care. Yes I know that LLL's sold out again (positive news imho).

As a .mobi investor, developer and speculator, I can assure you I didn't and still don't care about whether or not some random LLL domains are registered. The fixation on this litmus test is quite overrated IMO, the people I may sell a .mobi to don't care either.

Originally Posted by labrocca

If you are indeed a mobi investor please consider your position in the "ecosystem". You're a fringe player that mobi doesn't need. Unless 5 million mobi names are registered to stifle the market and create a higher valuation mobi resales will continue to be low.

You're as relevant and valuable to the future of the extension as you decide to be. You're correct though about the lazy.

Originally Posted by labrocca

I ask that anyone with an open mind really view their mobi portfolio from an end-user point of view and figure out what the mobi is worth and how likely it is to even sell. Mobi domainers do not have the same revenue streams or activity of CNO. They are facing a very uphill battle.

I completely agree with having an open mind...for people on both sides of the fence here.

Originally Posted by labrocca

All the major domainers I know of have dropped mobi completely that's even if they invested to begin with. Some of the top mobi fans early on have now completely dropped mobi as well. I don't see too much fresh blood entering the market as domainers. It's usually the same small yet vocal group.

Being a contrarian can be lonely...but rewarding.

Originally Posted by labrocca

The application of mobi is limited. mTLD itself limits the extension with development requirements. Next is the limitations of usage on a cell phone. Next is the genre for which the mobi user will actually use mobi for. The use of the internet isn't the same when mobile. Yes it's evolving but still the application has it's limitations. It's mainly geo information which is the strength of mobi. Sites like nv.mobi imho are perfect examples. So this greatly limits the usage of domains.

There is absolutely nothing limiting anyone from using .mobi however they like, as long as they provide some content for a mobile visitor. Your view on this is simply a complete misconception and mTLD has stated this, in writing, since before the .mobi landrush.

Originally Posted by labrocca

I will admit. I maybe wrong. Three years into this discussion and I have not been. Mobi resale valuations have tanked for domainers.

I admit I may be wrong too, its my money and time to invest how I see fit. In terms of the tanking prices, I'm actually quite happy, the deals have been great.

Originally Posted by labrocca

Again...I could totally be wrong. But I don't see why we can't discuss this with respect.

I agree with you again, three or four times in one post, I think that's a record.

You haven't changed your positions about .mobi much but you certainly have changed your tone for which I am thankful. rep+

mo_dork · 06-28-2009, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by sdsinc

The second choice to .com ? It is .net. Or your ccTLD. These are more logical choices.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359
If you're suggesting .mobi can be a convenient replacement for a mainstream TLD like .com you're missing the point.

What you're saying seems logical as the other TLD's have been around forever. And probably right now, today its true. But remember we (most serious mobi investors) are talking about the future, its all about the future.

So, experiment. I just went to pred's site-
Famous Brands adopting Dot Mobi |Mobi Site |.mobi sites| Mobile Brands

I started at the top row, first 3 names on the list, to see what other TLD's these big corporations think are important. Here is what I found-

bofa.com - Bank of America live site
bofa.net - sedo
bofa.org - sedo
bofa.mobi - Bank of America live site
bofa.co.uk - random site
bofa.tv - parked

barclays.com - Barclays Bank live site
barclays.net - no site
barclays.org - no site
barclays.mobi - Barclays Bank live site
barclays.co.uk - forwards into .mobi site!
barclays.tv - parked

chase.com - Chase Bank live site
chase.net - parked
chase.org - parked
chase.mobi - Chase Bank live site
chase.co.uk - parked
chase.tv - parked

These are quite striking results. I imagine that if you continue down the list this pattern may continue?
I believe the pattern will continue and also the actual list will get substantially longer.

incredibly barclays.co.uk - forwards into .mobi site.
This is a UK bank using the UK ccTLD to go mobi.

I just wikipedia'ed barclays-

Barclays PLC is ranked as the 25th largest company in the world according to Forbes Global 2000 (2008 list) and the fourth largest financial services provider in the world according to Tier 1 capital ($32.5 billion). It is the second largest bank in the United Kingdom

= you cannot dismiss.mobi
= the world is changing

snoop · 06-28-2009, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by HeyNow

SNOOP sez: The reason why "Dot coms are not 100% safe." from udrp is because they are desired. If enduser really wanted .mobi's you'd see alot of UDRP's aswell. It is a bit like telling people not to live in a nice house because you might get robbed.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

The reason dot-coms are overwhelmingly UDRPed is because there are many more typo-squatters and cybersquatters crapping in .com than any other TLD, period. Trademark holders don't discriminate against various TLDs, they go after typo-squatters, cybersquatters, and trademark infringers, regardless of TLD.

Why do you protect those who typo-squat and cybersquat. Are you one of them?

It is much the same thing with typos. Like I said those names are desired, even the typos. If .mobi was popular there would be lots of squatting and much the same kind of thing.

Instead of that as another poster mentioned there has been 67 .mobi UDRP,

'Hooray, our names are safe, nobody wants them!'.

scandiman · 06-28-2009, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by snoop

Instead of that as another poster mentioned there has been 67 .mobi UDRP,
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

'Hooray, our names are safe, nobody wants them!'.

Some high profile udrp's for .mobi IMO, take a look before you cast this blanket judgment.

mo_dork · 06-28-2009, 08:46 PM

We are wasting too much time on this subject!
We should check back in 2011

labrocca · 06-28-2009, 10:51 PM

Quote:

We should check back in 2011

That's what they were saying in 2005. Three years later and lots of blood is on the floor.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Quote:

Do you actually believe this statement? If mobi became a household word and phone makers built in a .mobi button, you honestly believe that all .mobi domains would still have little market value?

Yes I believe that. What guarantees that popular use in the future would mean high valuations?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Quote:

Even as it continues to be used, developed and advertised by even well-known companies you still don't see a future where domain speculators can profit?

Well known companies can UDRP to gain their mobi if they haven't got it already or will just use one of any number of alternatives. Mobi won't become or least hasn't yet the "must-have" extension for a mobile site. I don't see a great deal of new mobile only startups using mobi.

Quote:

I prefer to buy low.

Exactly why it's not going to increase much in value. Developers of mobi will continue to push down prices as they refuse to pay more. It's still a buyers market. I don't see anything in the near future to change that. Lots of decent stuff available for under $50 to develop. Why pay $xxx for any mobi?

Quote:

Why do you feel .mobi is different in this regard?

Mobi has a very small amount of names actually registered. It's been in decline actually. .biz has nearly 3 times the amount of registered domains and is still increasing...just to compare. Mobi has continued to bleed registrations. This makes the chances of registering something decent fairly high and again...killing resale value.

HosterStats.com: gTLD and ccTLD Domain Name Counts 2009

Would you say that .biz is a good domainer investment?

Quote:

There is absolutely nothing limiting anyone from using .mobi however they like, as long as they provide some content for a mobile visitor.

Hmm...interesting.

dotMobi Switch On! Web Developer Guide

Scroll down to "4. Registrant Rules". Where it also says "Mandatory Registrant Rules".

Mandatory does not equal optional. I have yet to see them enforce that policy and take back a domain but it might scare away potential companies and investors.

Quote:

You haven't changed your positions about .mobi much but you certainly have changed your tone for which I am thankful. rep+

Well that's where I got the "recovering jerk" title. I have a sarcastic sense of humor. I know exactly what many mobi fans think of me but since I have taken on the Forum Moderator position I decided to tone down my rhetoric a bit. Glad you noticed.

scandiman · 06-29-2009, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by labrocca

Yes I believe that. What guarantees that popular use in the future would mean high valuations?

Well known companies can UDRP to gain their mobi if they haven't got it already or will just use one of any number of alternatives. Mobi won't become or least hasn't yet the "must-have" extension for a mobile site. I don't see a great deal of new mobile only startups using mobi.

Exactly why it's not going to increase much in value. Developers of mobi will continue to push down prices as they refuse to pay more. It's still a buyers market. I don't see anything in the near future to change that. Lots of decent stuff available for under $50 to develop. Why pay $xxx for any mobi?

I'm curious, in your opinion is there anything that you see that could raise the profile and value of .mobi? What would that be?

So far you've ruled out any impact from:
-.mobi is a household word
- .mobi is developed and promoted by end-users, including well known companies
- mobile phone manufactures adding a .mobi button

Originally Posted by labrocca

It's still a buyers market. I don't see anything in the near future to change that. Lots of decent stuff available for under $50 to develop. Why pay $xxx for any mobi?

"Decent" may be available for $50, but exceptional will cost you much more.

Originally Posted by labrocca

Mobi has a very small amount of names actually registered. It's been in decline actually. .biz has nearly 3 times the amount of registered domains and is still increasing...just to compare. Mobi has continued to bleed registrations. This makes the chances of registering something decent fairly high and again...killing resale value.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

HosterStats.com: gTLD and ccTLD Domain Name Counts 2009

Would you say that .biz is a good domainer investment?

I don't follow .biz so I can't offer an informed opinion on that extension, but your comments of .mobi still bleeding registrations seems contrary to other info I've read saying the landrush junk dump has stabilized.

Originally Posted by labrocca

Hmm...interesting.

dotMobi Switch On! Web Developer Guide

Scroll down to "4. Registrant Rules". Where it also says "Mandatory Registrant Rules".

Mandatory does not equal optional. I have yet to see them enforce that policy and take back a domain but it might scare away potential companies and investors.

Yes, read 4.1.1... "at a minimum, visitors to dotMobi sites must receive a message that is displayable by their browser, directing them to a portion of the site that is accessible to them, or identifying the type of device that is necessary to experience the site properly."

This is not hard to do.

Originally Posted by labrocca

Well that's where I got the "recovering jerk" title. I have a sarcastic sense of humor. I know exactly what many mobi fans think of me but since I have taken on the Forum Moderator position I decided to tone down my rhetoric a bit. Glad you noticed.

It's a benefit to NP.

mo_dork · 06-29-2009, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by mo_dork

What you're saying seems logical as the other TLD's have been around forever. And probably right now, today its true. But remember we (most serious mobi investors) are talking about the future, its all about the future.

So, experiment. I just went to pred's site-
Famous Brands adopting Dot Mobi |Mobi Site |.mobi sites| Mobile Brands

I started at the top row, first 3 names on the list, to see what other TLD's these big corporations think are important. Here is what I found-

bofa.com - Bank of America live site
bofa.net - sedo
bofa.org - sedo
bofa.mobi - Bank of America live site
bofa.co.uk - random site
bofa.tv - parked

barclays.com - Barclays Bank live site
barclays.net - no site
barclays.org - no site
barclays.mobi - Barclays Bank live site
barclays.co.uk - forwards into .mobi site!
barclays.tv - parked

chase.com - Chase Bank live site
chase.net - parked
chase.org - parked
chase.mobi - Chase Bank live site
chase.co.uk - parked
chase.tv - parked

These are quite striking results. I imagine that if you continue down the list this pattern may continue?
I believe the pattern will continue and also the actual list will get substantially longer.

incredibly barclays.co.uk - forwards into .mobi site.
This is a UK bank using the UK ccTLD to go mobi.

I just wikipedia'ed barclays-

Barclays PLC is ranked as the 25th largest company in the world according to Forbes Global 2000 (2008 list) and the fourth largest financial services provider in the world according to Tier 1 capital ($32.5 billion). It is the second largest bank in the United Kingdom

= you cannot dismiss.mobi
= the world is changing

I am quoting myself on this one. I think the above info is worthy of a comment from labrocca and kate. Don't you guys think this is interesting. It suggests a trend. And for such a young TLD as .mobi it is very impressive.

acc · 06-29-2009, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by mo_dork

What you're saying seems logical as the other TLD's have been around forever. And probably right now, today its true. But remember we (most serious mobi investors) are talking about the future, its all about the future.

So, experiment. I just went to pred's site-
Famous Brands adopting Dot Mobi |Mobi Site |.mobi sites| Mobile Brands

I started at the top row, first 3 names on the list, to see what other TLD's these big corporations think are important. Here is what I found-

bofa.com - Bank of America live site
bofa.net - sedo
bofa.org - sedo
bofa.mobi - Bank of America live site
bofa.co.uk - random site
bofa.tv - parked

barclays.com - Barclays Bank live site
barclays.net - no site
barclays.org - no site
barclays.mobi - Barclays Bank live site
barclays.co.uk - forwards into .mobi site!
barclays.tv - parked

chase.com - Chase Bank live site
chase.net - parked
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359
chase.org - parked
chase.mobi - Chase Bank live site
chase.co.uk - parked
chase.tv - parked

These are quite striking results. I imagine that if you continue down the list this pattern may continue?
I believe the pattern will continue and also the actual list will get substantially longer.

incredibly barclays.co.uk - forwards into .mobi site.
This is a UK bank using the UK ccTLD to go mobi.

I just wikipedia'ed barclays-

Barclays PLC is ranked as the 25th largest company in the world according to Forbes Global 2000 (2008 list) and the fourth largest financial services provider in the world according to Tier 1 capital ($32.5 billion). It is the second largest bank in the United Kingdom

= you cannot dismiss.mobi
= the world is changing

It's funny you should post this because it is exactly what I thought of when people post here and continue to totally overlook and disregard the ongoing adoption of .mobi and the bypassing of other TLDs by businesses worldwide.

All the other extensions (unless they are ccTLDSs of a serious target marketing effort to specific countries) are of no NEW marketing advantage to global companies. The mobile web - which .mobi is specifically made to address - is the NEW place to advertise and sell in the future. And the future is just getting started now.

Dot mobi doesn't claim to be or have to be the ONLY way to reach mobile content, it is just ONE of the ways to get there - but most importantly it TELLS YOU it's okay to visit it with a mobile device. All other TLDs are desktop-centric. Dot mobi is mobile-centric.
.

.

snoop · 06-29-2009, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by scandiman

I'm curious, in your opinion is there anything that you see that could raise the profile and value of .mobi? What would that be?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

So far you've ruled out any impact from:
-.mobi is a household word
- .mobi is developed and promoted by end-users, including well known companies
- mobile phone manufactures adding a .mobi button

And what would be the effect if Barack Obama wore a .mobi t-shirt every day for the next 2 years?

Who cares, none of this is ever going to happen. If it did happen it would be positive, but that is just fantasy.

mo_dork · 06-29-2009, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by labrocca

I was here 10 years ago. I don't remember that being said. My ebay account is 12 years old and so is my paypal account.

There was a period 10, 12 + years ago when the mass public and media/business in general didn't see the worth of .com domains.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Most good investments require time to mature and patience to make it through until maturity. Mobi is in this phase now.

snoop · 06-29-2009, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by mo_dork

There was a period 10, 12 + years ago when the mass public and media/business in general didn't see the worth of .com domains.

Most good investments require time to mature and patience to make it through until maturity. Mobi is in this phase now.

That was a time before the Internet was popular.It is no longer 1997 and things on the Internet either live or die in a fairly short space of time, twitter, facebook, youtube etc. New extensions do not have the luxury of growing up with the growth of the Internet that all past successful extensions had, the environment is very different now.

labrocca · 06-30-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

I'm curious, in your opinion is there anything that you see that could raise the profile and value of .mobi?

Raising the profile doesn't mean the value will significantly increase. Yes it would go up some but I believe relative to CNO it wouldn't be much. What would raise the value substantially? Another round of hype. However I have never seen a 2 round hype of any market. People can be fooled once into believing something is "it" but that time has passed. I would rather invest in Beenie Babies.

Quote:

"Decent" may be available for $50, but exceptional will cost you much more.

Most of the exceptional names are held by mTLD. I see that as a problem for the extension don't you? Even what's released at sunrise how many have $xx,xxx value? I personally don't see any $xx,xxx mobi sales happening anytime soon.

Quote:

I don't follow .biz so I can't offer an informed opinion on that extension, but your comments of .mobi still bleeding registrations seems contrary to other info I've read saying the landrush junk dump has stabilized.

Well it's not as bad as 3-4 months ago but it's still losing numbers. Click the link I posted.

Quote:

I am quoting myself on this one. I think the above info is worthy of a comment from labrocca and kate. Don't you guys think this is interesting. It suggests a trend. And for such a young TLD as .mobi it is very impressive.

Banks and mobile make sense. The success of mobi domainers being attached to a few niche markets won't fly. A successful mobi site doesn't mean the success of mobi as an investment. Mobi fans continue to herald the coming of every major corp using mobi but I see little to indicate corps are willing to pay serious money to acquire mobi domains.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Are mobi domainers unaware they are INVESTING into mobi to make money or are they simply happy to "collect" mobi names for some cool factor amongst their friends? Next thing you know Mobi is going to make collector cards for it's fan base. Domaining is about investing in domains to turn a profit. If you develop sites to make money...I got news for you. You're out of the domainer category for the most part.

Quote:

There was a period 10, 12 + years ago when the mass public and media/business in general didn't see the worth of .com domains.

Most good investments require time to mature and patience to make it through until maturity. Mobi is in this phase now.

If you believe that then hold your domains. I don't believe it for one second. Neither do many others. And most bad investments take time to realize it too. There really isn't a big point here from you. It's another comparison of mobi to com which borders on the absurd.

Quote:

That was a time before the Internet was popular.It is no longer 1997 and things on the Internet either live or die in a fairly short space of time, twitter, facebook, youtube etc. New extensions do not have the luxury of growing up with the growth of the Internet that all past successful extensions had, the environment is very different now.

Yup...mobi hasn't reinvented the wheel here. It's just made a twist on it. For the most part mTLD is just another extension like info, biz, or name. I would much rather own some good biz domains right now.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Psst...just sold a LLL.biz today for $600.

mo_dork · 06-30-2009, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by labrocca

Banks and mobile make sense. The success of mobi domainers being attached to a few niche markets won't fly. A successful mobi site doesn't mean the success of mobi as an investment. Mobi fans continue to herald the coming of every major corp using mobi but I see little to indicate corps are willing to pay serious money to acquire mobi domains.

Like I said I didn't sift through the list shown on mobisite.org to pick financial companies. I just took the first 3 names at the top of the list. The reason I did that was to avoid someone saying exactly what you just said. Does someone else want to pick the first name from each section and run the same test? (probably a waste of time around here).
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Originally Posted by labrocca

Are mobi domainers unaware they are INVESTING into mobi to make money or are they simply happy to "collect" mobi names for some cool factor amongst their friends? Next thing you know Mobi is going to make collector cards for it's fan base. Domaining is about investing in domains to turn a profit. If you develop sites to make money...I got news for you. You're out of the domainer category for the most part.

We are not all claiming to be domainers. You can be involved in both domaining and development. I want to maximize my investment and with mobi there are greater opportunities in development than there are with domaining currently, as the timelines are more long term. Extra time to develop is an asset, extra time sitting around waiting for a portfolio to mature is a pain. I think you will find with many mobi investors, especially the ones with solid generics, there is the realization that due to the quality of names owned, there is a genuine opportunity to develop a substantial business.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

If you look at the subcategories on this site, you will see development, monetization and marketing related topics, hence we on this forum have differing motivations.
.mobi dead or .mobi on NP dead?
This doesn't just relate to price of aftermarket sales today, it relates to the whole worth and future potential of .mobi in general. I am on this thread to address this and balance your inaccurate statements.

---Quote---
There was a period 10, 12 + years ago when the mass public and media/business in general didn't see the worth of .com domains. Most good investments require time to mature and patience to make it through until maturity. Mobi is in this phase now. ---End Quote---

Originally Posted by labrocca

I don't believe it for one second. Neither do many others. And most bad investments take time to realize it too. There really isn't a big point here from you. It's another comparison of mobi to com which borders on the absurd.

I wasn't comparing to .com I was finding an example of something that took time to grow and appreciate. Your comparison to facebook and twitter is inaccurate, not only are these companies unusually successful, they are also just singular companies not whole ecosystems that ofcourse require a greater time to mature. By your reckoning there is no future or money to be made in greentech as it takes too long to mature and has been around for a while.

snoop · 06-30-2009, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by mo_dork

We are not all claiming to be domainers. You can be involved in both domaining and development. I want to maximize my investment and with mobi there are greater opportunities in development than there are with domaining currently, as the timelines are more long term. Extra time to develop is an asset, extra time sitting around waiting for a portfolio to mature is a pain.

The thing is this is a domain forum and most of us own hundreds of names. It is one thing to say say some of us are developers but in reality that is true of very few people.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Originally Posted by mo_dork

I think you will find with many mobi investors, especially the ones with solid generics, there is the realization that due to the quality of names owned, there is a genuine opportunity to develop a substantial business.

Claiming you are a developer has got a heck of alot more common (especially in failing extensions) because it is plain to see that their is pretty much no money in alot of areas of domaining right now.

Most of us are sitting on names waiting for buyers and in domainer language "development" usually means setting up some garbage quality template site, adding some content on a topic you known nothing about (you only set up the site because you own the domain, right?), and sticking alot of adsense ads on it. Outside of the domain industry very few would see that as development.

sdsinc · 06-30-2009, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by mo_dork

I am quoting myself on this one. I think the above info is worthy of a comment from labrocca and kate. Don't you guys think this is interesting. It suggests a trend. And for such a young TLD as .mobi it is very impressive.

Guess what, some of the companies you quoted have .jobs domains too. Actually there are quite a few large companies that own their .jobs.
That doesn't make .jobs a well-known, high-profile extension.

I would be willing to accept your points, but in the end it all boils down to critical mass. Until it is embraced on a large scale by end users, it will remain a fringe extension.

Originally Posted by mo_dork

There was a period 10, 12 + years ago when the mass public and media/business in general didn't see the worth of .com domains.

Most good investments require time to mature and patience to make it through until maturity. Mobi is in this phase now.

It's not just a question of time. Extensions like .biz have been around for years and they are as worthless as they were at birth. Ditto for the obscure ccTLDs with no local market.

mo_dork · 06-30-2009, 04:45 PM

I am not exactly sure of what the strict interpretation of 'domaining' is, its probably quite vague, I would say it is something like- making financial benefit from domain names. If parking domains is including in this, and mass development is included, then general development is included, and all forms of development and monetization are included, they are just different strategies. Each domain may require such a different strategy, some are about sustainable income, some are about holding for resale to end-user. So the worth of a domain needs to be ascertained from many angles, not just the old wait for end user price. That goes for all domains. I say .mobi has an additional complexity in that it relates to a medium that mostly does not exist as yet. Hence the demand for .mobis does not exist except from the early adopters. I am betting that mobis will be valued and sort after in the future when the mobile web matures.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

My point-
The initial theme of this thread is people siding one way or the other regarding their view on the overall worth of .mobi domains. But then some people are using the current price and usage as if this is its already a done deal. However infact we are just getting started, and from what i am seeing, I believe for a 2.5 year old TLD is amazing-
Famous Brands adopting Dot Mobi |Mobi Site |.mobi sites| Mobile Brands
Showcase | mobiThinking

---------- Post added at 06:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:24 PM ----------

Originally Posted by sdsinc

Guess what, some of the companies you quoted have .jobs domains too. Actually there are quite a few large companies that own their .jobs.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359
That doesn't make .jobs a well-known, high-profile extension.

I would be willing to accept your points, but in the end it all boils down to critical mass. Until it is embraced on a large scale by end users, it will remain a fringe extension.

It's not just a question of time. Extensions like .biz have been around for years and they are as worthless as they were at birth. Ditto for the obscure ccTLDs with no local market.

".......n the end it all boils down to critical mass. until it is embraced on a large scale by end users, it will remain a fringe extension"

"UNTIL" next you'll be saying WHEN!

Its definitely not a question of time. There has to be a need.
The need-
CNO is taken/too expensive for new businesses.
Existing corps find it useful to brand their cool new mobile site.

Also needed is content. There can't be users before their is content. The content seems to be growing everyday. The trend is more content and more big corps every single day.

Hopefully this organic growth will be enough as mTLD has performed very poorly on other marketing efforts IMO. I think .mobi is ripe for some kind of viral marketing effort but there have been absolutely zero campaigns beyond a boring mtld airport ad. I don't like to complain about mtld as they are working hard and in many directions and creating great tools for all, but if .tel can produce a compelling video that is passed around just because it is fun, then surely mtld can do something. they should seek out the most innovative ad agency to create something really clever to push this forward.

Such marketing efforts would have been counter-productive whilst there is/was no content out there, but we are getting to a point where the content is ready for the audience.

This probably also needs to be done before the gTLDs kick off and the world has TLD overload.

Regarding .jobs etc, I am sure there are many using these and .info and .biz, but it just so happens the 3 huge banks I picked were using mobi and not .net or .org. I wasn't expecting this either.

snoop · 06-30-2009, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by mo_dork

The need-
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359
CNO is taken/too expensive for new businesses.
Existing corps find it useful to brand their cool new mobile site.

How many times have we heard that? .biz, .info, .us. The fact is there is unlimted numbers of usable domains in existsing tlds and the vast majority of co's will choose a longer domain in an existing tld than a shorter one in a new tld.

mo_dork · 06-30-2009, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by snoop

How many times have we heard that? .biz, .info, .us. The fact is there is unlimted numbers of usable domains in existsing tlds and the vast majority of co's will choose a longer domain in an existing tld than a shorter one in a new tld.

You are wrong, look at post# 183
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

But we can all agree with you if you want.
See you in the future

06-28-2009, 01:45 PM	#177 (permalink)
labrocca NamePros Expert Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 6,277 Follow @supportforums	NV.mobi..awesome site. Probably the only mobi site I would use on a regular basis and even tell others about. That's great. So many mobi fans want mobi to be successful. Even if mobi does become a household term and used widely by the cell providers by incorporating the magic button. There will still be imho a low valuation for mobi domains. As we continue to see Mobi names get developed and advertised even by well-known national companies I still do not see mobi becoming a success for domainers. Sales of CNO which are touted weekly on DNJournal show that the resale values of Mobi are nearly non-existant. Even info regularly outperforms mobi. Why the mobi fans can't see that I will never know? ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/dot-mobi/590359-mobi-dead-or-mobi-np-dead.html This is a domainers forum. This isn't a developers forum. Which if you do travel to one of the many developer communities mobi is a pariah. For domainers mobi had it's moment and then it fizzled. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359 A comparison if you will. Just 5 years ago housing speculators were buying dozens of properties and quick-flipping them for tremendous profit. The hype and unrealistic belief that housing prices couldn't fall created a bubble. Once that bubble burst the investors lost everything. There is still a housing market and houses do have value but from a speculators standpoint it's dead. We are domainers here. It's not unreasonable to believe that mobi can have some success but at what level and who is going to be successful? There is lots of talk from both camps about development but the truth is that we here are for the most part domainers. Some are pure play that never do anything beyond parking. How does this equate into success for the average domainer? A questions was raised a few pages back about how I would view a successful mobi domainer. I would view them with great respect for being able to tredge through a tough market such as mobi. Then I would wonder how much success they would have incorporating that same effort into CNO and wonder why they bother with such a tough extension. It's like being the best jockey on a racetrack with the worst horse. Buy a better horse. On the YTD (DNJ) charts dotinfo has 7 names listed. Mobi has NONE. This isn't a failure of mobi. It's a failure for mobi domain investors. The two need to be seperated imho. Mobi attempted to hit a niche market by attaching itself to the growing mobile use of the internet. This is a good thing imho. The mission of mobi is a great one. I believe mTLD has made a ton of mistakes though. Mobi domainers are the ones who are paying the price for those mistakes. Mobi is a niche. When you hit a niche market you have to play it very carefully and it's normally a minimal amount of players that do well. I have seen some mobi portfolios and they are complete crap. I can go back 2 years and dig up threads of people boasting of 500 mobi names which are now available to register again. The dropping of the LLL.mobi's was very significant but not to mobi...to mobi INVESTORS. This effected the domainers not anyone else. mTLD doesn't really care. Those with development plans don't care. Those with mobi sites don't care. Mobi investors and domainers should certainly care. Yes I know that LLL's sold out again (positive news imho). If you are indeed a mobi investor please consider your position in the "ecosystem". You're a fringe player that mobi doesn't need. Unless 5 million mobi names are registered to stifle the market and create a higher valuation mobi resales will continue to be low. I ask that anyone with an open mind really view their mobi portfolio from an end-user point of view and figure out what the mobi is worth and how likely it is to even sell. Mobi domainers do not have the same revenue streams or activity of CNO. They are facing a very uphill battle. All the major domainers I know of have dropped mobi completely that's even if they invested to begin with. Some of the top mobi fans early on have now completely dropped mobi as well. I don't see too much fresh blood entering the market as domainers. It's usually the same small yet vocal group. The application of mobi is limited. mTLD itself limits the extension with development requirements. Next is the limitations of usage on a cell phone. Next is the genre for which the mobi user will actually use mobi for. The use of the internet isn't the same when mobile. Yes it's evolving but still the application has it's limitations. It's mainly geo information which is the strength of mobi. Sites like nv.mobi imho are perfect examples. So this greatly limits the usage of domains. I will admit. I maybe wrong. Three years into this discussion and I have not been. Mobi resale valuations have tanked for domainers. I don't believe that reflects the success of mobi as an extension. It only reflects the success of mobi as a domainer investment. Let's seperate the two. Because if you believe that every new mobi site has suddenly increased your portfolio value then you're mistaken imho. In case you want to ask me what would make mobi a success for domainers...well quite simpy more resales that hit the charts. When more end-users start buying mobi from domainers for good money. When they are willing to fork over $x,xxx or more for strong keywords. The market is showing that it's stagnant. Do mobi investors deny this? For all the discussions of the mobi future how does mobi investors currently feel about the present? There is too much talk of the future of mobi and not even reflection on the past or the present. This week DNJ reported Skymobile.com as a $10k sale. The mobi is registered. One has to wonder if it's the people that own skymobile (neither site resolves). The whois for the com is still Moniker for now. But let's say this is the same company. Do you think they paid anything significant for the mobi? If you were the owner of skymobile.mobi what would you value it at? $50? $100? Maybe even $250. The mobi appears to be sunrise so that was what..under $100? Again...I could totally be wrong. But I don't see why we can't discuss this with respect. __________________ :$: Support Forum <-- My latest endeavor.:loveyou: Debate Forums Free Online Sudoku My vBum Blog

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06-28-2009, 02:45 PM	#178 (permalink)
dubstep Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 2,986	Good post Jesse. Repped. I hold a relatively small portfolio of .mobi's (~200) and I'm glad I don't own more... but, I will say that for those who still have money to invest, there are currently some nice bargains to be had. Regardless, drop your worst .mobi's and focus on the ones with the best development potential.

06-28-2009, 08:46 PM	#186 (permalink)
mo_dork NamePros Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 184	We are wasting too much time on this subject! We should check back in 2011

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