dotcomisdead

I respect your reply; fair comments indeed, we simply disagree on a few points..

1. You are relying on a single $10k (2009) value dotcom holding it's value relative to the market..
(so if we see 25% inflation over 5 years you're looking for $12,500 + any 'real' capital gain)

2. You say 99% of value is c/n/o & country codes). I agree with you to a point but I believe that there will be a shift within that group; country codes will outperform in relative terms.

3. I genuinely believe that your list in 5 years will be that 99% of the value is is c/countrycodes/mobi/n/o (and in that order) .

snoop

I'm not relying on anything holding its value, I'm simply saying cheap names have issues with holding costs. Buy 10 $1000 names if you want. $6 names however are a huge risk.

It has already happened in my view over the last year or so. That is to say nothing for the future. I think a couple of years ago many would have predicted .mobi to outperform, instead of that it was the peak of the market.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/dot-mobi/590359-mobi-dead-or-mobi-np-dead.html

I don't doubt that you think that, are you believing in your own BS though, that is the question?

I mean that seriously, remember we are all wrong about 50% of the time and when it comes to predictions involving a future change we are probably wrong an even higher % of the time. Personally I have no certain idea what the future will bring, so I'm interested in doing what works today, that does not including owning domain where the reg fees have a large effect on the domain value, it is like living in a country with 90% taxes, the odds are stacked against you.

dotcomisdead

Toodle pip

exsedo

I'm surprised that ' naysayer dot mobi ' is still available considering the number of times it's used in this thread

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kemjika11

where are the .mobi sales?

If people are able to sell .mobis at even an average rate compared to the major TLDs, then good luck to .mobi and there probably will be some big sales in the future.If .mobi can create sales and exchanges, then it will be back on track...

scandiman

I've been enjoying the good prices.

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mis_chiff

I just read your post after seeing the front page of Sedo today
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

usone.mobi 500 $US - (not mine)

snoop

Ask the market? It has peaked. It is a bit like the Nasdaq, how could it have peaked 9 years ago when the Internet has grown so much? The answer is people get well ahead of reality with valuations.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

You'd hope so given the risk levels involved with it.

-REECE-

A post I think everyone investing for the long term should read: e-Buy.com: A piece of internet history.. in 2000, a 7 million offer received?! - NamePros.com . Bottom line is what Snoop said -- we're wrong 50% of the time and most likely more when we're trying to predict the future of something we've invested in.

acc

dotcomisdead - There are diehard anti-mobi domainers. No matter how you explain anything they will spin it negatively against .mobi.

Re: the $10,000 single LLL.com vs. $10k worth of .mobi regs. I get your point loud and clear even if some can't.

All domain investing is speculative. Even the "safest" domainer trading cards - LLL.com - took a big hit and tanked to under $3k each for a while. And to see the fallicy of "just .com domaining" even more clearly look at the "little sisters" - the LLLL.coms. Reece's signature says it all ... "Under 500 LLLL.coms left. Only $1.50 per if you buy all."

$1.50 each for LLLL.coms? Say, weren't the next big safest .com domainer investment all locked at about $40-$50 each just last fall? Can't go wrong with dot com ... right .... That same $$$ could have been invested in pure generic .mobi names that have REAL WORLD meaning and straight forward development potential instead of being domainer trading cards.

Back to the OP's question ... the answer is that it is NP, not the extension although this thread is reviving the discussion here at NP. Dot mobi domaining is active as others mentioned. Lively, friendly, substantive discussion and real development is taking place elsewhere. Somewhere without the need to constantly justify the extension to those who either refuse to admit there is good potential to this new extension or those who just make sport of arguing. We all know that long story.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

That's my answer. Now I'm just gonna skedaddle.

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dotcomisdead

I hear what you say... I am simply trying to educate these poor souls..

I shall skedaddle myself...

Toodle pip



---------- Post added at 01:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 PM ----------

Come now... it's 2009 and you claim the dotmobi market has peaked? You'll be suggesting that the automobile industry peaked in the 1950's next....


Oh.. I guess it did in the USA, it's been downhill ever since for the US metal bashers... but the Japanese & Europeans took over that mantle... look further afield, believe me; America is only the centre of the universe in the movies!

I digress... the global dotmobi market will (imho) peak sometime between 2012 to 2014 before maturing as has the dotcom market.. with it's ups & downs as we are witnessing now..

Tell me in 2015 that the market peaked in 2007 and we might have the supporting evidence to back up your statement... (but I doubt it) But to say that now is far too soon AND don't you know it!

Toodle Pip

sdsinc

Today I received that mail from one of the European banks I use:



PS: they have their .mobi too and it's dead.

Toodle pip™

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scandiman

Thanks for sharing. We'll continue to see multiple approaches by existing PC websites to provide mobile content, no single method has a lock.

Where .mobi can make more sense than the alternatives is for new players focused only on the mobile market. Great keywords in .mobi can be had for a fraction of their .com counterparts (assuming they're available at all) and are perfectly suited for the mobile web entrepreneur.

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finster

But the trouble is to make "mobi" mean anything. It still has virtually zero mindshare outside of domaining circles. It might as well be .cc, .tk, or anything else that no one recognizes as inherently meaningful. Of course .mobi has a better chance than those of becoming meaningful but its going to be a long and expensive road. A .mobi button on Nokia's phones would have made a big difference.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

As for the state of the .mobi market its a near perfect textbook example of an irrational bubble. A lot of .mobi buyers mistakenly followed Rick Schwartz' lead and the market blew up and now both reality and a serious economic downturn have set in. Fact is Rick only bought flowers.mobi because he knew that people from 800-FLOWERS were in attendence specifically because of that name being offered. No one can accuse him of not being able to smell an opportunity. Pinky Brand was a great salesman and by his efforts alone .mobi was recognized and would have moped along more or less like .info. Now its hard to say if its long-term prospects arnt worse because of the huge runup and the aftermath.

BTW, I bought my 1st .mobi about 6 months ago. A nice adult-related for 40 bucks. Picked us a couple of LLLs on the cheap right after that but now I'm holding steady.

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snoop

Personally I would call low quality LLL.com domains speculative names. You say they are the "safest" domainer trading cards which I'd probably agree with, but that is all they are, trading cards, not business domains.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Even so you can see the difference, LLL.com on the low end dropped from $7600 to $3000 a 60% fall. LLL.mobi on the low end went from $200 to $0, a 100% fall.

This is not true, a lot of people laughed at those names, they were regarded by many as a bubble much like .mobi. Of course some thought they'd shoot for the sky, that is how bubbles come about.

You still would have lost most of your money.

At the end of the day prices do not lie, people can see just how "active" the .mobi space is.

---------- Post added at 03:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 PM ----------

I make no real predictions for the future other than that I think .mobi will always be regarded as an "alt tld" for when better alternatives are gone. The fact is the .mobi market is down 90-100% from its high point, that obviously it has "peaked". Like I said most people are wrong about future predictions, me included, that is why I try not to make them and focus on what makes money here and now and that isn't speculation in .mobi names.

Secondly what is the chance of you still posting in this forum in 2015 anyway? If .mobi is still a bomb and .com still isn't dead then I'm especially sure you won't be around.

-REECE-

I don't think anyone thought LLLL.coms were anywhere near the safest investments, including people like me who invested in them. The low end LLLL.coms actually have a lot in common with .mobi -- they both have very high holding costs and they both lost about 98% of their original value.

If someone had $5000 they wanted to invest in domains, I'd tell them to avoid .mobi at all costs. If they had 500k to invest, putting 5k into .mobi isn't really going to negatively impact their ROI in any significant way. Putting a little money in .mobi is like putting a little money in one of those collapsed bank stocks -- ten years from now looking back, it may have been a great deal or ten years from now you might have lost everything. Like Snoop has said many times, the bad thing about cheap domains is that you can lose a whole lot more than you initially invested over time because those renewal fees keep on coming year after year.

Like LLLL.coms, I would put .mobi into 2 different risk categories -- the people owning $10 domains and the people owning $100+ domains. Obviously the cheaper the domain, the higher the risk.

And for the record, those aren't my domains. I sold almost all my LLLL.coms for $35+ per and am selling 2800 (500ish left) on a broker contract.

snoop

Yes, I think this is a very accurate statement. .mobi, LLLL.com (esp low end) and I would also say .tv (esp premiums) are the three main areas that were really hyped around 2006-2007 and end out losing most of their value. The holding cost issue is the thing all 3 have in common.

acc

Bravo jmcc for a always bringing a dose of reality.

With a real word .mobi name you can ALWAYS make use of it now or in the future. You can put BOTH mobile and full PC content on it. Whether you bought REAL WORD .mobis at landrush for $60 or during the last drop cycle those are way better bets in my opinion than the hundreds of thousands of pure domainer trading cards

Compare that to the domainer trading cards whether it's LLLL, LLLLL, CVCVCVCV, NN-NN, and "brandable" stuff. The LLLL and CVCVCVCC domainer craze is still going and it spills over from .com and .net. You have more domainers constantly churning that stuff and in total throwing more money at it than at .mobi names.


@finster - You can not compare .mobi to .cc, .tk, ws, or anything like that. It is NOT a forced-rebranded ccTLD. >> .mobi is targeted for the mobile market, something NO other domain extension has going for it. .TV is a minor limted-success rebranded ccTLD. You do see them in use. But for my tastes the high premium annual renewal fees are not worth paying. Some who hold the very best names can find it an appropriate risk. Other lesser names maybe but only IF you are planning on developing them out.

All new TLDs when introduced are somewhat akin to company IPOs. All the attention and yes some hype drive prices skyward right at the start. Prices com back down to earth, mellow for a while, and then start to rise IF the "company" can show real future value.


Dot mobi hit the blocks during the height of the domain market and global economic cycle. But many open-minded domainers preregistered and regged names BEFORE the TRAFFIC show containing flowers.mobi. THAT action at TRAFFIC had NOTHING to do with many .mobi investors' original plans to invest/speculate in .mobi in Aug/Sept 2006. Skeptics and naysayers conveniently forget some facts.


Also, for all the bellyaching domainers do about the perceived shortcomings of dotMobi, they are a VERY active organization doing more to build their brand and legacy than any other registry. Long term business plans do not match the flipper mentality of 95% of domainers.


All the LLL.mobis are bought up again now so the minimum is above "$0". However, I do not believe in ANY LLL buyout for ANY extension. Because there are too few POTENTIAL real-world buyers for those several thousand bad letter combination acronyms. There's probably a couple thousand poor LLL.coms that will likely always remain just domainer trading cards. It's been 20 years and they're still unwanted by end users.


In Sep/Oct 2006 or Dec/Jan 2008 >> ALL << domainers had the same opportunity to acquire MANY nice, pure generic term and high quality LLL .mobi names for $60, or under $100 each,

The naysayers (for what ever their reason) and CNO-statist, PPC-minded "experts" had and have the same opportunity to domain with the rest of us who do hold some or many .mobi names. They choose not to. That's fine. But to rule as lords over others who do not share their limited view of the domaining world is
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359


Essentially regarding what dotcomisdead argued with snoop - I'd much rather have 100 or dozens of nice .mobi generics instead of 3 crappy letter combination LLL.com names or 1 better quality LLL.com. Think REAL world application. You have a dozens of chances to either resell some or all of the .mobis in the future at a profit. Or you can build out sites on the .mobis. There is real value there.


@ REECE - If someone had $5000 they wanted to invest in domains, I'D tell them to avoid most run of the mill and lousy letter LLLL.coms and LLLL.nets at all costs. I know that the $1.50 LLL.coms you were selling were for someone else. But THEY gave up some serious cash on their .COMs.


Bottom line is that I'm not saying that a NICE LLL.com holds no value. I'm just saying there is more potential locked up in 100 nice generic .mobi terms. Only one or two or a handful can pay for all the rest and their renewal fees for many years.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Whereas, IF you have all your .com egg(s) in one basket you are at a bigger risk. Because unfortunately even some LLL.coms have become UDRP targets. And if implemented, the newly proposed ICANN rules will make that risk even greater. So their "return" can go negative in a hurry. Dot coms are not 100% safe. Forget about holding costs then because you might not get to hold your .com. I KNOW that's extreme but so is totally writing off the future of .mobi as several of you guys (and gals) continue to do.
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scandiman

I (and simple math) agree with the fact that more domains equals more annual renewal fees, but why would this lead you to telling people to avoid .mobi at all costs? Some high quality .mobi's can be had for $5k or less right now (assuming the owner is willing to part with them), unless you simply have complete disdain for .mobi in general, regardless of the domain quality?

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-REECE-

Agree with you about the bad LLL.coms -- I honestly see no reason why someone would pay $3500 for a terrible LLL.com when even just $4500-$5000 will get them a decent one and that's something I've been saying for quite some time. Sure they're all "domainer collectibles" but what the heck is the point of owning a completely meaningless one which literally doesn't have a chance in hell of finding an end user or even a possible application?

Silly domainers... I don't think most people have money to drop on meaningless trophies in a recession. Same thing for LL.com -- why will a bad one go for 60k or so when a great one only gets 100k? Clearly another case of silly domainers just buying up "rare" domains. With that flawed logic, I should ask 500k for LLLL.com because it's "rare" and there are only 26 domains with 4 repeating letters...

I've never been a fan of valuing a domain based on PPC revenue -- that can drop just like anything else and people with these kind of domains have certainly experienced that over the past couple years. A good domain with revenue as a bonus is nice but I don't see a bad domain making money as much safer than anything else -- possibly less if buying it at an inflated revenue multiple.

I've seen some of your .mobi domains Bill -- they're at least an order of magnitude above the quality of the average .mobi investor. Having 100 good .mobi domains is a pretty different position to be in than having 500 or 1000 "so-so" or outright bad .mobi domains.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

No offense but I think it's a bit ridiculous to compare LLL.com UDRPs to the probability of .mobi failing... There's a handful out of 17,576 LLL.coms each year that are essentially "legally reverse domain hijacked" and it's easily prevented by putting up a few pages on your domain, registering a TM, or incorporating a business around it -- all of which are pretty cheap to do and pretty much guarantee the safety of your short domain. Plenty of generics receive questionable UDRPs as well and nowadays, I wouldn't count any domain as safe, especially if it's a UDRP with a sole panelist.

snoop

Hardly, it die some time ago.

Most of the what they did was about selling domains to domainers in my view.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359


The buyout collpased so obviously it did fall to that level. Not sure what they are worth now, I'm guess a few dollars.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359


Isn't it ironic that you'd describe those who chose not to invest in these names as having "limited views", yet clearly the people who did invest have in the majority of instances lost most of the money their money.

Should we be shocked that you'd prefer to have the .mobi's?


The reason why "Dot coms are not 100% safe." from udrp is because they are desired. If enduser really wanted .mobi's you'd see alot of UDRP's aswell. It is a bit like telling people not to live in a nice house because you might get robbed.

scandiman

A quick search shows 67 UDRP's for .mobi thus far. No doubt more to come.

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acc

Hardly - No, it is just more "acceptable" in the eyes of the CNO crowd for domainers to continue to throw reg fees year after year at LLLL, LLLLL, and CVCVCVCC stuff just because they are ".com".

Yes, that is YOUR view. Just because some others can't seem to give credit where credit is due does not mean that dotMobi is not making strides in bringing .mobi along as part of the burgeoning mobile web.

Have you EVER even looked through all the mobile developer tools and services that dotMobi continues to add and offer to the real world? Just click on the links below to read more:

dotMobi registry
mobiForge mobile developers
mobiForge - .mobi site
Instant Mobilizer
Instant Mobilizer - .mobi site
DeviceAtlas
dotMobi compliance & mobile OK checker
mobiThinking mobile marketing
mobiThinking - mobile site

DotMobi is a mobile services company and .mobi domains are one component of their business plan. All the tools that they develop and promote and continue to work on - all bring .mobi along for the ride. And the .mobi domains help introduce all their tools and services to the --worldwide-- audience.

Again, NO other registry if this active in building its brand and services.

Like I said before and will continue to say - I believe there should be NO buyout ANY extension. Other than being domainer trading cards, several 1000 very poor LLL letter combinations are practically unusable because of their extremely low potential applications. So to the real world the dollar figures continually reported on for the last, worst LLL combinations is just a myopic domainer stat.

Limited views as in not accepting the possibility that .mobi can ever have legs? The "majority" of .mobi investors have lost money? You have NO proof of that at all.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

However, what I have seen in forum threads are many SAD examples of domainers showing documented domain losses on .COM domains. Losses of 10's of thousands of dollars - on .COM domains. They bought, they chose to sell off in the present downturn, they took heavy losses. Snoop, I notice that you have been an active commenter in those discussions. Maybe you can provide us a link or two.

I made my argument for the possibilities. Entrepreneurial risk taking is seeing possibilities where others with entrenched views can't seem to or CHOOSE not to do so. That is a personal decision. If one personally does not have the stomach or wish to move off dead center then they shouldn't.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

My beef is with those who continually chide others who are willing to go with something other than com/net/org with some of their investments. That is poor sportsmanship. Or envy. Or maybe just a need to argue.

I said upfront my example was extreme to make a point. IF one (1) name falls victim to a loss of any kind then the whole $10k is gone. If no end user comes along for that 1 name then it's value is stagnant. Whereas having dozens or up to 100 names that CAN be targetted to multiple users or developed into dozens of websites. That spreads the risk AND the magnifies the opportunities.

Snoop, throughout many threads you have continually poopooed development as not being domaining in its purest sense. If you write off the endless possibilities of domain development (by domainers) then ALL domains are just domainer trading cards.

At the end of the day, and at the very, very least - any .mobi name can be developed with BOTH mobile and PC sized content. So the value inherent in good keyword .mobi names is that they are USABLE in the REAL WORLD.

That is a SOLID fallback position. But in my view and that of many others, that won't even be needed. It is way, way too early in the life of the mobile web and the introduction of .mobi to write it off like you any some others choose to do. At the low level of early investments required, the potential upside for .mobi is huge and a solid fallback option exists for good names. That makes it a worthwhile entrepreneurial choice.

No, It's more like telling people that there is more risk - and potential LOST OPPORTUNITY - in having only (1) $10,000 lot in a prime location subject to earthquakes or tornadoes than having (100) different $100 lots in new neighborhoods to build on. Less risk, more opportunity.

And I think scandiman' sourced stats illustrate the .mobis are coveted by end users.

The fact remains - there are more end users building sister sites on .mobi domains to complement their main websites than on any other of the new extensions. (cctlds excluded)

And, forum member jmcc continues to provide registry stats showing that .mobi registrations are growing again following the drop cycle of the inevitable junk dump phase.

Finally, do not overlook the Documented adoption of .mobi by real world companies:

Famous .mobi Brands from why.mobi
Famous Brands adopting Dot Mobi from mobisite.org
Real world .mobi adoption from OKOK.com
.

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HeyNow

SNOOP sez: The reason why "Dot coms are not 100% safe." from udrp is because they are desired. If enduser really wanted .mobi's you'd see alot of UDRP's aswell. It is a bit like telling people not to live in a nice house because you might get robbed.

The reason dot-coms are overwhelmingly UDRPed is because there are many more typo-squatters and cybersquatters crapping in .com than any other TLD, period. Trademark holders don't discriminate against various TLDs, they go after typo-squatters, cybersquatters, and trademark infringers, regardless of TLD.

Why do you protect those who typo-squat and cybersquat. Are you one of them?

-REECE-

Had to modify your post a bit -- you're welcome to debate but please keep the thread clean of curse words.

That having been said, I certainly agree with you about the .com cybersquatting and typosquatting.

The only reason this is done more in .com than in other extensions is because many of these domains will end up getting type-in traffic and hence a type like facebok.com (Alexa rank 11,609) may end up being quite valuable.