Cats.net - Just sold for $7,000 on Sedo - Page 4

labrocca · 03-18-2009, 03:30 PM

Maybe that's why he has a bad taste in his mouth. That kind of loss would certainly make me a little bitter about .net's.

bmugford · 03-18-2009, 03:32 PM

Well, you can't blame .NET
I figure Cats.net is worth about 1/2 Dogs.net

Cats.net - $25K
Dogs.net - $50K

Those were never reseller prices, especially back in 2005.

The problem is the prices paid, not the extension itself.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/567578-cats-net-just-sold-7-000-a.html

Brad

Originally Posted by labrocca

Maybe that's why he has a bad taste in his mouth. That kind of loss would certainly make me a little bitter about .net's.

snoop · 03-18-2009, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by bmugford

One thing I really wonder about is why someone who thinks so poorly of .NET, as Snoop does, paid $75K in the first place for the pair.

I don't know how you can justify spending $75K for two domains in an extension you constantly belittle.

Brad

Like I said I bought it mainly for speculation, not because I have a lot of faith in the extension ie I thought the price was good. It is hard to remember but I'm guessing I probably also thought the revenue was going to be much better than it was.

Quite often in the past I have bought names that I don't think are at all suited to development and even names that I think are junky but still have value to collectors. eg bought a lot of 3 letter.com from 2002-2005 mainly because I wanted to be fully in vested in domains and couldn't find any keyword domains worth buying at particular times. I've bought .info, .biz's, .cc's also but I'll be the first the admit they are junky extensions, if you go back in time you'll see back then when I bought all those names I was saying the same thing as I'm saying now.

Originally Posted by labrocca

Maybe that's why he has a bad taste in his mouth. That kind of loss would certainly make me a little bitter about .net's.

Overall I've done "ok" out of .net, eg sold skincare.net a couple of weeks ago at Sedo auction for 22k after paying about 10k a few of years ago, nudist.net I sold for 6.6k at Sedo after paying 2k in 2003. Another quite a few years ago I bought for 7k and sold for 20k 6 weeks later (can't disclose that one). I still own quite a few, posters.net, healthcare.net etc which would have fairly substanital profits on them in the current market (I hope!). With all of them I only bought because I thought the price was cheap.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=567578

Overall though I've been surprised at how much the .net market has weakened, they have gone down a lot more in value than .com in my view.

Originally Posted by bmugford

Well, you can't blame .NET
I figure Cats.net is worth about 1/2 Dogs.net

Cats.net - $25K
Dogs.net - $50K

Those were never reseller prices, especially back in 2005.

The problem is the prices paid, not the extension itself.

Brad

Like I said I think that is mainly the problem, the price paid was too high at the time. I think the other, smaller problem, is the degree to which that market has fallen.

bmugford · 03-18-2009, 04:31 PM

Snoop, nice sale on SkinCare.net. Excellent domain for an end user and excellent sale.

HealthCare.net, please don't send that one to public auction without using a broker or contacting end users. That domain is a gem.

Brad

Originally Posted by snoop

Overall I've done "ok" out of .net, eg sold skincare.net a couple of weeks ago at Sedo auction for 22k after paying about 10k a few of years ago, nudist.net I sold for 6.6k at Sedo after paying 2k in 2003. Another quite a few years ago I bought for 7k and sold for 20k 6 weeks later (can't disclose that one). I still own quite a few, posters.net, healthcare.net etc which would have fairly substanital profits on them in the current market (I hope!). With all of them I only bought because I thought the price was cheap.

snoop · 03-18-2009, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by labrocca

I sent you a PM with a couple I have done. I have one now with nearly 500k posts, 30,000 members (all activated), and Alexa of 37k. All that in less than 2 years. And I have created and sold at least a dozen forums over the past 5 years. Many ranging in the $x,xxx area a couple in the $xx,xxx. Domain alone would have earned me squat.

How much work was involved though? My point was that the previous poster seemed to think it was simple of establish a forum that is actually worth something on a good quality domain and that this would obviously add value, I think that is most often not the case. It is a bit like the people who say "put up a blog and make a post every week". With a valuable domain you are killing current revenue doing that, it doesn't necessarily add anything.

However if the name is worth nothing and has no revenue, "earning squat", as you put it, then obviously the only risk is your time. That is why people do that kind of thing a lot of names with no value and no revenue. They see it as better option than letting the name expire.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=567578

I'd compre it to realestate, if you build the wrong house on valubale land it might just be a tear down job. Build it on worthless land in the desert and probably nobody is going to bother, because all the value is in the house, not the land.

bmugford · 03-18-2009, 04:41 PM

I do agree with Snoop launching a forum is generally not an easy task. Development generally adds value to domains, but there are certain times when Parking is more effective.

I have a generic Product.com that makes way more parking that it could developed. It has a CTR over 100%. I am not sure any amount of dev could top the revenue from that.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=567578

Most times keywords do better with quality development. I would prefer to just have domains parked if I was going to put up a content free mini site. If you are going to do proper development then it is well worth it.

Brad

Originally Posted by snoop

How much work was involved though? My point was that the previous poster seemed to think it was simple of establish a forum that is actually worth something on a good quality domain and that this would obviously add value, I think that is most often not the case. It is a bit like the people who say "put up a blog and make a post every week". With a valuable domain you are killing current revenue doing that, it doesn't necessarily add anything.

However if the name is worth nothing and has no revenue, "earning squat", as you put it, then obviously the only risk is your time. That is why people do that kind of thing a lot of names with no value and no revenue. They see it as better option than letting the name expire.

I'd compre it to realestate, if you build the wrong house on valubale land it might just be a tear down job. Build it on worthless land in the desert and probably nobody is going to bother, because all the value is in the house, not the land.

snoop · 03-18-2009, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by bmugford

Snoop, nice sale on SkinCare.net. Excellent domain for an end user and excellent sale.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=567578

HealthCare.net, please don't send that one to public auction without using a broker or contacting end users. That domain is a gem.

Brad

Skincare.net was sold in exactly the same way as cats.net so what is the difference?, ditto for nudist.net and most other domains I've sold.

bmugford · 03-18-2009, 04:45 PM

The difference is that SkinCare.net was lucky enough to get a nice sale.

If you proactively contact end users, then you are taking luck out of the equation.

There are many interested end users for domains who would be happy to make a substantial offer if they knew a domain was for sale.

Why not try it once and see how it goes? You can find 10 likely end users and send out the emails in 30 minutes. What do you have to lose?

Brad

Originally Posted by snoop

Skincare.net was sold in exactly the same way as cats.net so what is the difference?, ditto for nudist.net and most other domains I've sold.

snoop · 03-18-2009, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by bmugford

The difference is that SkinCare.net was lucky enough to get a nice sale.

If you proactively contact end users, then you are taking luck out of the equation.

There are many interested end users for domains who would be happy to make a substantial offer if they knew a domain was for sale.

Why not try it once and see how it goes? You can find 10 likely end users and send out the emails in 30 minutes. What do you have to lose?

Brad

Most auction sales do better than I expect though, it is only about 20% that I am disappointed with.

I can understand that you think they will all show up and outbid domainers but in my experience over the years most enduser are willing to pay far lower prices than domainers most of the time. I think it is pretty apparent from live auctions where the auction houses have tried contacting enduser that rarely are any of them actually interested. Having said all that though I think we are going around in circles once again. Perhaps just realise that despite your claims I don't think trying to attract endusers to a domain auction is a good use of time.

labrocca · 03-18-2009, 05:39 PM

hmm...great discussions my friends...best here in a while imho.

I think the main difference with Skincare.net is that it's a product while cats.net are pets. In truth catfood.net might be worth more. Also skin care products are something that would make for good internet sales. I doubt cats sell over the internet.

Site construction and maitenance can be difficult. There is no doubt about that. But the goal is to earn as much as possible and if that means development then it should be at least a consideration.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=567578

My personal view is that the net extension carries a 5-25% value of it's dotcom counterpart...probably more like 5-10% on average though.

nets imho are the first preference for a non dotcom alternative. ORG is fine too but it's imho more limited.

snoop · 03-18-2009, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by labrocca

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=567578
My personal view is that the net extension carries a 5-25% value of it's dotcom counterpart...probably more like 5-10% on average though.

nets imho are the first preference for a non dotcom alternative. ORG is fine too but it's imho more limited.

From the data I have seen in the past it was generally around 3-4% for keyword names (acronym names the ratio are much tighter though, eg 10% is probably more like it). I think that 3%-4% has slipped though to more like 1%-2%. eg using your 5%-10%could you imagine skincare.com going for $220,000-$440,000 at auction? I couldn't, or bikes.com getting $70,000-$140,000? (the .net sold for $7000 at auction).

Here is some comparable sales from the boom for names sold at roughly similar times, (these are the only directly comparable sales that I know of)

huge.com $106,050
huge.net $3,800

sex.com $12-14 million
sex.net $454,500

chinese.com $1,120,008
chinese.net $180,000

porn.com $9,500,000
porn.net $400,000

gasprices.com $225,000
gasprices.net $4,000

The only one that would fit your ratios above would be the chinese sale, I think that was a weird one personally. (Way too high on the .com and the .net in my view)

bmugford · 03-18-2009, 06:22 PM

There is no easy standard multiplier.

.NET that are product or service related do much better than brandable .NET

It really depends on the term itself, the niche, and many other factors.
If the term is in a high paying field like finance / medical / law it can sell for more.

If the term is in a low paying field the value might not translate as well.

I could just as easily pick .NET that have sold for 15-20% of the .COM if you are going to pick isolated sales.

There are plenty of high end .NET sales where the .COM has not sold, but the formula does not work. The value of all .COM would be 50x - 100x the .NET which is not true.

If you think only .COM has any value, you are missing a golden opportunity.

Brad

Originally Posted by snoop

From the data I have seen in the past it was generally around 3-4% for keyword names (acronym names the ratio are much tighter though, eg 10% is probably more like it). I think that 3%-4% has slipped though to more like 1%-2%. eg using your 5%-10%could you imagine skincare.com going for $220,000-$440,000 at auction? I couldn't, or bikes.com getting $70,000-$140,000? (the .net sold for $7000 at auction).

Here is some comparable sales from the boom for names sold at roughly similar times, (these are the only directly comparable sales that I know of)

huge.com $106,050
huge.net $3,800

sex.com $12-14 million
sex.net $454,500

chinese.com $1,120,008
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=567578
chinese.net $180,000

porn.com $9,500,000
porn.net $400,000

gasprices.com $225,000
gasprices.net $4,000

The only one that would fit your ratios above would be the chinese sale, I think that was a weird one personally. (Way too high on the .com and the .net in my view)

snoop · 03-18-2009, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by bmugford

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=567578
I could just as easily pick .NET that have sold for 15-20% of the .COM

Brad

I would be very interested in seeing that data, I have been watching for these sales for several years and as I said chinese.com/.net is the only one have seen sellingin that range at a reasonably close point in time.

bmugford · 03-18-2009, 07:24 PM

The problem is you are only looking at the ultra high end sales. That is a small portion of the entire market.

There are plenty of .COM that sell for $15 - $25K where the .NET sells for $2 - $4K range.

If you are looking at only the ultra high end sales then .NET could have a ceiling on it.

Brad

Originally Posted by snoop

I would be very interested in seeing that data, I have been watching for these sales for several years and as I said chinese.com/.net is the only one have seen sellingin that range at a reasonably close point in time.

mjbenterprises · 03-18-2009, 07:57 PM

I'm not sure about sales percentages, or anything like that.. All I know is that .net leaves a bad taste in my mouth.. It's really lost a lot of respect in the last couple of years.. I think .org has overtaken .net in the respect area.. Sometimes, when I am checking domains, I find the .org taken , with the .net still avail...This happens in many niches, not just the "traditonal" .org niches...

snoop · 03-18-2009, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by bmugford

There are plenty of .COM that sell for $15 - $25K where the .NET sells for $2 - $4K range.

You have have now said this twice that you could "easily pick .NET that have sold for 15-20% of the .COM". If there is a lot of these sales post them up.

bmugford · 03-18-2009, 09:44 PM

I have better things to do than cherry pick sales, I would rather use my time contacting end users. The sales are there if you want to dig them up, but I would prefer to actually use my time to make sales.

Sorry but your "formula" is not one size fits all. You need to look at various factors which you are unwilling to do.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=567578

If you think .NET is worth 1-2% of .COM then it was pretty stupid to pay $75K for Cats.net / Dogs.net wasn't it?

If you are really interested PM me and I will list some .NET I have sold recently.

Brad

Originally Posted by snoop

You have have now said this twice that you could "easily pick .NET that have sold for 15-20% of the .COM". If there is a lot of these sales post them up.

snoop · 03-18-2009, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by bmugford

I have better things to do than cherry pick sales, I would rather use my time contacting end users. The sales are there if you want to dig them up, but I would prefer to actually use my time to make sales.

Sorry but your "formula" is not one size fits all. You need to look at various factors which you are unwilling to do.

The thing is you are trying to argue that my data is an exception because in your own words ".NET could have a ceiling on it". Yet you are offering no data at all of your own, even though you claim such sales are common and you could "easily pick" these sales. Let me know when you are able to post some actual data like you originally claimed you could.

Originally Posted by bmugford

If you think .NET is worth 1-2% of .COM then it was pretty stupid to pay $75K for Cats.net / Dogs.net wasn't it?

As I already stated I bought it in 2005 and I think the ratio was around 3-4% back then and has fallen to 1-2% over the last year or so.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=567578

Previous to buying cats.net I did actually participate in the tender sale of cats.com so I do know a little about the kind of prices cats.com got. It was over 3 rounds and I was knocked out in the second round because you needed to be within 20% of the top offer to continue (my offer was 400k) The final price wasn't disclosed. Therefore the absolute minimum it could have sold for is 500k and it could have been anything at all above that.

owntype · 03-19-2009, 03:41 AM

Snoop, you should have sent me a PM before the auction ends. I sent you the highest offer $15k for cats and dogs last year. We were going to top it since my partner is a perfect end user. If the buyer didn't pay, let me know your best bin for the pair. Thanks.

Anyway, good luck with your future sale!

hakita · 03-19-2009, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by bmugford

Well, you can't blame .NET
I figure Cats.net is worth about 1/2 Dogs.net

LOL, in facts, their is a bit more search on dogs that cats.
So for me Cats.net is 3/4 of Dogs.net
And i would have appraised cats.net much higher than 7K : http://domainappraisal.pro/estimatio...maine=cats.net
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=567578

To me, 7K$ could have been the price for Catsupplies.net 1 or 2 year ago

03-18-2009, 03:30 PM	#76 (permalink)
labrocca NamePros Expert Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 6,268 Follow @supportforums	Maybe that's why he has a bad taste in his mouth. That kind of loss would certainly make me a little bitter about .net's. __________________ :$: Support Forum <-- My latest endeavor.:loveyou: Debate Forums Free Online Sudoku My vBum Blog

03-18-2009, 05:39 PM	#85 (permalink)
labrocca NamePros Expert Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 6,268 Follow @supportforums	hmm...great discussions my friends...best here in a while imho. I think the main difference with Skincare.net is that it's a product while cats.net are pets. In truth catfood.net might be worth more. Also skin care products are something that would make for good internet sales. I doubt cats sell over the internet. Site construction and maitenance can be difficult. There is no doubt about that. But the goal is to earn as much as possible and if that means development then it should be at least a consideration. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=567578 My personal view is that the net extension carries a 5-25% value of it's dotcom counterpart...probably more like 5-10% on average though. nets imho are the first preference for a non dotcom alternative. ORG is fine too but it's imho more limited. __________________ :$: Support Forum <-- My latest endeavor.:loveyou: Debate Forums Free Online Sudoku My vBum Blog

03-19-2009, 03:41 AM	#94 (permalink)
owntype Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,127	Snoop, you should have sent me a PM before the auction ends. I sent you the highest offer $15k for cats and dogs last year. We were going to top it since my partner is a perfect end user. If the buyer didn't pay, let me know your best bin for the pair. Thanks. Anyway, good luck with your future sale! __________________ A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z . C O M

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03-18-2009, 07:57 PM	#90 (permalink)
mjbenterprises NamePros Regular Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 737	I'm not sure about sales percentages, or anything like that.. All I know is that .net leaves a bad taste in my mouth.. It's really lost a lot of respect in the last couple of years.. I think .org has overtaken .net in the respect area.. Sometimes, when I am checking domains, I find the .org taken , with the .net still avail...This happens in many niches, not just the "traditonal" .org niches...

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