MysteryDomainAuction ... check this - Page 3

j0hnyl · 01-05-2009, 11:58 AM

I'm actually pretty disappointed to see the cancellation of this website, because I was genuinely interested in seeing what would happen when it played it self out. In my opinion I think the creator of the site was on target to at least break even considering how much publicity the site has gotten in such a short time. For example, I subscribe to a goolge alert feed for the term "domain" and in the last couple of days a good chunk of the headlines I saw there were either announcements or criticisms of this web site. This kind of publicity goes a really long way and that's what makes these sites succeed. Just my $0.02

James B · 01-05-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

I'm actually pretty disappointed to see the cancellation of this website, because I was genuinely interested in seeing what would happen when it played it self out.

My thoughts as well. I guess now we get to see what the failure does to his reputation. I think its a real shame it has ended this way.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/547498-mysterydomainauction-check-this.html

James

Coopey · 01-05-2009, 12:09 PM

I wonder if the mystery domain is going to be revealed...

***Domainate.com*** · 01-05-2009, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by James B

My thoughts as well. I guess now we get to see what the failure does to his reputation. I think its a real shame it has ended this way.

James

The hit on his reputation was the idea in the first place...he actually might save a lot of it by cancelling now vs. letting it pan out...I for one commend him for doing it because he had no idea the sh*tstorm possibly waiting for him if he let it pan out. I never touched on this particular issue in any of my posts but as others were mentioning, he didn't have much in place for "tie" bids, and given the outcome of the auction would likely be determined by what would happened in the event of tie bids, that was not very good foresight on his part. If 30 people tie-bidded on your $10,000 (name) and the winner can in any way be linked to even being the slightest acquaintance of yours, how would you like to have 29 $10,000 lawsuits on your hands?

I'm not saying he's a bad guy...my thoughts on the auction itself were in no way personal feelings towards him as I honestly don't really know him. It doesn't always take bad people to do wrong things, and what he was doing, regardless of legality, wasn't a good thing to do. I wouldn't have been as harsh on him having the idea if it wasn't laid out so self serving - it was evident his intent was to try and essentially buy $1 million with $10,000 using all-pay auction and mystery domain mixed with link buying to sugar coat it. The irony is if it was one of those 3 things on its own (all-pay auctioning $10,000, auctioning a mystery domain, or just having a paid link farm), he would have been ridiculed 10 times as much, but combining the 3 apparently made it not as clear-cut bad or schemish to some of you.

Anyways, I actually applaud him somewhat for taking the more difficult but correct path at this point and calling it off. I honestly didn't expect that and it's good to see. I meant what I said in hoping the auction wouldn't be a "success", because that would be the least damaging TO him. The MOST damaging would have been if it did work out and he had no immediate repercussions from it and decided to attempt to make it a business model, because he'd be digging himself deeper and deeper into lord knows what lawsuits/legal troubles or possibly. Heck, look enough lately at the news at crazy people that kill even their family members over a couple thousand dollars.

abcproductions · 01-05-2009, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by NameTrader.com

Anyways, I actually applaud him somewhat for taking the more difficult but correct path at this point and calling it off.

this was the cop out path not the correct path. he ended this thing because it was going to be a financial flop for him.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=547498

he says "Following legal advice obtained as a result of concerns raised by fellow domaining bloggers and some NamePros members about the legality of an all-pay auction in the US where this site is hosted in addition to consideration of the problems I may face at the end of the auction in case more than one person bids with the same amount which is very likely I have decided that the best option is to cancel this auction effective immediately."

this statement is a joke.

he thought he had a brilliant idea (just like many others in this thread) but those of us who could see through it, knew better.

Earthian · 01-05-2009, 03:50 PM

imo it is his project so it is his right to do what he wants with it

cancelling the project (with refunds) after considering the possible legal issues is one of these options

2 points though ...

1. I still think it was/is a pretty nice idea (albeit really needing some changes in some parts) ... even while having the gambling element that it had

2. I hope he got some solid legal advice before cancelling because after searching a little on the net I did not find all-pay auctions as being illegal

only Steve/NameTrader said "... Swoopo, which believe it or not is not allowed in all US states (they don't operate in all US states and the only reason why not would be it being illegal in those states)" , which I don't know where he found from since I could not find any reference online

in the ToS of Swoopo it says that "use of the website shall be governed by the laws of the United States of America and the State of California" ... and several references online mention that it operates legally in the US since Sep2008

I am not necessarily endorsing all-pay auctions ... it can be tricky for people who are not experienced with the net or online purchases/auctions ... but if the participants understand the process it can be money-saving and/or exciting

lastly , I also kind of think that ...

under the large criticism that severely hindered popularity and sales ...

his cancellation of the project was a way to ease all the criticism as well as to avoid the possible financial loss , which would have been very probable (with the current negativity and the current auction terms)

but since he only knows the site's traffic numbers as well as the pertinent legal advice , probably only he knows the exact reasons for the cancellation

***Domainate.com*** · 01-05-2009, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Earthian

only Steve/NameTrader said "... Swoopo, which believe it or not is not allowed in all US states (they don't operate in all US states and the only reason why not would be it being illegal in those states)" , which I don't know where he found from since I could not find any reference online

Unless something changed in 3 months, this was a question posted on Yahoo Answers: "I know that Swoopo is not likely to get you a good deal - more likely to waste a lot of money on bids - but I'm curious as to why they won't even let people from the following places register: Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Maryland, Montana, Tennessee, Vermont, Puerto Rico and protectorates.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=547498

What are they doing that runs afoul of the law in these states? Is it something to do with internet gambling?"

abcproductions · 01-05-2009, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Earthian

I still think it was/is a pretty nice idea (albeit really needing some changes in some parts)

if you haven't learned that this was not a good idea by watching what has happened first hand, you're not going to learn. whether some aspects were illegal is not the point. this was going to be a financial flop from the start. PERIOD. the cancellation was a cowardly, cop out. nothing more. i don't know the guy running the thing but he must have a circle of ignorant friends. if he was a friend of mine and he told me he was launching this idea, i would have told him specifically why it would most likely fail and i would have told him he was foolish for going forward.

Brujah · 01-05-2009, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by abcproductions

whether some aspects were illegal is not the point.

It's very much the point.

Quote:

the cancellation was a cowardly, cop out. nothing more.

Risk management. Maybe his legal counsel advised him it might be legal but just wasn't a good idea. Maybe the advice was that it wasn't legal enough. In any case, keeping it going just so YOU didn't think it was cowardly would have been the dumbest thing ever.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=547498

The rest of your post highlights several reasons why you will probably continue to fail where others succeed.

Earthian · 01-05-2009, 04:56 PM

Steve - I found the Yahoo question (after searching a minute ago with the new data you posted) and I don't think that not allowing registration from 12 out of 50 US states means that it is illegal in general (moreover , it does not necessarily mean that it is illegal in those states , there could be other issues)

Moniker escrow is not allowed in California but that does not mean they are illegal

(again , I don't necessarily endorse all-pay auctions , they surely need caution)

abcproductions - everyone is entitled to their own opinion ...

I think that ...

if it had a 1-day premature ending clause (after it got some initail traction) , so as to cause frequent early bidding (in hopes of "sniping" the domain/$10,000 early for just $5 , $10 , $20 , etc)

if it had a refund for same-amount-bids so as not to deter bidders (because of non-appearance of already paid links that were prior to the last same-amount-bid)
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=547498

if it was thoroughly searched beforehand so as to comply legally with the jurisdictions it would apply to

if it had some more intersting stuff on the homepage so that visitors would return more frequently (eg. a small picture next to the link , a small chat , some kind of small online game played between guests/visitors , some articles , etc)

if it was properly promoted (it had some fairly good promotion but also the rather "pompous" domaining revolution assertment that turn many domainers against it)

... it might have a chance to be a nice project and possibly quite profitable

and before start saying why don't you do it then ... I am more a domainer than a developer ... also I would not like to "copy"/"copy-improve" on an idea that it is not mine , that is innovative/appealing only the first time (think milliondollarhomepage copycats) and that attracted so much negativity the first time around

GF · 01-05-2009, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by S~

I wonder if the mystery domain is going to be revealed...
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=547498

He said that he won't be commenting any further on the whole thing.

He'll recover from this just fine, IMHO. To create a "buzz" takes some risk, and I commend him for having the balls to take a risk and admitting when something doesn't work.

***mwzd*** · 01-05-2009, 07:02 PM

All pay auctions in themselves are fraudulent. Many people paying so that the seller can get more than the value and one buyer gets the item cheaper is a con, just not projected as such.

Which is why those who do such auctions like swoopo/dubli etc use the entertainment angle. Its not entertaining to lose money and not get anything. Its stupid.

Lotteries work on the same principle, why people call them stupid tax.

**-Nick-** · 01-05-2009, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by S~

I wonder if the mystery domain is going to be revealed...
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=547498

Yes my guess is that it was MysteryDomainAuction.com

So the person who would get it would have to run the site for next 5 years. If he doesn't keeps it online then it is his problem.

Earthian · 01-05-2009, 07:42 PM

Samit - even though I do think these alternative auction platforms need cautiousness , I don't think they are fraudulent ... they just try to find new ways to sell products and new ways to make money ... they are usually clear about their terms

I think that most people trying-out/buying-at those sites are people who have read the rules and just try to grab a bargain

eg. with swoopo , they might be "funding" with a couple non-winning bids the purchase of an item at a low price for another bidder who won the item , but I am sure they calculate all these expenses towards a future win at a very low price ... they might spend $10-$20 on 20-30 lost bids but when they finally win something for $50-$100 less than retail then they will have made a profit

you said ... "people call them stupid tax" (and not for example "that's why it is a stupid tax") ... does that mean that you do consider lotteries as "stupid tax" like some people do or that you don't ?

Nick - lol , many people must have thought the same thing (especially if the domain had huge traffic after having passed the $1,000,000 mark) ... I also thought at some point that that might be the name

I don't think he will reveal the name , many people would slam-it/cut-it-apart even if it is a rather good domain
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=547498

finster · 01-07-2009, 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by -REECE-

Being real here... If bids get to $147 (what John needs for his million), that'd mean 14700 bids have been placed. I think it's a bit of an exaggeration to suggest that people have any chance of winning. Lotteries are a stupid tax because only fools buy them actually thinking they're going to win.

Assuming the auction had been continued to the end someone would have won. The chance of being that person is difficult to calculate and would depend largely on the actions of others, their number and skill among other factors.

I had considered buying a bid just for link. If that 1st link proved successful then I would have bought more. So there were certainly other considerations to be had.

As far as the usual pooled state lotteries go I often buy tickets, whole blocks of tickets, when and only when the expected rate of return becomes something greater than my investment. Certainly its an unlikely event but if I'm buying into a chance to win a large prize pool and the value of that is 1.10 per 1 played then I'm pretty happy taking the chance with a couple hundred dollar wheel. Yes it would be smarter of everyone concerned if no one ever played but once enough do then opportunities present themselves.
Perhaps buying into the LLLL.com buyout can be seen in a similar light? No?

Quote:

I don't think anyone plays the lottery hoping notto win. If someone wanted to donate to charity, they'd donate it to a charity, not to some likely corrupt lottery organization.

You mean like the State of California (or WA/WI/NY/etc?)

Originally Posted by NameTrader.com

Unless something changed in 3 months, this was a question posted on Yahoo Answers: "I know that Swoopo is not likely to get you a good deal - more likely to waste a lot of money on bids - but I'm curious as to why they won't even let people from the following places register: Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Maryland, Montana, Tennessee, Vermont, Puerto Rico and protectorates.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=547498

What are they doing that runs afoul of the law in these states? Is it something to do with internet gambling?"

The disallowed list is right there on the signup form. Its funny too that Kentucky isint one of the prohibited states considering the recent BS that state recently pulled against gambling-related domains.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=547498

I must say that I've been fascinated with Swoopo for several days now. I'm not 100% convinced they play fair by their own rules though. I'd have to really spend the time to observe, maybe set up a recorder or something, but I thought I've seen several instance where many minutes were added to an auction and not just a few seconds. Also theres no way to verify the legitimacy of any of the bidders. Perhaps they could throw a half dozen shills in the game and keep things wild.

When I was a much younger man I worked Carny for a couple of months running "games of skill" and that was quite an education. I never worked in the "alibi joints", never progressed that far (i worked "add 'em ups") but loved to watch them. The guys running those could always find a reason why someone failed to win the prize and could always keep them playing. Dudes trying to win big stuffed animals for the girlfriends were the best marks. "Hey Romeo" was the cry. The mark would sometimes spend 50 bucks to win a toy worth 5. And if a guy did spend that much the boss would usually find a way to let them get their prize in the end. It didnt pay to have a bunch of really pissed off dudes running around.

In the begining my friend who got me into it explained it simply that everyone wants something for nothing but what they all get is nothing for something. The tools, the methods, the names and rewards all may change but some things never do.

01-05-2009, 12:09 PM	#53 (permalink)
Coopey Member of the Year Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London or Casnewydd Posts: 1,777	I wonder if the mystery domain is going to be revealed... __________________ For sale on NP: ISA.tv \| 5.gy I was formerly S~, but now I have a proper name. I kept the scone avatar to reassure you. Generate a random password (Want to buy the script/site? PM me)

01-05-2009, 03:50 PM	THREAD STARTER #56 (permalink)
Earthian NamePros Regular Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Earth Posts: 919	imo it is his project so it is his right to do what he wants with it cancelling the project (with refunds) after considering the possible legal issues is one of these options 2 points though ... 1. I still think it was/is a pretty nice idea (albeit really needing some changes in some parts) ... even while having the gambling element that it had 2. I hope he got some solid legal advice before cancelling because after searching a little on the net I did not find all-pay auctions as being illegal only Steve/NameTrader said "... Swoopo, which believe it or not is not allowed in all US states (they don't operate in all US states and the only reason why not would be it being illegal in those states)" , which I don't know where he found from since I could not find any reference online in the ToS of Swoopo it says that "use of the website shall be governed by the laws of the United States of America and the State of California" ... and several references online mention that it operates legally in the US since Sep2008 I am not necessarily endorsing all-pay auctions ... it can be tricky for people who are not experienced with the net or online purchases/auctions ... but if the participants understand the process it can be money-saving and/or exciting lastly , I also kind of think that ... under the large criticism that severely hindered popularity and sales ... his cancellation of the project was a way to ease all the criticism as well as to avoid the possible financial loss , which would have been very probable (with the current negativity and the current auction terms) but since he only knows the site's traffic numbers as well as the pertinent legal advice , probably only he knows the exact reasons for the cancellation __________________ ██__________██ ██____e-vj____██ ██__________██

01-05-2009, 04:56 PM	THREAD STARTER #60 (permalink)
Earthian NamePros Regular Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Earth Posts: 919	Steve - I found the Yahoo question (after searching a minute ago with the new data you posted) and I don't think that not allowing registration from 12 out of 50 US states means that it is illegal in general (moreover , it does not necessarily mean that it is illegal in those states , there could be other issues) Moniker escrow is not allowed in California but that does not mean they are illegal (again , I don't necessarily endorse all-pay auctions , they surely need caution) abcproductions - everyone is entitled to their own opinion ... I think that ... if it had a 1-day premature ending clause (after it got some initail traction) , so as to cause frequent early bidding (in hopes of "sniping" the domain/$10,000 early for just $5 , $10 , $20 , etc) if it had a refund for same-amount-bids so as not to deter bidders (because of non-appearance of already paid links that were prior to the last same-amount-bid) ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=547498 if it was thoroughly searched beforehand so as to comply legally with the jurisdictions it would apply to if it had some more intersting stuff on the homepage so that visitors would return more frequently (eg. a small picture next to the link , a small chat , some kind of small online game played between guests/visitors , some articles , etc) if it was properly promoted (it had some fairly good promotion but also the rather "pompous" domaining revolution assertment that turn many domainers against it) ... it might have a chance to be a nice project and possibly quite profitable and before start saying why don't you do it then ... I am more a domainer than a developer ... also I would not like to "copy"/"copy-improve" on an idea that it is not mine , that is innovative/appealing only the first time (think milliondollarhomepage copycats) and that attracted so much negativity the first time around __________________ ██__________██ ██____e-vj____██ ██__________██

01-05-2009, 07:02 PM	#62 (permalink)
*mwzd* Extension Agnostic Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Mumbai, India Posts: 7,933 Follow @mwzd	All pay auctions in themselves are fraudulent. Many people paying so that the seller can get more than the value and one buyer gets the item cheaper is a con, just not projected as such. Which is why those who do such auctions like swoopo/dubli etc use the entertainment angle. Its not entertaining to lose money and not get anything. Its stupid. Lotteries work on the same principle, why people call them stupid tax. __________________ Domain Names for Sale \| High Value Domain Brokerage \| Domain Consulting \| Domain Blog Professional WebSite Development \| Bulk Pro MiniSite Development

01-05-2009, 07:42 PM	THREAD STARTER #64 (permalink)
Earthian NamePros Regular Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Earth Posts: 919	Samit - even though I do think these alternative auction platforms need cautiousness , I don't think they are fraudulent ... they just try to find new ways to sell products and new ways to make money ... they are usually clear about their terms I think that most people trying-out/buying-at those sites are people who have read the rules and just try to grab a bargain eg. with swoopo , they might be "funding" with a couple non-winning bids the purchase of an item at a low price for another bidder who won the item , but I am sure they calculate all these expenses towards a future win at a very low price ... they might spend $10-$20 on 20-30 lost bids but when they finally win something for $50-$100 less than retail then they will have made a profit you said ... "people call them stupid tax" (and not for example "that's why it is a stupid tax") ... does that mean that you do consider lotteries as "stupid tax" like some people do or that you don't ? Nick - lol , many people must have thought the same thing (especially if the domain had huge traffic after having passed the $1,000,000 mark) ... I also thought at some point that that might be the name I don't think he will reveal the name , many people would slam-it/cut-it-apart even if it is a rather good domain ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=547498 __________________ ██__________██ ██____e-vj____██ ██__________██

01-05-2009, 11:58 AM	#51 (permalink)
j0hnyl NamePros Regular Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 372	I'm actually pretty disappointed to see the cancellation of this website, because I was genuinely interested in seeing what would happen when it played it self out. In my opinion I think the creator of the site was on target to at least break even considering how much publicity the site has gotten in such a short time. For example, I subscribe to a goolge alert feed for the term "domain" and in the last couple of days a good chunk of the headlines I saw there were either announcements or criticisms of this web site. This kind of publicity goes a really long way and that's what makes these sites succeed. Just my $0.02

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