In my humble opinion Ron does an A-One job on the journal. Kudos and maintain your high standards.
As to premium price reporting, the fact of the matter to me is that the sale was made, the money and domain name exchanged hands, and what the renewal price is becomes the sole business of the new owner and becomes our business only when the name may be up for sale again if it does.
My point is many times both the buyer and sell want the information out there. When the seller and buyer want it disclosed it can and should be . If one does not, it should not be disclosed (just like sales in general) and in those cases, it can be listed as "NA". If it is not a premium at all, that can and should be known too and listed as "NP" or Non Premium.
This is key in people getting a more accurate picture of the value of .tv.
Look at it this way. Many xxxx premium domains are reged weekly at Enom. Nobody reports this anywhere, yet that reflects the value of the .tv marketplace. I am not suggesting those get reported, however, when a buyer and seller agree to submit that info to Ron, it does a disservice to not report it IMO.
For starters, the premium registation fees are not now nor have they ever been provided directly to us by any of the venues and/or private parties who report sales to us.
But that is really a moot point anyhow, because registration fees are not part of the information we track. Our report is limited to what a buyer pays the seller for a domain name, period. In the case of .tv, the buyer may or may not have to pay the registry a higher than normal fee (that is between them and the registry.) The other party to the transaction, the seller, does not get any of the registration fee, whatever it might be - so the price reported is the price the buyer received for selling the domain name - that is the only metric we have tracked from day one (and I don't think there is anything "misleading" about that metric) .
There is a deeper story behind every domain sale, not just .tv sales - but with the thousands of sales we report every week, we do not have the time to go into more details on all of those back stories (or even all of the back stories within a single extension, like .tv).
If someone has a special interest in .tv and wants to learn more they are free to look up any applicable registration fee for names reported sold (just as they can research additional information on any other sale reported in any extension). It is not something I have time to do for them and still get the many other elements of our publication out in a timely manner.
Doing the weekly sales report already takes up an inordinate percentage of my 7-day 100-hour work week. At no charge, people have access to sale prices for thousands of domains every single week (a service they go not get anywhere else at any price). They can use that information as a jumping off point to do any additional research of their own that they might wish to do.
There is probably a business opportunity there that someone could pursue if they wished to do so - offering more detailed information on .tv sales to afficianados of the extension at a price (or through an advertiser supported platform if they think they can line up advertisers). It is not a venture I have time to take on as my plate is currently beyond full.
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Thanks for responding to my question Ron. I understand what you are saying regarding your work load and the opportunity for some other party to publish the premium sale info. Yes, technically a premium fee is a registration fee but you and I both in terms of .TV it is a special case where the premium amount in many cases is well more important and reflective of the investment and cost then the "sale" amount and the goal of the marketplace is to reflect an accurate view of the market. To dismiss it all together with the rationale that only the sale price matters because the other fee is a registration cost does a disservice to both readers and the value of the information you are providing your readers IMO.
If you will not provide the info in cases where it is directly provided to you at the least I think a (one time) small asterisks regarding .TV domains can be added in the country code domains section that lets people know that often times .TV domains have an added premium registration cost in additions to the sale price (or some sure statement). That at least put the info out there so people understand that.
Ron many people come to your site as newbies and look at those charts and have no clue .tv premiums even exist and just think when they see that someone buys an xxxx.tv for $,1,500 that like .com, that means the per year fee to own the name is a basic registration cost, therefore a generic .tv name they see is valued at $1,500, while in reality the buyer is also paying 1K per year on top of that.
Now I understand that is is not your duty and responsibility to provide this information, however I would argue it is your duty and responsible to make readers aware that the premium system exits and effects the .tv metrics of the .tv aftermarket. I know you pride yourself on being a source for those coming into the industry and they are coming at a rapid pace. To say that premiums are just a registration cost and have no place in the domain sales section is misleading and I think stating this once and even linking to a site enom.tv, which provides interested readers a chance learn about the premium system (like sedo now does) is an a way that furthers educates your readers.
You yourself said " They can use that information as a jumping off point to do any additional research of their own that they might wish to do." Many that read your publication do not even know the premium system exits when they read the domain sales chart so how can they do the research? Can't you at least point them in the right direction? At the end of that day isn't that part of your responsibility you value most?
Last edited by poodleman : 05-04-2008 at 12:31 PM.
No it isn't. As I said in my previous post, every domain sale has a deeper back story, not just .tv. Once you go down the road you are suggesting, the sales report would become a tar pit of headaches that no one in their right mind would try to compile.
Just one of many examples - DomainCapital finances a lot of high value purchases. They typically charge 15% interest. So if someone finances a $100,000 purchase through them, they actually pay $115,000 on a 12-mointh plan. The seller only got $100,000 but the buyer obviously places an even higher value on the name because he also willing to pay $15,000 in finance charges (just like some .tv buyers might pay $15,000 as a premium registration fee). So, by your logic I would have to also track which sales DomainCapital financed and have an asterisk on every DC financed sale because otherwise it is not a true representation of the value of those domains. That isn't going to happen
As for a one-time statement about the .tv premium system, that would do little to no good in teaching newcomers anything, as that one column would be replaced within a week and few would see the information once its goes to the archive. Newcomers have a responsibility to do some research on their own to familiarize themselves with basics like this. Teaching newcomers everything there is to know about .tv or any other extension, special circumstances surrounding sales, etc, is far beyond the scope of what the sales column is about.
If someone else wants to try doing a report that covers the amount of ground we cover and also try to go into this kind of detail, be my guest. From what I've read here, it sounds like there's absolutely nothing to it. Forum debates tend to go on forever and resolve nothing, so having made my position clear, that's all I will have to say on the subject.
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You do a great job... and most of us here think what info you have on your site is good enough. I think most of us just like to use it for a reference point, not actually digging into each and every sale etc...
Would be a bit over whelming to report .tv yearly fees and your other part was also valid on loans for high profile names.
Its a stepping stone for a conclusion on sales with variables at times.
The thing that bothers me the most is when .tv high profile names on sedo and they don't disclose the yearly fees. That's more of an issue then having a well respected domain publication and ron to do all the leg work and at the same time offer free reading and eyeballs to read.
One thing ron in regards to poodleman remarks is having a 2 sentence disclaimer saying certain .tv have yearly fees and use ahead.tv for yearly fees. That could be an option and won't consume your time in each sale.
Cheers ron and keep up the great work you do. 100 hours a week. Wow! Take a vacation lol
I addressed this in my last post, but that part was added in an edit so you probably missed it - wanted to point that out so people will know you didn't see that had been addressed just before your post.
Ahead.tv's results are not always accurate. I own a premium .tv (as well as several non-premiums, so it is obvious I also like .tv) and when I enter that domain in their renewal fee search it incorrectly states "normal reg fee". I wish that were the case, but having just renewed the name this week the search result is not true. Now, I really do have to get back to work (otherwise I will never be able to keep paying these renewal fees).
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