[-Nick-]

Originally Posted by Red Rock

Everyone, THIS IS NOT SCHILL BIDDING! You Bid, You Win, You Buy! Done!

Just imagine if someone doesn't buys it then?

Can you force him to buy it? I don't think so.

What if sales falls through? Will it not involve Namepros in it?

You can't say You Bid, You win, You buy. Yes they are the rules. But if everyone on the planet used to follow the rules then there was no need for policing the stuff.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/461518-how-about-sticky-thread-send-sedo.html

Just imagine if You bid, You win, You buy stuff goes to something like, You Bid, You win, You run.

Who will be there to take all the responsibility except Namepros.

[Red Rock]

Originally Posted by -Nick-

Just imagine if someone doesn't buys it then? Can you force him to buy it? I don't think so. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518 What if sales falls through? Will it not involve Namepros in it? You can't say You Bid, You win, You buy. Yes they are the rules. But if everyone on the planet used to follow the rules then there was no need for policing the stuff. Just imagine if You bid, You win, You buy stuff goes to something like, You Bid, You win, You run. Who will be there to take all the responsibility except Namepros.

Nick,
You are a great guy,
but I have no idea what you are talking about?

Are you taking the Negative approach, also?

C'mon,
We may as well stop EVERY auction here, also!
Just in case people dont fulfill their obligation of the
SIMPLE rules...Bid, Buy, Push, Done!!

Nick...Shi! happens...Look at OUR transaction (My winning auction of YOUR 3 - LLLL's, that somehow had a huge problem getting out of your registrar).

So, dont tell me everything here is Perfect, but as soon as we enter SEDO, everyone is going to turn into some Misfit, and start screwing everyone else.

Nothing will be different.
Things will go well, and some may not.
Thats the real world.
But dont shoot the idea down because you have lost faith in NPers.

[-Nick-]

I am not saying $hit doesn't happens.

I am just saying that if shit happens and it happens from Namepros side then that is the issue.

I would have loved all of the members to have great exposure and great sales. In fact I am also a domainer. Right.

But my only concern is that if and only if the sales fall through then it will not be limited to a member but it will look like Namepros is backing up this type of ideas.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518

An example thread : http://www.namepros.com/tv-marketpla...d+sedo+auction

Why can't we just stick to it? It is doing the same thing. But here NP is not responsible if the sales are ruined.

I am not against it not in favor of it. I am just in favor of Namepros itself. I hope you will like this opinion and see that it does have a chance... a slightest chance that Namepros will be involved and it will be bad for it.

Other then that I am happy. In fact I also own many domain names. So I am just giving my opinions on unbiased grounds.

[Red Rock]

Originally Posted by -Nick-

But my only concern is that if and only if the sales fall through then it will not be limited to a member but it will look like Namepros is backing up this type of ideas. But here NP is not responsible if the sales are ruined. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518

Nick,

A Domainers Membership at Sedo is a VERY important tool.
Do you really think anybody would want to lose THAT privilege?
I think not.

and Nick...I'm glad you're Happy!

[-Nick-]

They will loose their membership on sedo or not that I don't know.

There will be members who will loose their memberships. That is for sure.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518

Now no one cares if they loose their memberships on daily basis or not. Because that is going on from many years. And it is sedo's decision and their playground. So they can do whatever they like to do with their members.

I was just saying that we would not like our [That is Namepros] members to get going for something like this.

I know what happened to our auction deal. But I refunded you 100% back and also sent you the buyout amount. But is everyone same? Maybe not. Some people do give higher value to the dollars then to their rules in their life. And we can't know if there will be some getting into this.

This will create mess for our good members. Lets say like you.

Someone bids $60 on your name and then backs out right now. Then again someone bids $60 on your name and backs out again. I think sedo will not only close their accounts but also yours. Because they will know that you are the one who is telling them to start the auctions and if some other person is not outbidding the initial bidder then the sales are falling through.

So risk is not only to the bidders account but also to the sellers account. Because they can see a trend I think.

Whatever the outcome maybe from this. I am just worried about Namepros and newbies. I don't want any hurt people lying around here and there. It is in my duty to protect and think positively for Namepros and its members. I have no personal contacts with members. But well if I am a member here and if there is something I can do good for people on here. I am always ready to do that. If the outcome of this discussion is going to be good for all the people and for Namepros itself as an entity then there are no problems. But we can't take chances. So even if you are on Positive side then also I would like to welcome your opinions from negative side. We can check the pros and cons. If there is much which is being risked with this then I would say my opinion is "NO" and the major thing is there should not be a slightest risk for the NAMEPROS as whole in this new system. What do you think?

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by Reece

People can believe what they want... Shill bidding will continue to happen anyway with or without this thread. Look how many LLL.com and LL.com sales fall through. In the case of LL.coms, it's above 50%. Why? I'm not going to start naming names, but there are certainly a few good reasons that come to mind... ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518 Existing owners of similar names trying to inflate prices by placing bids they have no intent on honoring... Sellers wanting to see how much they can milk out of an interested buyer... As I said before, there really is no transparency and anyone who really thinks there exists even a sliver of it is looking at the domain industry through some very rosey pink "optimist" glasses.

No rose glasses here. I know it goes on but........... Namepros IMO doesn;t need to be seen as actively supporting it.

[Red Rock]

Originally Posted by -Nick-

What do you think?

I think you are very concerned with the reputation of NamePros.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518
That is a great, proud, and loyal characteristic.
I have alot of pride myself, being a member of this community.
I would hate to see NP's image tarnished in any way.
We open our minds, and think of the pros and cons, fine.
But lets not stifle an idea, before it is even started.

I am very optimistic.
I have a feeling MANY members will do a great job in keeping this idea alive and well.
There will be a couple of real life flaws, I'm sure.
But there will be alot MORE success stories.

[-Nick-]

Originally Posted by Red Rock

I think you are very concerned with the reputation of NamePros.

Yes friend the reputation of Namepros is much more to be concerned of then any profits that might come out of the system for domainers or NP members.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518

We can't let the reputation go down the drain for monetary gains.

[Red Rock]

Nick,
You spent your NP$ on writing a nice POSITIVE message,
above your avatar.

"I'll Do It".
That's Nice.

But yet,
the only examples of a good faith system you give are purely negative....

Originally Posted by -Nick-

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518 Someone bids $60 on your name and then backs out right now. Then again someone bids $60 on your name and backs out again. I think sedo will not only close their accounts but also yours. Because they will know that you are the one who is telling them to start the auctions and if some other person is not outbidding the initial bidder then the sales are falling through.

Originally Posted by -Nick-

We can't let the reputation go down the drain for monetary gains.

Is that going to happen?
Doubtful.
Why not a positive story with a happy ending???
LOL

[-Nick-]

Because if there are positive things only attached to this then there wouldn't even had been a debate in first place. The debate is all about that slightest and smallest negative things attached to it and the possibilities of negative stuff coming out of it.

Originally Posted by Red Rock

Nick, You spent your NP$ on writing a nice POSITIVE message, above your avatar. "I'll Do It". That's Nice.

hehehe. No Its free to change for me.

That I'll Do it message is for our members who need help.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518

If there is someone who needs help in doing anything. Then yes I will do it

[Red Rock]

Originally Posted by -Nick-

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518 That I'll Do it message is for our members who need help. If there is someone who needs help in doing anything. Then yes I will do it

Sweet!
Can you get our 2 threads back???

[-Nick-]

I can't. It is locked up tight.

As for this system also I don't mind helping in favor of it or against it.

All the concern was for NamePros as whole.

But still the final outcome will not depend on your or my ideas. It will be a combined opinions and ideas of all of us. And if NamePros does goes ahead with this then someone will be taking its responsibility I think But that is the thing to convince the staff.

[Red Rock]

Well,
I guess we will just have to wait and see.
I really hope everyone doesnt only think of the WORST case scenarios.
There IS alot of good that can come out of this!

[timphelan]

Again, lets remember that Sedo is now already allowing sellers to say in their description area of current running auctions the same thing we are proposing here:

"I have these other domains, which if you make a $60 ( or whatever price ) bid on, I will send to auction."

That's it.

Somehow by Namepros allowing the same thing Sedo already is, it will tarnish Namepros???

[-Nick-]

Originally Posted by timphelan

Again, lets remember that Sedo is now already allowing sellers to say in their description area of current running auctions the same thing we are proposing here: ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518 "I have these other domains, which if you make a $60 ( or whatever price ) bid on, I will send to auction." That's it. Somehow by Namepros allowing the same thing Sedo already is, it will tarnish Namepros???

Then why don't we just stick to this type of threads. http://www.namepros.com/tv-marketpla...d+sedo+auction

Thanks.

[timphelan]

For convienance sake mostly. Just like why we have a special section for short domains, or auctions. The interest in this would justify not only having it's own thread, but it's own section.

We're talking about Sedo here. Doesn't it deserve it's own thread at least?

I knew there was an interest in this before Reece posted his thread. There are many Namepros members who have an interest in an easier way of getting their domains seen, no matter where it is. It just happens that Sedo is one of the best places to get your name seen.

So, what's wrong with making it easier for members to get their domains seen? In an open honest way? With guidelines?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518

Originally Posted by -Nick-

Then why don't we just stick to this type of threads. http://www.namepros.com/tv-marketpla...d+sedo+auction Thanks.

[-Nick-]

I don't like Namepros being a part of it. <<< This is my opinion

Members can do it themselves on their personal basis as suggested in that thread example I gave.

It is similar to what this idea is suggesting. So what is trouble with posting your names in your thread like that.

My idea is not to ruin someone's dreams or members plans. My idea is to keep Namepros out of it
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518

Why to keep it out of it? Well I have doubts and I hate letting Namepros getting involved into doubtful stuff. That is why I am also posting my opinions on it.

Now nothing can convince anyone that there will be no problems at all. So that is where this whole matter is standing right now.

But as I said earlier. It is opinions. I am not right. No one is right. It is discussion and maybe some good output will come out of this all

And I know it will be a good decision

[RJ]

Originally Posted by timphelan

So, what's wrong with making it easier for members to get their domains seen? In an open honest way? With guidelines?

Obviously you can already list your domains for sale in the marketplace here with a link to your Sedo offer page. You can also state that a minimum offer will send it to a Sedo auction. What I am hearing is a demand for the convenience of a single thread or forum where these types of offers can be found easier. That in itself isn't wrong.

I think the concern from some of the staff is that an organized effort to launch Sedo auctions would encourage illegitimate bids, or that sellers would not be genuinely prepared to sell their domain at the minimum bid price.

As timphelan mentioned, this would have to be done in an open and honest manner, with guidelines of what is acceptable. Perhaps we could talk about some of those guidelines here and find some middle ground for us to work with.

Also waiting to hear back from Sedo to see if they have an opinion either way on the matter.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518

RJ

[-Nick-]

Originally Posted by -RJ-

Also waiting to hear back from Sedo to see if they have an opinion either way on the matter. RJ

Definitely agreed Seeing their stand on this whole thing. And then also keeping our NamePros Experience Intact.... we can come up with nice rules and guidelines.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518

The best guideline I can think of is. That whoever messes up the system. He or she will be obviously be banned from sedo. But he or she can also face a lifetime Ban from NamePros. For making Namepros the grounds for their illegal actions. I think it justifies the actions.

This can be easily done. All those names that are posted for sending to auctions should be checked after sometime and then someone needs to keep tabs of which deals went through and which didn't. We can use the resolved action that is already built in into our forums. It might also involve working with sedo representatives. But maybe.

[wot]

Originally Posted by -RJ-

I think the concern from some of the staff is that an organized effort to launch Sedo auctions would encourage illegitimate bids, or that sellers would not be genuinely prepared to sell their domain at the minimum bid price. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518 RJ

I think that it is a racing certainty that this will happen in some cases irrespective of the penalties for infringement of the rules that may be in place. We know there are bad un's on the forum.

It would be a minor/major nightmare for the mods , but it may work - much stranger things have happened.

Sedo- they will make more money and their general monitoring of auctions/bids/bidders has left a lot to be desired up to date so I think they will go for it as little will change from their perspective.

[Michelle]

I just think its gonna be a living nightmare for staff and admin once the complaints of no sales start comming in.. .Which they will IMO

The whole thing just has a unethical feel to it... Maybe just me

[Damion]

Originally Posted by -Nick-

Just imagine if someone doesn't buys it then? ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518 Can you force him to buy it? I don't think so. What if sales falls through? Will it not involve Namepros in it? You can't say You Bid, You win, You buy. Yes they are the rules. But if everyone on the planet used to follow the rules then there was no need for policing the stuff. Just imagine if You bid, You win, You buy stuff goes to something like, You Bid, You win, You run. Who will be there to take all the responsibility except Namepros.

No it won't involve Namepros, people doing the bidding and then not following through will be banned from Sedo's market place.

They will take their responsibility for their actions, if they want it or not.

I had a deal fall through once by an individual that willfully did not follow up on his obligations, Sedo assured me via telephone that they won't take this lightly and remove his account.

If something like a refusal to sell or to make payment would happen it's not something that reflects the character of Namepros, it reflects the character of the individual not following through.

Yeah, sure these things may happen, but it already does, with or without this section. With or without Namepros.

This section would contribute nothing to enhance this irresponsible behavior whatsoever.

Responsible people would not suddenly become irresponsible because of this dedicated section

Responsible people would not suddenly decide to refuse to sell their domain and lose their account at Sedo, or decide not to pay their minimum offer and lose their account in the process.

This whole dooms day scenario is just ridiculous

Like RJ said, the opportunity to create such a request is already a viable option.

This whole idea is a matter of convenience and organization, something that will bring more interesting deals to the surface, that has a positive effect on Sedo's market place.

[Len]

I fail to see how any possible breakdown in the sale ie. Buyer does not pay at the end of the auction, would have any repercussions on namepro's. Firstly, it would only be likely that the initial bid came from the namepro's posting. Second, there are on average 3x more guests than members online at any given time, who is to know whether one of the guests placed the initial bid! Third, having buyer's not pay on Sedo is nothing new to most of us. I for one, and I would guess this covers most of us, would welcome a namepros member bidding on my domains as I have had 100% of my auction sales completed when the buyer was from this forum.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518

As Damion said "Responsible people would not suddenly become irresponsible because of this dedicated section".

Seems like some have the Chicken Little syndrome...." The sky is falling...The sky is falling!

[-Nick-]

Yeah we will see. I think all of those who are favoring this will vanish in seconds. When the trouble starts.

It is easy to say but it is not easy to implement and to make sure everything will be fine.

Originally Posted by Len

As Damion said "Responsible people would not suddenly become irresponsible because of this dedicated section".

I think you are not getting it. I am not saying responsible people will become irresponsible. I am saying irresponsible people will start abusing it.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518

And there is no way that Namepros cannot get involved. Because Namepros is creating a special section for it [Maybe] and it shows that Namepros is encouraging it.

So the point is that Namepros is encouraging more business and not more scams and fake bids and pull outs from the auctions.

That is the real issue.

Now one cannot say that no one will try to scam the system. And we also can't say that we should throw this idea out of the window just due to that. And that is why this debate has took so long.

Thanks.

[timphelan]

Quote:

Perhaps we could talk about some of those guidelines here and find some middle ground for us to work with.

OK, here's some thoughts on guidelines:

1. Number of postings/domains allowed:

Reece had 5 domains per day I believe. Since we have some concerned members here, why not be a little more conservative with this at the start and have just 1 domain per day allowed?

2. No changing or deleting domains after originally posting them to bring transparency to the process.

3. Encouraging, not requiering though, those who place the bids to post so in the same thread. So, this way we know who is the seller and bidder.

4. Explaining as part of the rules that they will be entering a legal contract to buy the domain if their bid wins.

5. If any member posts a domain, gets a bid from a namepros member, but doesn't follow through with the sale then they will face some repercussions from namepros as well as sedo.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=461518

6. Same goes for any bidder as described in #5. How will we know this though? The only way would be voluntary postings by the bidders saying they made an opening bid on the domain.

7. No wording will be allowed that implies favors or even asking to send the domain to auction. Just post the domain with a description of why it has value, where it's registered and how much is the minimum bid to send to auction. There may be just one minimum as Reece had set it at $60. Or perhaps have separate threads/sections for different levels?

I can't think of any others now and maybe a couple of these aren't even neccessary.