Moniker auction terms Outrageous - Page 5

dag · 03-31-2008, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by pixelpadre

"Bigtime?"
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/449617-moniker-auction-terms-outrageous.html

Have you even looked at their last auction results?

http://marketplacepro.moniker.com/au...8/results.html

Yes, "bigtime" -- the CAC auction is always a smaller deal. Nice of you to point out one of their smallest auctions as somehow representative of what they do.

Maybe you haven't paid any attention to past TRAFFIC auctions? Here are some 2006 auction results, since they're the first that popped up for me in Google:

http://www.moniker.com/auctions/traf...2006/index.jsp

Sorry, but anything over $100,000 is "bigtime" to me.

pixelpadre · 03-31-2008, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by dag

Yes, "bigtime" -- the CAC auction is always a smaller deal. Nice of you to point out one of their smallest auctions as somehow representative of what they do.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=449617

Smaller deal? It was their last auction. Go figure.

Maybe you haven't paid any attention to past TRAFFIC auctions? Here are some 2006 auction results, since they're the first that popped up for me in Google:

Further proof that Monikers best days are behind them. Thanks for pointing that out to me.
http://www.moniker.com/auctions/traf...2006/index.jsp

Sorry, but anything over $100,000 is "bigtime" to me.

Another thing I forgot to mention...in the fine print it states that either party is forbidden to disclose the terms of the contract. How is that helping the seller? Sounds like they may have something to hide more than it sounds like working as a broker on the sellers behalf.

*verbster* · 03-31-2008, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Now, I haven't found occasion to use their auction service just yet.

Okay, well, let's pretend you’re a “big time” domainer, and you do have occasion to use Moniker's auction service. Let’s pretend you own a million dollar domain. All things considered, would you feel good about signing the Moniker contract? Would you even consider it? If so, Moniker thanks you...and will reward you by soon raising their take to 20% for your next domain at auction.

Speaking only for myself, I certainly wouldn't sign anything like that or give up anything to list it in any auction, especially Moniker's. In fact, they'd have to offer incentives in my favor just for me to list it with them. Would that mean a different (undisclosed) contract? Sure would if they wanted to list my million dollar domain. Think about it.

Then think about this: Why should it be any different for other domains? If you sign their contract that is there to supposedly "protect our interests as well as yours"...if your domain sells at auction, Moniker gets their share and you get yours...fair enough, since you agreed to it. But if your domain doesn't sell, what do you get? In return for an unsold domain, you don't even get financial control of your domain back...because your domain didn't sell in their auction, they get exclusive selling rights to it for a minimum of two months and limited financial rights to it for two years. Tell me how that's for my protection and not about money for Moniker.

oldtimer · 03-31-2008, 10:01 PM

I have a feeling that they will adjust their contract soon, because as it stands it is totally one sided and unfair to the point that it might be considered entrapment. No company has the right to gain control over their customers beyond what is absolutely necessary for the legitimate operation of their business. Unfortunately it is now a trend with some attorneys throwing in certain clauses in contracts for the sole purpose of gaining control over people in areas that are not related to nor necessary for the legitimate operation of the company and that only serve to keep everyone at their mercy so that they can decide how far they want to take advantage of them later on. In my opinion people do not have any obligations to honor such contracts no matter which company they are dealing with.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=449617

My advice to those who want to be domainer friendly is to make sure that your contracts, TOS and prices including any fees or commissions are fair and just to all sides, reply to customer emails and inquiries in a timely and helpful manner (don’t ignore the little guys) and be sure not to abuse your position of control and power over your customers and then you will have a lot of happy domainers on your side.

_____________________

Compassion · 03-31-2008, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by Dave Zan

Just read the print, ask questions, then weigh what you folks know and maybe
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=449617
believe to make your decision. You've all the time in the world.

The Film Every NPer should see! ESOTERIC AGENDA

We do have all the time in the world.

I have had qualms in the past with Moniker

Top 10 Most Pathetic Domains to make Traffic New York

Peace and listen to your intuition

Charley · 04-01-2008, 03:17 AM

Monte, is the same contract used by the big domainers as well ?

innovation · 04-01-2008, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by pixelpadre

Another thing I forgot to mention...in the fine print it states that either party is forbidden to disclose the terms of the contract. How is that helping the seller? Sounds like they may have something to hide more than it sounds like working as a broker on the sellers behalf.

Wouldn't they be in breach of their own contract when they decided to disclose the minimum seller's prices in the silent auctions? Seems to me there is a serious conflict of interests in this contract. As a seller and the one who pays the commission, I expect full representation on my behalf. In real estate, dual agency relationships must be properly disclosed to both parties and the agent's fiduciary duties to each party should be clearly stated. In my experience, working with Moniker has left me, the seller, feeling confused as to who they represent, me or the aftermarket. Yeah, sure they have sold a couple of my names. The question is, did Moniker's efforts sell my names or did my names sell themselves due to low pricing, which of course Moniker insisted upon?

pixelpadre · 04-01-2008, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Charley

Monte, is the same contract used by the big domainers as well ?

I'd bet your retirement that they didnt get 15% when they sold porn.com for 9 million.

Compassion · 04-01-2008, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by pixelpadre

I'd bet your retirement that they didnt get 15% when they sold porn.com for 9 million.

How come? What % would they have gotten?

rodash · 04-01-2008, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Broker

If everyone would just park their domains with a "This domain is for sale by owner:" contact email, they all "monikers etc" would loose bigtime. Use escrow.com or related service and save yourself the commission fees.

Spot on. A notice on your website is the best sales tool you can get. That way you sell to an end user, not a domainer, which means you have a chance of getting a really good return.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=449617

Auctions are only good if you have tier one names.

..

Charley · 04-02-2008, 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by tight-aggressive

How come? What % would they have gotten?

That won't be disclosed. But I presume 5 % or something.

Thirsty · 04-02-2008, 06:33 AM

The question moniker needs to ask themselves is does this contract make them money or not. While it may prevent the odd run around of the auction process, it appears to be costing them considerable good will.

The problem moniker faces is they can see when a customer sneaks out of paying a commission, but they can't measure how many customers they are losing because of this contract. This makes it very hard for them to get the balance right between protecting their auction process and attracting new customers. This is something I spend a lot of time thinking about in my business and there are no easy answers.

pixelpadre · 04-02-2008, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Thirsty

The question moniker needs to ask themselves is does this contract make them money or not. While it may prevent the odd run around of the auction process, it appears to be costing them considerable good will.

The problem moniker faces is they can see when a customer sneaks out of paying a commission, but they can't measure how many customers they are losing because of this contract. This makes it very hard for them to get the balance right between protecting their auction process and attracting new customers. This is something I spend a lot of time thinking about in my business and there are no easy answers.

A two (2) year protection period exceeds the need to protect themselves and crosses into the "domain" of greed, abuse, and contempt.

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=449617

There was a time when all cell phone contracts required 2 year commitments. Now, in an effort to get new customers, cell and satellite companies are offering no long term commitment contracts......as I suspect Moniker does.

**Dave Zan** · 04-02-2008, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by verbster

But if your domain doesn't sell, what do you get?

One idea behind this contract is you're 99% (if not 100%) sure the domain will
sell. Otherwise, why bother?

Needless to say, this isn't for everyone.

Originally Posted by Thirsty

The question moniker needs to ask themselves is does this contract make them money or not.

If Moniker used the same contract discussed here in, say, any of their recent
auctions below:

http://marketplacepro.moniker.com/auction/index.html

Then there's one answer.

While I'm not entirely sure of the rationale behind the 2-year thing, it might be
similar to, say, some employees' contracts having a 1 (or 2?) year ban working
for a competitor after resigning or being fired. Just guessing, though.

NameCharger · 04-02-2008, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by RogueWriter

I'd be willing to bet there is one heck of a lot more effort put into the marketing/selling of a house than a domain name.

In the marketing and selling of homes, there are a number of active tasks that the Broker undertakes: calling prospective Buyers, Broker previews, Open Houses, canvasing neighborhoods with for sale flyers, emailing/calling one's sphere of influence informing them of the available property. The principle here is to go out and get Buyers.

There is also passive marketing: entering properties into the MLS database, PPC campaigns, etc. The principle here is to let Buyers find me.

For Sellers to get the most bang for the commission buck, Brokers augment active and passive marketing.

Regarding domain brokerage in general:

What degree do Brokers actively market domain names? Do Brokers have contacts in other industries that they contact weekly, providing them a list of domains covered under Exclusive Agreement? If so, exactly which companies in which industries are contacted? Do domain brokers work WHOIS records for prospective end-users and send auction invites or notify them that domains are available that may fit their business?

This information should be disclosed to the Seller when a non-circumvent clause is on the table. Exactly who can't the Seller sell to within a certain time period?

pixelpadre · 04-02-2008, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Dave Zan

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=449617
While I'm not entirely sure of the rationale behind the 2-year thing, it might be
similar to, say, some employees' contracts having a 1 (or 2?) year ban working
for a competitor after resigning or being fired. Just guessing, though.

Right I can see the similarities, moniker training us and all for years and telling us their company secrets...............

oops there goes that sarcasm again.

pixelpadre · 04-03-2008, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by mcahn

Just a reminder folks - if any of you have ever auctioned anything through Christie's or Sotheby's, then you would fall off your chair if you think our agreement is that bad.

Was watching on TV last night a story about those two. Their highest commission rate is 10% but most cases 2%. Ironically the Dept of Justice convicted them of conspiring to keep commission rates high.

Originally Posted by mCahn

Auto renewal is also standard on just about anything you sign these days, but we do allow you to strike that clause if you do not want us to keep marketing and selling your domains.

page 9 Florida Realtor Apr'08: Sect 475.25(1)(r) FL Statutes provides that any real estate licensee is in violation if they have not included a definite expiration date and that automatic renewals does not qualify as such.

SharonTucci · 04-03-2008, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by pixelpadre

Was watching on TV last night a story about those two. Their highest commission rate is 10% but most cases 2%. Ironically the Dept of Justice convicted them of conspiring to keep commission rates high.

Actually those numbers are for Christie's.

Sotheby's website publishes their commission structure.

http://www.sothebys.com/help/faq/faq_duringauction.html

A little higher but no where near what Monte was saying.

If you'll notice though - their commission is charged to the buyer based on the tiered commission structure and not from the seller's earnings.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=449617

Christie's commissions are here:

http://www.christies.com/howtosell/termsofsale.asp

FWIW, in defense of cutting special deals. I contacted Moniker last year about a 6 figure buy and wanted to see if they could lower their percentage for escrow on it. I was told their percentages were firm. I don't know if the same is true for domains that are auctioned (ie the referred to 'preferred' pricing) but I can't imagine it would be given that they lost a several thousand dollar commission on a relatively easy transaction because of not budging.

oldtimer · 04-03-2008, 04:33 PM

Its hard to imagine emails from bigtime domainers going unanswered, or them being punished with higher commission rates if they complained.

Charley · 04-04-2008, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by oldtimer

Its hard to imagine emails from bigtime domainers going unanswered, or them being punished with higher commission rates if they complained.

I think they have a seperate agreement form.

**Dave Zan** · 04-04-2008, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by pixelpadre

page 9 Florida Realtor Apr'08: Sect 475.25(1)(r) FL Statutes provides that any real estate licensee is in violation if they have not included a definite expiration date and that automatic renewals does not qualify as such.

Are domain names real estate in Florida?

And please, not that sex.com thing again. Its decision hasn't been used in any
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=449617
other similar or related dispute AFAIK.

accent · 04-04-2008, 03:33 AM

This is one of the ugliest threads I have seen.

There is a real problem here that needs serious attention.

oldtimer · 04-04-2008, 04:39 AM

Well, they need to be given a chance to correct this situation, but to say that nothing is wrong with this contract and being protective of the current process is simply putting one’s interest above all principles.

_____________________

pixelpadre · 04-04-2008, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by oldtimer

Well, they need to be given a chance to correct this situation, but to say that nothing is wrong with this contract and being protective of the current process is simply putting one’s interest above all principles.

Their hard nosed approach to "if you ignore it (this thread), it will go away" is the same hard nosed approach to their take it or leave it contract. At least they are consistent.

Originally Posted by Dave Zan

Are domain names real estate in Florida?

And please, not that sex.com thing again. Its decision hasn't been used in any
other similar or related dispute AFAIK.

AFAIK?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=449617

To my knowledge, domains arent real estate, but Mr. Monte compared them to real estate.

Supreme court has ruled that domains are in fact real estate though. But I think that was for the purpose of income tax or something. Been a while since they commented on that. Time flies.

Charley · 04-04-2008, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by pixelpadre

To my knowledge, domains arent real estate, but Mr. Monte compared them to real estate.

It's Internet Real Estate.

03-31-2008, 10:01 PM	#104 (permalink)
oldtimer NamePros Regular Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: USA Posts: 626	I have a feeling that they will adjust their contract soon, because as it stands it is totally one sided and unfair to the point that it might be considered entrapment. No company has the right to gain control over their customers beyond what is absolutely necessary for the legitimate operation of their business. Unfortunately it is now a trend with some attorneys throwing in certain clauses in contracts for the sole purpose of gaining control over people in areas that are not related to nor necessary for the legitimate operation of the company and that only serve to keep everyone at their mercy so that they can decide how far they want to take advantage of them later on. In my opinion people do not have any obligations to honor such contracts no matter which company they are dealing with. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=449617 My advice to those who want to be domainer friendly is to make sure that your contracts, TOS and prices including any fees or commissions are fair and just to all sides, reply to customer emails and inquiries in a timely and helpful manner (don’t ignore the little guys) and be sure not to abuse your position of control and power over your customers and then you will have a lot of happy domainers on your side. _____________________ Last edited by oldtimer; 04-01-2008 at 07:33 AM.

04-01-2008, 03:17 AM	#106 (permalink)
Charley Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a 3 Bedroom Flat Â© Posts: 3,691	Monte, is the same contract used by the big domainers as well ? __________________ â€* Did We Know That There Aren't Really Thousands Of Bands Who Might Be Interesting, We Will Get To Deleting All Bands That Aren't In Flames, Cannibal Corpse, Morbid Angel, Deicide â€*

04-02-2008, 06:33 AM	#112 (permalink)
Thirsty NamePros Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 47	The question moniker needs to ask themselves is does this contract make them money or not. While it may prevent the odd run around of the auction process, it appears to be costing them considerable good will. The problem moniker faces is they can see when a customer sneaks out of paying a commission, but they can't measure how many customers they are losing because of this contract. This makes it very hard for them to get the balance right between protecting their auction process and attracting new customers. This is something I spend a lot of time thinking about in my business and there are no easy answers. __________________ Daniel Innovative DNA Sequencing Technologies

04-04-2008, 03:33 AM	#122 (permalink)
accent Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,295	This is one of the ugliest threads I have seen. There is a real problem here that needs serious attention. __________________ Domains for sale For List Of Country Code Domains Jewelry of Tibet and Nepal TibetanJewelry.mobi Tibetan Symbols Om Pyramids Ancient Egyptian Secrets Ancient Mystery Eden Shakti

04-04-2008, 04:39 AM	#123 (permalink)
oldtimer NamePros Regular Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: USA Posts: 626	Well, they need to be given a chance to correct this situation, but to say that nothing is wrong with this contract and being protective of the current process is simply putting one’s interest above all principles. _____________________ Last edited by oldtimer; 04-04-2008 at 05:50 AM.

04-03-2008, 04:33 PM	#119 (permalink)
oldtimer NamePros Regular Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: USA Posts: 626	Its hard to imagine emails from bigtime domainers going unanswered, or them being punished with higher commission rates if they complained.

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