A few summary notes

DNBro · 04-16-2008, 10:30 AM

Mike, accept onething that, here domainers are losing their money or Pool need to paid/pay for chargeback fees, all these happening due to lack of efficiency of Pool.com only

diddie · 04-16-2008, 11:31 AM

The only and big difference with a car and a catched domain is that the catched domain costs only reg fee, like a car would cost only registration fee, the car comes free, as the domain.

When they get scammed, they go after a scammed person, get their PROPERTY (which is discutable as it is registred to someone not the registrar) and try to make pay the scammed person for a PROFIT! (this is what is their fault), i'm not talking about any other scheme but this one: when the scammed person pays, POOL MAKES PROFIT OUT OF a SCAMMED PERSON.
.

Originally Posted by DomainRaiders.com

However many people it takes for you to understand I guess. Let me ask you this way, if the scammer hadn't sold the domain to DNBro before he did the chargeback should Pool be allowed to get the domain back? The answer is obviously yes, right? So then why should they not be entitled to their own property just because the scammer sold it to someone else? DNBro losing his money is between him and the scammer, because the scammer never had the right to sell the domain in the first place.

I'm sorry, but I don't think I understood a word of what you said. When Pool sold the domain to the "scammer," at that point he wasn't a scammer. He paid with a valid credit card, the transaction went through, and he got the domain. If you're suggesting that Pool should hold every domain until after a chargeback is no longer possible, 60+ days in most cases, you're the one talking utter nonsense. Nobody would ever buy anything there if they had to wait 2+ months to get the domain.

By your logic, if someone stole your car and sold it, you should have to pay the buyer to get it back. That is just insane.

The bottom line is that while I feel bad for DNBro, if he had covered his bases by researching who the seller was and making sure that he could get his money back if things went south, this would have ended with Pool getting the domain back from the scammer directly with no harm done.

To suggest that Pool is at fault for getting back their stolen property is absurd though. People doing business in this loose manner on the forums enables scammers to do what they do and continue making profit. People wouldn't try to steal from Pool if they weren't sure there'd be a sucker on the forums to buy it up.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/443464-help-pool-com-fraudulent.html

(I do not work for nor represent Pool.)

Who you're calling a SUCKER ? on this thread 2 persons were scammed in that way, be clear to say who you're talking to
.

Michael · 04-16-2008, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by DNBro

Mike, accept onething that, here domainers are losing their money or Pool need to paid/pay for chargeback fees, all these happening due to lack of efficiency of Pool.com only

Sorry, I can't accept that, that doesn't make any sense. If something is stolen from you you have every right to get it back, it doesn't matter if the scammer kept it or sold it or whatever. There is no argument to the contrary, which is what you have to accept.

Originally Posted by diddie

When they get scammed, they go after a scammed person, get their PROPERTY (which is discutable as it is registred to someone not the registrar) and try to make pay the scammed person for a PROFIT! (this is what is their fault), i'm not talking about any other scheme but this one: when the scammed person pays, POOL MAKES PROFIT OUT OF a SCAMMED PERSON..

Who you're calling a SUCKER ? on this thread 2 persons were scammed in that way, be clear to say who you're talking to
.

Um, it is a business, they are supposed to make profit... do you want them to give everything away for free? It isn't their fault people here are getting scammed, it is our fault. Your last comment that Pool is making profit out of a scammed person is irrevelant because you don't have to buy the domain from Pool. Pool didn't scam you, someone else did, so take it up with them. If you don't know who they are or how to reach them, that is YOUR OWN fault. Period.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464

A sucker is "a person easily cheated, deceived, or imposed upon." If you don't do due dilligence when buying a name, you're easily cheated...

DNBro · 04-16-2008, 12:43 PM

Pool making profit from scammers, means they are part of scam also, they treat those profit as a normal part of their business return but other reputed domain companies take that as a warning and do the precautions to avoid that, period.

Here itself you search, you can find around 50 cases minimum, also so many unreported. Other auction companies also having same kind of cases, then you can share here BUT WITH A PROPER LINK.

Company run by scammers, then how they can stop scammers. Even after making profit from everything they are victim also. It matter of shame such companies are still existing in this competitive world.

Michael · 04-16-2008, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by DNBro

Pool making profit from scammers, means they are part of scam also, they treat those profit as a normal part of their business return but other reputed domain companies take that as a warning and do the precautions to avoid that, period.

Here itself you search, you can find around 50 cases minimum, also so many unreported. Other auction companies also having same kind of cases, then you can share here BUT WITH A PROPER LINK.

Company run by scammers, then how they can stop scammers. Even after making profit from everything they are victim also. It matter of shame such companies are still existing in this competitive world.

Are you being serious? They aren't making profit from scammers. If they sell a domain, someone scams them, they get the domain back, then sell it for the exact same price, how are they profiting from scammers? They are back where they started with the exact same profit but they had to waste time and manpower recovering the domain. You're really showing your inexperience and paranoia if you think they are doing this on purpose.

I'm done with this thread, you don't have a leg to stand on and you know it, but you want to take out your frustration on someone else because YOU didn't do your due diligence to make sure the seller was legit. Trying to ruin the rep of a good company because of your business practices is pretty messed up in my opinion.

DNBro · 04-16-2008, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by DomainRaiders.com

Are you being serious? They aren't making profit from scammers. If they sell a domain, someone scams them, they get the domain back, then sell it for the exact same price, how are they profiting from scammers? They are back where they started with the exact same profit but they had to waste time and manpower recovering the domain. You're really showing your inexperience and paranoia if you think they are doing this on purpose.

I'm done with this thread, you don't have a leg to stand on and you know it, but you want to take out your frustration on someone else because YOU didn't do your due diligence to make sure the seller was legit. Trying to ruin the rep of a good company because of your business practices is pretty messed up in my opinion.

How you know that? They are making profit from scammers or not, you are saying they are running business to make profit and also they clearly supporting scammers. They are taking it as part of their business. What you mean by recovering the domains, domain is remaining under their control for 60 days after auction, either they are contacting the right owner after that, but they put domain/account on hold.

Here I’m not showing my lack of experience, but here I’m trying to prove lack of efficiency of company don’t deserve to run an online business. Other auction companies are not facing same kind of situation means these types of companies legally need to shut down; very soon, otherwise it will also harmful for those running company in legitimate manner.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464

Why Pool.com only having scammers and chargebacks, why this not happening with other companies?????, because this company run by scammers

Michael · 04-16-2008, 10:28 PM

Scammers are everywhere on every site, and if you think they are only on Pool you are either naive or intentionally exaggerating to try and prove a point that otherwise doesn't have any foundation. If you think Pool invites the headaches that scammers cause in an attempt to make extra profit that only exists in your imagination, you are paranoid. Either way, I'm done with this conversation because you haven't added anything of merit to it in several pages. Good luck and sorry to hear about your troubles.

accent · 04-16-2008, 10:51 PM

Appearances are important.

A huge company taking a $60 domain from a small, honest domainer is awful customer relations.

Game Over.

DNBro · 04-16-2008, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by DomainRaiders.com

Scammers are everywhere on every site, and if you think they are only on Pool you are either naive or intentionally exaggerating to try and prove a point that otherwise doesn't have any foundation. If you think Pool invites the headaches that scammers cause in an attempt to make extra profit that only exists in your imagination, you are paranoid. Either way, I'm done with this conversation because you haven't added anything of merit to it in several pages. Good luck and sorry to hear about your troubles.

Scammers everywhere, but problem is only with Pool.com, sorry to hear they are victims. Pool.com made heaven for scammers, new way to make money without taking much effort.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464

You are saying anther auction site also affected by same scammers and chargebacks, then prove instead blindly writing here on the behalf a company.

Problem is only with Pool.com, its very clear.

**Dave Zan** · 04-17-2008, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by PowerUp

I will provide you support because a satisfied customer is a repeat customer.

Your generosity is truly appreciated, considering you've lost money to person
A due to his chargeback for the product he bought from you, later sold to me,
and I haven't even paid you a dime. I won't accept your cross sells, but I will
hold you to the free after-sales support included in your product's guarantee.

If I don't get an reply to my email within 10 minutes after I click Send, or call
your phone number but no one's answering, then I somehow find your home #
and call you to answer my gazillion questions, which could take up to an hour
or so, but you're not there or you refuse to help me out, then I'll post in many
online forum or so how scammy you are for not fulfilling the free sales support
promised. I'll also say how scammy you are for trying to sell me stuff which I
don't want.

Now, this is just a pretend scenario, of course. But I'm sure you can imagine the nightmares
of that specific one with its specific circumstances, and I've dealt with those kinds of people.

Originally Posted by diddie

When they get scammed, they go after a scammed person, get their PROPERTY (which is discutable as it is registred to someone not the registrar) and try to make pay the scammed person for a PROFIT! (this is what is their fault), i'm not talking about any other scheme but this one: when the scammed person pays, POOL MAKES PROFIT OUT OF a SCAMMED PERSON.

Diddie, I thought you said you understood my post to your thread:

http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-...ml#post2691000

Originally Posted by diddie

Originally Posted by Dave Zan

That's the thing. Namescout probably thought you did the chargeback since
the domain names showed your name. (or did they?)

Especially a .com, the Registry bills the registrar $6.42 for every registration,
renewal, and/or transfer they accept. In turn, the registrar bills the end user
for it separately.

A chargeback on a domain name results in the registrar losing the fees paid by
that end user as well as any "chargeback fee" or whatever they're called. And
since they can't get their $6.42 or so back from the Registry, they've virtually
lost money on the domain name/s that got the chargeback/s.

From what I read in those emails, again, it seems like those six domain names
were originally paid for their registration periods, they were transferred to you
after you bought and paid the last user for such, then whoever last paid for
them with Namescout did the chargebacks. Again, Namescout lost money.

If the one you paid those domain names was the last one who paid for those
registrations, then perhaps you ought to "talk" to that person.

ok, i understand, in all cases i'm trying to get back to the seller, but i don't see him online now since some time...

You might want to read my post again to better understand what happens to
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464
the registrar or so when a chargeback occurs. I don't know how else to make
it any clearer than what I explained there and here, despite one member's try
which is almost exactly what I described.

Look, folks, I certainly understand how some of you feel about this. But when
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464
a business like Pool experiences this exact set of circumstances, it's certainly
up to them to decide if they "should" eat the costs and just accomodate you,
even though you didn't pay them anything.

If someone else gets wind of their accomodating you, it's a good bet they will
try to hold Pool to that. Imagine if a critical mass of people demand Pool to do
that as well to them, to the point of causing them to incur losses rather than
net profit.

Like most if not everything else in life, there are indeed risks. Some are doing
whatever they can to try to mitigate those risks, but they're not always in a
position to help others affected by those risks.

Originally Posted by accentnepal

A huge company taking a $60 domain from a small, honest domainer is awful customer relations.

It's awful customer relations to the customer, maybe. But not to Pool, or even
to whoever third party cares enough to check further rather than take things
as they seem.

Then again, some people would probably consider this specific circumstance a
sign of awful customer relations anyway, even though it's not necessarily the
company's fault for the bad karma that befell another which they hardly have
full control over.

BTW, I don't work for Pool or Namescout. But I have worked with a registrar in
a previous life for more than 4 years, and I've handled this sort of issue a few
times to help me understand how it affects all parties concerned.

PowerUp · 04-17-2008, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by Dave Zan

Your generosity is truly appreciated, considering you've lost money to person
A due to his chargeback for the product he bought from you, later sold to me,
and I haven't even paid you a dime. I won't accept your cross sells, but I will
hold you to the free after-sales support included in your product's guarantee.

If I don't get an reply to my email within 10 minutes after I click Send, or call
your phone number but no one's answering, then I somehow find your home #
and call you to answer my gazillion questions, which could take up to an hour
or so, but you're not there or you refuse to help me out, then I'll post in many
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464
online forum or so how scammy you are for not fulfilling the free sales support
promised. I'll also say how scammy you are for trying to sell me stuff which I
don't want.

Now, this is just a pretend scenario, of course. But I'm sure you can imagine the nightmares
of that specific one with its specific circumstances, and I've dealt with those kinds of people.

LOL. You'd end up in jail in no time. Your action is consistent with a stalker.

Moderator, I propose we move this thread to the legal room. So we could all debate the ultimate question which is, "In the event of a chargeback, does Pool have the legal right to retrieve a domain name from a 3rd party not related to the original transaction that was chargedback?"

accent · 04-17-2008, 06:19 AM

The issue is not if they have a legal right to property that was stolen from them, at least in my mind. The issues are if it makes good business sense to force the issue in a case where it damages an innocent party, and if it is ethical to do so. (Ever hear of "business ethics"? A few rare people believe in them, more so in obscure mountain countries.)

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464

Originally Posted by Dave_Zan

If someone else gets wind of their accomodating you, it's a good bet they will try to hold Pool to that. Imagine if a critical mass of people demand Pool to do that as well to them, to the point of causing them to incur losses rather than
net profit.

OMG - do you think they would start investigating their buyers before transfering domains then? Sounds good to me. It is certainly possible to allow development or DNS changes on a domain that is being held for a waiting period while payment clears.

diddie · 04-17-2008, 08:50 AM

################################################## ######
I work in Video production industry, and i am in the process of making a video how i was scammed, and this video will show (without purpose but it's a part of what happened to me so i can do nothing but tell) how easily scammers can act, earn money and remain unpunished and don't have to worry about any legal pursuits (since Pool doesn't loose money, so don't go after the scammer).
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464
This video will be uploaded to Youtube, Dailymotion and all major tube sites, i will create articles on few blogs to tell MY story, and social bookmark them, to be sure it will well spread on the internet to prevent people being scammed.
I repeat this video will only show how i was scammed for $300, how easily the scammer gets out of it with his money with no harm, and how Namescout/Pool is trying to get money from a scammed person to still make a profit.
If some bad people see a scheme or a process to repeat seeing this video, it won't be my fault, i'm gonna only explain what happened to me and how bad was Namescout/Pool reply to that situation.
If Namescout/Pool wants to offer me a good deal to sort out that situation please.. my email is: digito6 [at] gmail.com

#################################################

accent · 04-17-2008, 01:54 PM

^^^ What happens when "it is my property" trumps "respect for others".

Stupid Stupid Stupid Pool.

Diddie: Be VERY careful to stick to the facts. These Pool idiots could start a libel lawsuit if you exagerate.

Note to business owners. Please review this case as an example of how to turn a $60 loss (or $300, I am not clear on that), that indeed actually was much less at the margin, into a major public relations sinkhole.

Stupid Stupid Stupid Pool.

**Dave Zan** · 04-18-2008, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by PowerUp

So we could all debate the ultimate question which is, "In the event of a chargeback, does Pool have the legal right to retrieve a domain name from a 3rd party not related to the original transaction that was chargedback?"

Recall that the domain name was pushed to the OP's Namescount account. In
essense, the OP agreed to the terms of Namescout's agreement.

Feel free to read it if you're up to it:

http://www.namescout.com/TermsAndConditions.asp

There's a term there regarding right of refusal and holding Namescout and its
contractors (which includes Pool) harmless. But the only way to find out the
surefire answer to that is to probably force the issue in court.

Originally Posted by accentnepal

The issues are if it makes good business sense to force the issue in a case where it damages an innocent party, and if it is ethical to do so. (Ever hear of "business ethics"? A few rare people believe in them, more so in obscure mountain countries.)

While one can freely opine what Namescout and/or Pool did here is unethical
and goes against business sense and ethics, they're subjective things that do
vary among people. Not meaning to maybe put a strawman here, but I've seen
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464
people argue, for example, that parking pages are unethical while others think
they serve a purpose. (and I kid you not on both views...)

I said this before, but my point is Namescout and/or Pool will be the ones who
can decide on their own whether what happened is a good business move and
is arguably ethical, even if others believe otherwise. But of course, none of us
can force our views on them nor they on us.

Whether a video splashed all over the 'Net depicting what happened here will,
say, affect Namescout's and/or Pool's business remains to be seen. However,
I do hope that video will at least give their side of their story fully, without all
and/or any detail missed out.

Otherwise, some people might not get the full picture before making informed
decisions or so. I think people aren't being done any honest favors when some
issue is discussed but is "intentionally" leaving out a possible and relevant bit
or so, although others think otherwise anyway.

That's just me, though.

accent · 04-18-2008, 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by Dave Zan

While one can freely opine what Namescout and/or Pool did here is unethical
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464
and goes against business sense and ethics, they're subjective things that do
vary among people. Not meaning to maybe put a strawman here, but I've seen people argue, for example, that parking pages are unethical while others think they serve a purpose. (and I kid you not on both views...)

Agreed, ahhh, I think we have differing opinions here on a subjective matter. And subjective issues are particularly subjective where one's own money is involved, so there is value is asking the opinion of other people.

Originally Posted by Dave Zan

I said this before, but my point is Namescout and/or Pool will be the ones who
can decide on their own whether what happened is a good business move and
is arguably ethical, even if others believe otherwise. But of course, none of us
can force our views on them nor they on us.

Whether a video splashed all over the 'Net depicting what happened here will,
say, affect Namescout's and/or Pool's business remains to be seen. However,
I do hope that video will at least give their side of their story fully, without all and/or any detail missed out.

Leaving out this particular case, in general irate customers are not interested in presenting the point of view of the company they are irate about. One can hope they do not exagerate to the point of falsehood, but they often do. The internet has given customers a lot more power to fight back. Companies cannot follow a hard line anymore and see no negative effects.

I would guess that by simply consuming a bit of the company president's time to respond to this thread that Pool is already deeply in the hole on this deal.

Originally Posted by Dave Zan

Otherwise, some people might not get the full picture before making informed
decisions or so. I think people aren't being done any honest favors when some
issue is discussed but is "intentionally" leaving out a possible and relevant bit
or so, ....

Haven't seen any of that in politics, eh?

**Dave Zan** · 04-18-2008, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by accentnepal

Haven't seen any of that in politics, eh?

Sus, I've seen a lot of that happen in my country it sometimes boils my blood.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464
That's why I sometimes stay away from the news.

PowerUp · 04-18-2008, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by Dave Zan

Recall that the domain name was pushed to the OP's Namescount account. In
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464
essense, the OP agreed to the terms of Namescout's agreement.

Feel free to read it if you're up to it:

http://www.namescout.com/TermsAndConditions.asp

There's a term there regarding right of refusal and holding Namescout and its
contractors (which includes Pool) harmless. But the only way to find out the
surefire answer to that is to probably force the issue in court.

While one can freely opine what Namescout and/or Pool did here is unethical
and goes against business sense and ethics, they're subjective things that do
vary among people. Not meaning to maybe put a strawman here, but I've seen
people argue, for example, that parking pages are unethical while others think
they serve a purpose. (and I kid you not on both views...)

I said this before, but my point is Namescout and/or Pool will be the ones who
can decide on their own whether what happened is a good business move and
is arguably ethical, even if others believe otherwise. But of course, none of us
can force our views on them nor they on us.

Whether a video splashed all over the 'Net depicting what happened here will,
say, affect Namescout's and/or Pool's business remains to be seen. However,
I do hope that video will at least give their side of their story fully, without all
and/or any detail missed out.

Otherwise, some people might not get the full picture before making informed
decisions or so. I think people aren't being done any honest favors when some
issue is discussed but is "intentionally" leaving out a possible and relevant bit
or so, although others think otherwise anyway.

That's just me, though.

It's common knowledge that generally Terms or Agreement favor the service provider or seller. And some of these terms are outrageous. I remember there was a reader complaining in the newspaper that he used a jockey service to park his car. The jockey's supposed to look after the car. But at the back of the receipt there's a fine print that says "We are not responsible if your car is stolen.". Therefore Terms or Agreement sometimes are sometimes thrown out in lawsuits.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464

I agree that nobody can force their views on Pool, and it is certainly their right to decide if it's a good business decision or not.

Diddie, I hope you don't make any videos that can get you into trouble. Dave's suggestion of giving Pool a chance for their explanation in the video, or a letter explanation, is good so that both sides of the story is presented to the readers.

In the end, we as consumers also have our own rights as to choose which dropcatchers to use.

Just out of curiosity, I remember when I sign up for Pool and tried to attach a credit card, I had to fill up a form, and fax over the front and back of the card. I don't remember faxing the front and back to Namejet or Snapnames (I could be wrong here. I only remembers doing this for Pool bcos it's a pain everytime I switch credit cards my account would get suspended.) How did Pool get scammed when it has more requirements while the other 2 doesn't?

rasman · 04-22-2008, 09:12 AM

I have commented previously in this thread (as a reminder I am the CEO at Pool) and thought it worthwhile to perhaps offer a few summary comments:

1. Pool does have a very extensive fraud detection system. It is not fool-proof and occasionaly, VERY occasionally, a fraudster does slip through and manages to purchase a domain, usually with someone else's credit card. But make no mistake, we do have a series of tests to make sure a transaction is valid and we are committed to investigating illegal activity of any kind. The least of this validation is making sure all of the data on the card is porvided accurately including the CVV number which is on the back and usually means the buyer has the card in their posession. Fraudsters are getting better at obtaining this data so we use other mechanisms to identify them as well.

2. Credit card holders can issue charge backs well after a transaction is complete. I believe as long as 6 months later. In fraud cases, we usually hear about a mis-used credit card within one billing cycle, sometimes sooner when a card holder regularly reviews their account online.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464

3. When a transaction is complete, we lock the domain for 60 days (this is actually an ICANN rule I believe) which provides some protection against fraudsters. They can't transfer the domain away to another registrar during this time. I would hope that by the same token, potential buyers would consider why someone would sell a domain still in this 60 day window.

4. Pool.com will not tolerate fraudulant behaviour and we'll take all steps necessary to combat such action. And at times, we have seen extremely complex fraud schemes where the buyer and seller were in fact one and the same people using different identities. The seller sells the domain through our marketplace, gets their money and then the real credit card holder of the card used by the buyer (same person different identity) charges back the transaction. And in one case the amounts were in the 10,000 of dollars.

I appreciate the notion that perhaps it would be better "business" for Pool to simply absorb the minimal registration fee. But in many transactions, it's not just the registration fee, it is a seller price for which Pool.com takes only a small margin of profit. Moreso, the principal at stake here is making sure that fraudsters do not get away with it. Perhaps we are the only company that cares about fraudulent behaviour.

If more companies stood up to the fraudsters perhaps we could reduce their activity. Our experience is that fruadsters are generally lazy. The domain industry, as young as it is, presents easy pickings which is why it gets targetted. Ultimately, a fraudsters success is directly affected by how willing you are to execute a transaction without proper verification.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464

I think Pool.com is in fact doing our part, perhaps even to our discredit. My previous posting suggested ways to protect your self during the buying process, especially if you are buying from someone you don't know. You can also protect yourself after the fact by simply charging back whatever you paid to the seller! Assuming of course you entered into the transaction with a way to protect your payment? So, if you paid by credit card, issue a charge back. If you paid by wire, contact their bank and demand to be placed in contact with the account holder and if they refuse, ask your local law enforcement to make the request. If you paid by PayPal, contact them and seek their help in reversing the transaction.

If unfortunately you paid cash in some dark alley with no real recourse to the seller, well, buyer beware. And if they got to you once and were successful at getting your money, you can bet they will appear in your life again at some point in the future with a different identity but the same story. And you will be victimized again if you don't take the necessary precautions.

If a deal looks too good to be true it probably is. Someone that deals a domain with in days of acquiring it themselves possibly even at a discounted price is doing itfor a reason. My point all along is you owe it to yourself to know why!

Ergo · 05-07-2008, 07:36 AM

In this particular situation there is one more person who perhaps unintentionally supported scammer - NP member (widedesigns). He bought names for cheap from new member of NP without checking properly background of this name. Perhaps even he did it intentionally (to make one more quick flip without risk) because when I saw this thread it looked to me as 100% sale from scammer. I never buy these names even if they damn cheap! But widedesigns did it. And after that he passed his risk to DNBro. DNBro already bought a name from a reputable NP member with trading history and thought it's secure transaction. I think that DNBro should claim his loss from widedesigns and widedesigns should claim his loss from jrush.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464

I must be widedesigns loss if he can't get his money back from jrush!
http://www.namepros.com/domains-for-...-you-must.html

Originally Posted by widedesigns

got domain vkiy.com

fast and trusty seller!!!!thanks

It was obvious that this name was purchased at Pool for minumum 60$ and then after 10 days is being resold for just 55$ by a member registered 2 day ago with zero trading history. I think all buyers in that thread knew that it can be fraud and still they were purchasing these names.

Pool.com just took its property back.

There is another side of problem with Pool.com and scammers, that I'm worried much more than buying a name from scammer. When you are bidding for the name with scammer you can go high in price in the bidding war and you pay for example 2 or 3 times higher than you would have to pay if there was no scammer engaged in the bidding war. So sometimes Pool sells names for 120$ instead of 60$ just because there are scammers in the system. And you have to pay 120$ instead of 60$. Scammer doesn't risk his own money and your risk

And even if they find that certain bidder was a scammer would they compensate you money that you overpaid for the name? I'm afraid not. For example I bought in Feb a name for 90$. I was bidding with a person who is obviously scammer - I found out it 10 days later when another name won by this person was sold for 50% of the amount he paid for it on Pool. So this scammer brought 30$ of additional profit to Pool and I suffered from scammer even taking into consideration the fact that I own my name.

rasman · 05-07-2008, 12:09 PM

There have been some really good points made in this thread about "behaviour" and the fact that buyers need to be more aware of a sellers circumstances. There are many factors in these situations and I can tell you all that sometimes... the ONLY people involved are the scammers. I can tell you of a specific case that has been proven in court where a scammer bought a domain at Pool.com with one identity and then sold it to himself with another identity after the 60 day period. This helped cover their trail a little bit. Then, the first transaction is "charged back" but now the domain is in the hands of the "third party" and has been transferred away. Using this second identity, the sammer can now sell the domain with relative impunity unless "someone" goes after them in a serious way.

And yes, some of you may suggest this is bad PR for our customers. I'll go to bat for a real customer that is willing to work with us and provide full disclosure. But interestingly enough usually what happens is we start to investigate and the participants start to refuse to provide any information. Or the problem simply goes away. I have yet to see an investigation complete where the "real customer" has been harmed.

Pool.com is trying to stop these scams. It's intersting to see how a transaction goes very quiet when we step in to investigate. We have even had phone call conversations with a scammer where we have revealed the results of our investigation and the person on the other end of the line says... "Oh well, busted!" and hangs up. And because they are using assumed identies, we can't tace them and often the phones they use are temporary mobile phones.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464

Thats one of many reasons why we go to great lengths to ensure the proper registration of payment vehicles. Maybe other companies have more discrete methods or perhaps they are targetted less by fraudsters.

We all need to be diligent in conducting these transactions in a prudent business fashion. Only then will scammers realize they can't make money off domainers and move on to some other venue. Remember, if a deal looks too good to be true, it probably isn't.

04-16-2008, 10:28 PM	#57 (permalink)
Michael DNMedia.com Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,842	Scammers are everywhere on every site, and if you think they are only on Pool you are either naive or intentionally exaggerating to try and prove a point that otherwise doesn't have any foundation. If you think Pool invites the headaches that scammers cause in an attempt to make extra profit that only exists in your imagination, you are paranoid. Either way, I'm done with this conversation because you haven't added anything of merit to it in several pages. Good luck and sorry to hear about your troubles. __________________ MiniSites.com - Shift Your Domains Out of Park! DN Media Corporation \| Friend Me on Facebook \| Follow Me on Twitter

04-16-2008, 10:51 PM	#58 (permalink)
accent Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,299	Appearances are important. A huge company taking a $60 domain from a small, honest domainer is awful customer relations. Game Over. __________________ Domains for sale For List Of Country Code Domains Jewelry of Tibet and Nepal TibetanJewelry.mobi Tibetan Symbols Om Pyramids Ancient Egyptian Secrets Ancient Mystery Eden Shakti

04-17-2008, 08:50 AM	#63 (permalink)
diddie Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,999	################################################## ###### I work in Video production industry, and i am in the process of making a video how i was scammed, and this video will show (without purpose but it's a part of what happened to me so i can do nothing but tell) how easily scammers can act, earn money and remain unpunished and don't have to worry about any legal pursuits (since Pool doesn't loose money, so don't go after the scammer). ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464 This video will be uploaded to Youtube, Dailymotion and all major tube sites, i will create articles on few blogs to tell MY story, and social bookmark them, to be sure it will well spread on the internet to prevent people being scammed. I repeat this video will only show how i was scammed for $300, how easily the scammer gets out of it with his money with no harm, and how Namescout/Pool is trying to get money from a scammed person to still make a profit. If some bad people see a scheme or a process to repeat seeing this video, it won't be my fault, i'm gonna only explain what happened to me and how bad was Namescout/Pool reply to that situation. If Namescout/Pool wants to offer me a good deal to sort out that situation please.. my email is: digito6 [at] gmail.com ################################################# __________________ Proxy list: http://theproxi.com 5-6 years old Proxy lists for sale with PR: Prxy.us and iProxylist.com Last edited by diddie; 04-17-2008 at 08:55 AM.

04-17-2008, 01:54 PM	#64 (permalink)
accent Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,299	^^^ What happens when "it is my property" trumps "respect for others". Stupid Stupid Stupid Pool. Diddie: Be VERY careful to stick to the facts. These Pool idiots could start a libel lawsuit if you exagerate. Note to business owners. Please review this case as an example of how to turn a $60 loss (or $300, I am not clear on that), that indeed actually was much less at the margin, into a major public relations sinkhole. Stupid Stupid Stupid Pool. __________________ Domains for sale For List Of Country Code Domains Jewelry of Tibet and Nepal TibetanJewelry.mobi Tibetan Symbols Om Pyramids Ancient Egyptian Secrets Ancient Mystery Eden Shakti Last edited by accent; 04-17-2008 at 01:58 PM.

04-22-2008, 09:12 AM	#69 (permalink)
rasman NamePros Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 46	A few summary notes I have commented previously in this thread (as a reminder I am the CEO at Pool) and thought it worthwhile to perhaps offer a few summary comments: 1. Pool does have a very extensive fraud detection system. It is not fool-proof and occasionaly, VERY occasionally, a fraudster does slip through and manages to purchase a domain, usually with someone else's credit card. But make no mistake, we do have a series of tests to make sure a transaction is valid and we are committed to investigating illegal activity of any kind. The least of this validation is making sure all of the data on the card is porvided accurately including the CVV number which is on the back and usually means the buyer has the card in their posession. Fraudsters are getting better at obtaining this data so we use other mechanisms to identify them as well. 2. Credit card holders can issue charge backs well after a transaction is complete. I believe as long as 6 months later. In fraud cases, we usually hear about a mis-used credit card within one billing cycle, sometimes sooner when a card holder regularly reviews their account online. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464 3. When a transaction is complete, we lock the domain for 60 days (this is actually an ICANN rule I believe) which provides some protection against fraudsters. They can't transfer the domain away to another registrar during this time. I would hope that by the same token, potential buyers would consider why someone would sell a domain still in this 60 day window. 4. Pool.com will not tolerate fraudulant behaviour and we'll take all steps necessary to combat such action. And at times, we have seen extremely complex fraud schemes where the buyer and seller were in fact one and the same people using different identities. The seller sells the domain through our marketplace, gets their money and then the real credit card holder of the card used by the buyer (same person different identity) charges back the transaction. And in one case the amounts were in the 10,000 of dollars. I appreciate the notion that perhaps it would be better "business" for Pool to simply absorb the minimal registration fee. But in many transactions, it's not just the registration fee, it is a seller price for which Pool.com takes only a small margin of profit. Moreso, the principal at stake here is making sure that fraudsters do not get away with it. Perhaps we are the only company that cares about fraudulent behaviour. If more companies stood up to the fraudsters perhaps we could reduce their activity. Our experience is that fruadsters are generally lazy. The domain industry, as young as it is, presents easy pickings which is why it gets targetted. Ultimately, a fraudsters success is directly affected by how willing you are to execute a transaction without proper verification. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464 I think Pool.com is in fact doing our part, perhaps even to our discredit. My previous posting suggested ways to protect your self during the buying process, especially if you are buying from someone you don't know. You can also protect yourself after the fact by simply charging back whatever you paid to the seller! Assuming of course you entered into the transaction with a way to protect your payment? So, if you paid by credit card, issue a charge back. If you paid by wire, contact their bank and demand to be placed in contact with the account holder and if they refuse, ask your local law enforcement to make the request. If you paid by PayPal, contact them and seek their help in reversing the transaction. If unfortunately you paid cash in some dark alley with no real recourse to the seller, well, buyer beware. And if they got to you once and were successful at getting your money, you can bet they will appear in your life again at some point in the future with a different identity but the same story. And you will be victimized again if you don't take the necessary precautions. If a deal looks too good to be true it probably is. Someone that deals a domain with in days of acquiring it themselves possibly even at a discounted price is doing itfor a reason. My point all along is you owe it to yourself to know why!

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04-16-2008, 10:30 AM	THREAD STARTER #51 (permalink)
DNBro ValidDomains.com Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,484 Follow @DNRoom	Mike, accept onething that, here domainers are losing their money or Pool need to paid/pay for chargeback fees, all these happening due to lack of efficiency of Pool.com only

04-16-2008, 12:43 PM	THREAD STARTER #54 (permalink)
DNBro ValidDomains.com Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,484 Follow @DNRoom	Pool making profit from scammers, means they are part of scam also, they treat those profit as a normal part of their business return but other reputed domain companies take that as a warning and do the precautions to avoid that, period. Here itself you search, you can find around 50 cases minimum, also so many unreported. Other auction companies also having same kind of cases, then you can share here BUT WITH A PROPER LINK. Company run by scammers, then how they can stop scammers. Even after making profit from everything they are victim also. It matter of shame such companies are still existing in this competitive world.

05-07-2008, 12:09 PM	#71 (permalink)
rasman NamePros Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 46	We all have to fight these scammers together There have been some really good points made in this thread about "behaviour" and the fact that buyers need to be more aware of a sellers circumstances. There are many factors in these situations and I can tell you all that sometimes... the ONLY people involved are the scammers. I can tell you of a specific case that has been proven in court where a scammer bought a domain at Pool.com with one identity and then sold it to himself with another identity after the 60 day period. This helped cover their trail a little bit. Then, the first transaction is "charged back" but now the domain is in the hands of the "third party" and has been transferred away. Using this second identity, the sammer can now sell the domain with relative impunity unless "someone" goes after them in a serious way. And yes, some of you may suggest this is bad PR for our customers. I'll go to bat for a real customer that is willing to work with us and provide full disclosure. But interestingly enough usually what happens is we start to investigate and the participants start to refuse to provide any information. Or the problem simply goes away. I have yet to see an investigation complete where the "real customer" has been harmed. Pool.com is trying to stop these scams. It's intersting to see how a transaction goes very quiet when we step in to investigate. We have even had phone call conversations with a scammer where we have revealed the results of our investigation and the person on the other end of the line says... "Oh well, busted!" and hangs up. And because they are using assumed identies, we can't tace them and often the phones they use are temporary mobile phones. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=443464 Thats one of many reasons why we go to great lengths to ensure the proper registration of payment vehicles. Maybe other companies have more discrete methods or perhaps they are targetted less by fraudsters. We all need to be diligent in conducting these transactions in a prudent business fashion. Only then will scammers realize they can't make money off domainers and move on to some other venue. Remember, if a deal looks too good to be true, it probably isn't.

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A few summary notes

We all have to fight these scammers together