Why LLL.coms are no longer "safe" bets - Page 2

Ergo · 02-25-2008, 09:04 AM

Quote:

I did spend some time making the first site (sqsv), but now it is easy to migrate to other domain names. Also Google has so far indexed over 9000 pages from SQSV, which is a great news and it is getting ton of traffic today than it would have with parked pages.

There are some weak points in your system
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/short-domain-discussion/436568-why-lll-coms-no-longer-safe.html
1. I've been developing a lot of articles sites and there are very often banned by Google for not unique content.
2. If you have 9000 articles you will be soon receiving from different companies complaints about content of these articles.
3. If similar articles will be on 500 sites all of them either will be glued or banned.

italiandragon · 02-25-2008, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by -NC-

I think you're missing a critical point that fonzie is making.
- LLL.com is now so valuable that it makes more financial sense to go for UDRP.
- LLL.org/us is not as valuable, so making an offer to purchase makes more financial sense than the UDRP route.

Tomorrow I`ll start a TM on whatever name I like and then I`ll ask to PayPal to give me

X.COM

then I`ll go for the LL.com , imagine how dumb are people buying domains in the 5 or 6 or even 7 figures range......they could simply fill a UDRP right?

dag · 02-25-2008, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by italiandragon

and .mobis. :

, I got a load of them and no one cares about them.

You just can't expect to sell them here, Lorenzo. Put any of them up for auction at Sedo, and you'll get at least $200 for each...

sdtrader · 02-25-2008, 10:00 AM

You'll have to excuse my relative ignorance on this subject but the following questions come to mind.

1)Regardless of my care in looking after my rights to the domain, am I willing to go through the trouble and cost of defending it against overzealous reverse domain hijacking. Even if I had legal grounds to win the case, chances are I would be outspent and submit by default to any company who look at $1300 as a petty cash expense.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=436568
How much did the owner of AVG.com lose in legal costs on top of the loss of his investment.

2)In terms of dealing with section 3 of the complaint, it has been suggested that the absence of a parked page is sufficient or at least beneficial in showing lack of bad faith. However profit by sale or intended sale may also be a a factor and that may be hard to deny if one has a record of selling domains for profit.Worse yet would be to advertise or list the name for sale.

3)If i do not indicate that I am selling the name, my chances are reduced dramatically and I'm probably only going to get spam requests to sell it for $60 or fishing email from the complainant asking me what price I had in mind for selling it. In any case I would need to be suspicious of any such inquiry.

4)As for putting up unrelated ads I cannot see the point because the profit would be so minimal as to not warrant adding this factor into the complainants objection.

Again, I am not as familiar as some of you in this area and as such this type of investment would be risky for me as it would for others in the same situation.I would tend to buy 50 LLLL.coms as an alternative to owning a single LLL.

italiandragon · 02-25-2008, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by dag

You just can't expect to sell them here, Lorenzo. Put any of them up for auction at Sedo, and you'll get at least $200 for each...

oh yeah that`s great...
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=436568

I paid $300 for VPO.mobi (Video Poker Online was a good one...)

If I have to sell in loss I`ll rather keep them

fonzie_007 · 02-25-2008, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by italiandragon

Tomorrow I`ll start a TM on whatever name I like and then I`ll ask to PayPal to give me

X.COM
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=436568

then I`ll go for the LL.com , imagine how dumb are people buying domains in the 5 or 6 or even 7 figures range......they could simply fill a UDRP right?

What you are talking about is reverse domain hijacking. It does happens, but in these circumstances the registrant usually wins the UDRP.

I'm dealing with a situation right now of a company threatening a UDRP on a LLLL.com of mine, which I've explained to them would be reverse hijacking. I have yet to see what the outcome will be.

accent · 02-26-2008, 02:48 AM

Isn't this what Rick Schwartz has been blowing the horn about?

There needs to be a clear line between domaining and cybersquating, a difficult thing to draw. There also needs to be a filter so that domain owners are not forced to spend thousands of dollars to defend against obvious reverse hijackings.

versu23 · 02-26-2008, 03:52 AM

This is maybe the best thread for many many months. Fonzie is right. There will be a problem in the near future with th LLL.com and in my opinion also with some others LLL.org for example once the average price will reach 600$ let's say. In an end-user is coming to Buy rre.org for ex and you'll ask 2500$, you can have the big problem fonzie is talking about.

italiandragon · 02-26-2008, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by versu23

This is maybe the best thread for many many months. Fonzie is right. There will be a problem in the near future with th LLL.com and in my opinion also with some others LLL.org for example once the average price will reach 600$ let's say. In an end-user is coming to Buy rre.org for ex and you'll ask 2500$, you can have the big problem fonzie is talking about.

some end users make it a principle: I read people rather paying $1,500 for a UDRP rather than buying the name for $800 simply because they did not want to pay what media define "cybersquatters"

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=436568

This problem is not only about LLL , but the whole domain industry.

You want a good example? Just google how many domains someone like Andy Tran of SmartBuy has lost.

Pound · 02-26-2008, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by italiandragon

orgs : no one really is going to pay much for a LLL.org

. This is one of the most inaccurate statements I have ever heard. Only recently I had a $xx,xxx sale for a 3L .org while the .com and .net were parked. Think about the potential userbase for .org; charities, organisations, etc. - these all have a ridiciulous amount of money available for such assets as a good domain name. Fair enough Gold.net is worth more than Gold.org (because of the extension's use), however, when it comes to LLLs it is an entirely different story.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=436568

I have been saying for months how undervalued LLL.orgs are on the reseller market. The main reason for this is the mentaility that resellers have ("They are a charity so they have no money"). This is completely wrong and you will find that the reason the LLL.org market look weak on the surface is that virtually all the high value sales will be done privately through WHOIS, etc. (this is how I was contacted); thus leading to an apparently weak market. In fact, it is entirely the opposite.

Morgan · 02-26-2008, 02:58 PM

In my opinion i believe that LLL.com's will continue to rise with the increase in LLLL.com value and due to the amount of high sales LLL.com's have been generating lately.

snoop · 02-26-2008, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by gooster

. This is one of the most inaccurate statements I have ever heard. Only recently I had a $xx,xxx sale for a 3L .org while the .com and .net were parked. Think about the potential userbase for .org; charities, organisations, etc. - these all have a ridiciulous amount of money available for such assets as a good domain name. Fair enough Gold.net is worth more than Gold.org (because of the extension's use), however, when it comes to LLLs it is an entirely different story.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=436568

I have been saying for months how undervalued LLL.orgs are on the reseller market. The main reason for this is the mentaility that resellers have ("They are a charity so they have no money"). This is completely wrong and you will find that the reason the LLL.org market look weak on the surface is that virtually all the high value sales will be done privately through WHOIS, etc. (this is how I was contacted); thus leading to an apparently weak market. In fact, it is entirely the opposite.

There is not much to be gained from talking about one sale as though it is a good indication of the market. I have to agree with the post above that 3 leter .org sales are typically on the low end.

-REECE- · 02-26-2008, 05:20 PM

Something perhaps not previously considered is the amount of domainers that are now flush with cash thanks to LLLL.coms that are looking to diversify elsewhere... I don't see many of them turning their backs on the short dotcoms that made them their fortune. I'd imagine there's at least 100 (and this number is growing every week!) NPers whose LLLL.com holdings are worth $25k+, so there may certainly be alot of new players coming into the LLL.com market in the near future.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=436568

Originally Posted by Morgan

In my opinion i believe that LLL.com's will continue to rise with the increase in LLLL.com value and due to the amount of high sales LLL.com's have been generating lately.

VURG · 03-02-2008, 06:54 PM

I expect them to hit six figures in the next 2 decades.

Not touching them though. Too expensive for my budget.

snoop · 03-02-2008, 09:34 PM

Interestingly lll.com saw only a $100 rise last month at the minimum level according to 3character.com, I think that is the lowest rise in quite a long time (will be interesting to see if falls are recorded in a month or two). Whilst I own quite a few I think the rises over the last few months is going against the general market which is in decline, and hard to really see a good reason for 3 letter .com's to be marching to a different beat like they have been.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=436568

That said I don't agree with fonzies point about udrp's being a good reason not to own, that is a longshot risk, as he has stated he has found 67 lost via UDRP, (if they are all .com-not stated) that is 0.381% lost in 8 years, ie 1 in 300. At that rate the average 3 letter .com (if you assume all have equal legal risk-which they obviously don't since they ones lost as usually very obvious names like avg.com) can be expect to be lost in the year 3208 (1200 years time)

Regarding LLLL.com's they seem to have passed their peak, with the worst ones now at the $40 level.

central · 03-03-2008, 04:09 AM

This WIPO decision (ucp.com) was just released:

http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/d...2008-0017.html

central

snoop · 03-03-2008, 04:37 AM

Originally Posted by central

This WIPO decision (ucp.com) was just released:

http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/d...2008-0017.html

central

Looks to be a case of theft. Pity godaddy doesn't take this kind of thing seriously.

"Complainant indicates that an unauthorized third party accessed its e-mail account on or about March 5, 2006. Further, Complainant alleges that someone used its e-mail account to fraudulently transfer the disputed domain name from Complainant to Respondent between March 5, 2006 and the date Complainant recovered access and control over its e-mail account, March 8, 2006. Complainant alleges that it was first notified of the unauthorized transfer of the disputed domain name on March 10, 2006 and that it unsuccessfully sought relief from the fraudulent transfer through the Registrar, GoDaddy.com, Inc. Complainant alleges that it notified the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation of the unauthorized transfer and that the investigative agency preliminarily concluded that some unauthorized third party had obtained access to Complainant’s e-mail account and fraudulently transferred ownership of the disputed domain name to Respondent."

bfluid · 03-03-2008, 10:42 AM

67 eh?

So that means one out of every 262 LLL.com's has had an UDRP?

Sounds like a risk anyone with some sense should be willing to take.

italiandragon · 03-04-2008, 05:08 AM

Originally Posted by snoop

Interestingly lll.com saw only a $100 rise last month at the minimum level according to 3character.com, I think that is the lowest rise in quite a long time (will be interesting to see if falls are recorded in a month or two). Whilst I own quite a few I think the rises over the last few months is going against the general market which is in decline, and hard to really see a good reason for 3 letter .com's to be marching to a different beat like they have been.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=436568

That said I don't agree with fonzies point about udrp's being a good reason not to own, that is a longshot risk, as he has stated he has found 67 lost via UDRP, (if they are all .com-not stated) that is 0.381% lost in 8 years, ie 1 in 300. At that rate the average 3 letter .com (if you assume all have equal legal risk-which they obviously don't since they ones lost as usually very obvious names like avg.com) can be expect to be lost in the year 3208 (1200 years time)

Regarding LLLL.com's they seem to have passed their peak, with the worst ones now at the $40 level.

3character shows the MINIMUN price, not the average one, it`s not really accurate and the Premium/not Premium story is a joke. The domain industry evolves.

Chappy · 03-04-2008, 01:34 PM

Of course there are no safe bets in today's domain industry. There are varying degrees of risk and with that comes varying rewards. LLL.com's continue to be the most prestigious acronym domains behind LL.com and they will always be sought after. If you are concerned about UDRP then the safest bet is to no park these domains. As you say, in general the traffic/revenue is low such that it becomes an easy decision. Companies will continue to pay large amounts to secure these domains for their businesses.

Clearly, as LLL.com prices have risen sharply it has limited the number of buyers who have the ability to invest in them. Fortunately there are other cheaper (but also thriving) markets (i.e LLLL's) that the smaller players can dabble in.

As with any investment decisions - choose the level of risk you are willing to accept and go from there!

snoop · 03-04-2008, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by italiandragon

3character shows the MINIMUN price, not the average one, it`s not really accurate and the Premium/not Premium story is a joke. The domain industry evolves.

I very clearly stated that in my post,
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=436568

"Interestingly lll.com saw only a $100 rise last month at the minimum level according to 3character.com,"

Not sure why you'd think it is "not really accurate" though.

Pound · 03-04-2008, 05:37 PM

If I were talking about LLLs to invest in from 3character.com it would be:

LLL.com - Hold
LLL.net - Hold
LLL.org - Buy
LLL.biz - Sell
LLL.info - Hold
LLL.us - No experience

Pred · 03-04-2008, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by gooster

If I were talking about LLLs to invest in from 3character.com it would be:

LLL.com - Hold
LLL.net - Hold
LLL.org - Buy
LLL.biz - Sell
LLL.info - Hold
LLL.us - No experience

totally agree.

GreenGambler · 03-04-2008, 05:55 PM

Thanks for posting this thread Fonzie. This brings up a lot of new issues for me to review and learn about. I look forward to reading more from NPers on this topic.

NameCharger · 03-04-2008, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Reece

"Hello Ryerson International, I am writing to you because I own RYI dotcom and was wondering if you'd be interested in making an offer on this domain name which I noticed happens to be your stock ticker. <<< NO NO NO NO NO >>>

literally

02-25-2008, 10:00 AM	#29 (permalink)
sdtrader NamePros Regular Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 591	You'll have to excuse my relative ignorance on this subject but the following questions come to mind. 1)Regardless of my care in looking after my rights to the domain, am I willing to go through the trouble and cost of defending it against overzealous reverse domain hijacking. Even if I had legal grounds to win the case, chances are I would be outspent and submit by default to any company who look at $1300 as a petty cash expense. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=436568 How much did the owner of AVG.com lose in legal costs on top of the loss of his investment. 2)In terms of dealing with section 3 of the complaint, it has been suggested that the absence of a parked page is sufficient or at least beneficial in showing lack of bad faith. However profit by sale or intended sale may also be a a factor and that may be hard to deny if one has a record of selling domains for profit.Worse yet would be to advertise or list the name for sale. 3)If i do not indicate that I am selling the name, my chances are reduced dramatically and I'm probably only going to get spam requests to sell it for $60 or fishing email from the complainant asking me what price I had in mind for selling it. In any case I would need to be suspicious of any such inquiry. 4)As for putting up unrelated ads I cannot see the point because the profit would be so minimal as to not warrant adding this factor into the complainants objection. Again, I am not as familiar as some of you in this area and as such this type of investment would be risky for me as it would for others in the same situation.I would tend to buy 50 LLLL.coms as an alternative to owning a single LLL. Last edited by sdtrader; 02-25-2008 at 10:06 AM.

02-26-2008, 02:48 AM	#32 (permalink)
accent Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,295	Isn't this what Rick Schwartz has been blowing the horn about? There needs to be a clear line between domaining and cybersquating, a difficult thing to draw. There also needs to be a filter so that domain owners are not forced to spend thousands of dollars to defend against obvious reverse hijackings. __________________ Domains for sale For List Of Country Code Domains Jewelry of Tibet and Nepal TibetanJewelry.mobi Tibetan Symbols Om Pyramids Ancient Egyptian Secrets Ancient Mystery Eden Shakti

02-26-2008, 03:52 AM	#33 (permalink)
versu23 NamePros Regular Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 329	This is maybe the best thread for many many months. Fonzie is right. There will be a problem in the near future with th LLL.com and in my opinion also with some others LLL.org for example once the average price will reach 600$ let's say. In an end-user is coming to Buy rre.org for ex and you'll ask 2500$, you can have the big problem fonzie is talking about. __________________ Delayed ejaculation pills \| Erectile dysfunction remedies

02-26-2008, 02:58 PM	#36 (permalink)
Morgan Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 1,848	In my opinion i believe that LLL.com's will continue to rise with the increase in LLLL.com value and due to the amount of high sales LLL.com's have been generating lately. __________________ Horse Racing Tips - Sports News - ZYV.COM 5L.ORG P3O.COM 0BR.COM 0LY.COM CW0.COM 4W9.COM QVI.NET EYV.NET GQX.NET GYH.NET

03-02-2008, 09:34 PM	#40 (permalink)
snoop New User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,072	Interestingly lll.com saw only a $100 rise last month at the minimum level according to 3character.com, I think that is the lowest rise in quite a long time (will be interesting to see if falls are recorded in a month or two). Whilst I own quite a few I think the rises over the last few months is going against the general market which is in decline, and hard to really see a good reason for 3 letter .com's to be marching to a different beat like they have been. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=436568 That said I don't agree with fonzies point about udrp's being a good reason not to own, that is a longshot risk, as he has stated he has found 67 lost via UDRP, (if they are all .com-not stated) that is 0.381% lost in 8 years, ie 1 in 300. At that rate the average 3 letter .com (if you assume all have equal legal risk-which they obviously don't since they ones lost as usually very obvious names like avg.com) can be expect to be lost in the year 3208 (1200 years time) Regarding LLLL.com's they seem to have passed their peak, with the worst ones now at the $40 level. Last edited by snoop; 03-02-2008 at 09:40 PM.

03-02-2008, 06:54 PM	#39 (permalink)
VURG VURG Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 2,606	I expect them to hit six figures in the next 2 decades. Not touching them though. Too expensive for my budget.

03-03-2008, 04:09 AM	#41 (permalink)
central NamePros Regular Join Date: May 2005 Location: .no Posts: 621	This WIPO decision (ucp.com) was just released: http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/d...2008-0017.html central

03-03-2008, 10:42 AM	#43 (permalink)
bfluid Mr. LLLL Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: GA, USA Posts: 1,476	67 eh? So that means one out of every 262 LLL.com's has had an UDRP? Sounds like a risk anyone with some sense should be willing to take. __________________ Have Questions Concerning Domaining? I'm Here to Help! :)

03-04-2008, 01:34 PM	#45 (permalink)
Chappy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: San Francisco Posts: 1,107	Of course there are no safe bets in today's domain industry. There are varying degrees of risk and with that comes varying rewards. LLL.com's continue to be the most prestigious acronym domains behind LL.com and they will always be sought after. If you are concerned about UDRP then the safest bet is to no park these domains. As you say, in general the traffic/revenue is low such that it becomes an easy decision. Companies will continue to pay large amounts to secure these domains for their businesses. Clearly, as LLL.com prices have risen sharply it has limited the number of buyers who have the ability to invest in them. Fortunately there are other cheaper (but also thriving) markets (i.e LLLL's) that the smaller players can dabble in. As with any investment decisions - choose the level of risk you are willing to accept and go from there! __________________ Domainer Since 1975

03-04-2008, 05:37 PM	#47 (permalink)
Pound Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: UK Posts: 2,065	If I were talking about LLLs to invest in from 3character.com it would be: LLL.com - Hold LLL.net - Hold LLL.org - Buy LLL.biz - Sell LLL.info - Hold LLL.us - No experience

03-04-2008, 05:55 PM	#49 (permalink)
GreenGambler Visit -- NameManor.com Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Missouri--USA Posts: 3,494 Follow @ArtlicoiusArt	Thanks for posting this thread Fonzie. This brings up a lot of new issues for me to review and learn about. I look forward to reading more from NPers on this topic. __________________ Mewv.com is Currently for Sale on Ebay! Original Abstract Art Abstract Artwork For Sale

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