[tetrapak]

Developement just adds to the value, don't worry Reece Btw, i have to agree with you on the W / U discussion, i feel the same way.

[italiandragon]

Originally Posted by Reece

I'm going to side and at the same time disagree with both of you here... USE does not necessarily correlate with value. Just because a letter has a certain percentage of use, it doesn't mean that it will represent that same percentage of overall sales dollars. I have all the TDVR stats on what every LLLL.com sold for each and every day in February and March... There's nothing in there that suggests W is premium, although there is ample evidence that suggests that U is worthy of being a lesser quality premium letter -- in the same boat as F,G, and H -- at least when it comes to the 4 letter dotcom market. It's impossible to take 3 letter dotcom principles and apply them to 4 letter .coms. Only a fool would suggest that NWOQ is (or should be) worth 1/26th of NWO, yet in certain instances, this may (or may in the future) prove true. 3 and 4 letter dotcoms are entirely different beasts... "Domainer demand" in the 3 letter space is so different from the 4 letter space, they really are incomparable and whether Zesty's stats are correct or not, I don't think we can gain anything from looking at the 3 letter space and trying to apply or base estimates of value on the 4 letter space... W has seen some strong sales (NWO @ 31k in example), but heuristic availability is not reason enough to truly concur a new trend in premium letters has occurred... Simply put, current stats in the 4 letter market does not suggest W is a premium letter. The case for W being premium actually seems stronger in the 3 letter space, although I don't really know if I'd count it's comparable letters (F,G,H) as premium either... "Premium" LLL.coms containing 2 letters from the set (F,G,H) tend to sell at a minimum 20% discount to premium LLL.coms containing 3 letters of which none are F,G, or H. A perfect example of a potential premium combination in the 3 letter space but not necessarily in the 4 letter space is an LLL.com containing E and U. EUA, EUB, EUC, EUD, EUE, EUF, EUG, EUH,... Only a fool would suggest any of these won't fetch prices well above min premium LLL.com prices, although this is a special case granted EU has a very obvious acronym. Just because U has immense value in this particular case does not mean it would have immense value in EUDG, EUQX, EUWZ, etc... It's an entirely different world when you add an additional letter and the "old rules" need not necessarily apply.

Reece, I really don`t feel well yet enough to reply to your thread but as more and more these discussions over which letters are premiums and which are not (if you check now there is someone criticising you deeply in THIS THREAD ) I just would like to say this one more time:


This is what happened in my opinion:


1) someone in the past wrote a price guide which was incorrect

2) a large part of domainers followed that price guide since it was the first and only one and by word of mouth it became more and more reliable because domainers were referring to it so it was like a paradox , a catch 22 :
it was valid because people were referring to it and by referring to it, it was getting even more valid over time.

3) by 2008 , people got used to it and still think that the incorrect price guide is right because of what happened. Of course, since current domain sales are reffered to the guide, the prices are supporting it.


In the mean time, letters such as W and U , largely used more then other Premium letters , still face some doubts.

I finish by adding that I always stated that LLLL.com should woth AT LEAST 1/26 (more than likely about 1/20 for reasons I already explained) of THEIR SIMILAR LLL.com so your example is wrong:

Quote:

NWOQ is (or should be) worth 1/26th of NWO

I`d rather say:
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/short-domain-discussion/429599-lll-com-sales-report-discussion-thread.html
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=429599

NWQO.com worths at least 1/26 of NWQ.com

Same letters but quite different.

I agree that making it a standard rule is quite hard for each LLLL.com but it`s going to happen soon or later like it happened for the LLL.com and right in this thread, we should limit the evaluation to the LLL.com I think.

Thanks

[zestydomains*com]

Originally Posted by italiandragon

1) someone in the past wrote a price guide which was incorrect 2) a large part of domainers followed that price guide since it was the first and only one and by word of mouth it became more and more reliable because domainers were referring to it so it was like a paradox , a catch 22 : ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=429599 it was valid because people were referring to it and by referring to it, it was getting even more valid over time. 3) by 2008 , people got used to it and still think that the incorrect price guide is right because of what happened. Of course, since current domain sales are reffered to the guide, the prices are supporting it. In the mean time, letters such as W and U , largely used more then other Premium letters , still face some doubts.

ItalianDragon,

I have no beef with you my friend and I respect your work and your thoughts. If you want W and U to be premium, there's no worries in making it so for you.

The 3character.com guide is not incorrect. The 3character.com author does not have an agenda regarding premium lettering. The guide is offered free of charge (no subscriptions, no charges) and is very carefully maintained for accuracy. I like to think that a couple hundred visitors a day come to the site because they find the info helpful and accurate.

Please go easy on the accusations...I'm just a fellow domainer who's hoping to offer some helpful information in an area where I have some helpful experience.

- zesty

[italiandragon]

Originally Posted by zestydomains*com

ItalianDragon, I have no beef with you my friend and I respect your work and your thoughts. If you want W and U to be premium, there's no worries in making it so for you. The 3character.com guide is not incorrect. The 3character.com author does not have an agenda regarding premium lettering. The guide is offered free of charge (no subscriptions, no charges) and is very carefully maintained for accuracy. I like to think that a couple hundred visitors a day come to the site because they find the info helpful and accurate. Please go easy on the accusations...I'm just a fellow domainer who's hoping to offer some helpful information in an area where I have some helpful experience. - zesty

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=429599
Dear Zesty,

maybe it`s because I`m NOT a native English speaker, or maybe it`s because I`m currently ill , but I did not mean to accuse anyone.

I simply expressed my opinion and it`s that I think that the guide is INCORRECT for the already discussed things.

I offered you to prove me wrong by showing the datas that lead you to put the letters U and W in the NON Premium category.

My intention is NOT to win, lose , accuse or blame but simply to find the truth about something that maybe was true some years ago, maybe not , but more important may be not true NOW.

Thank you

P.S.: you site has helped me too and it`s useful, I`m just challenging the accuracy of the info provided there.....take it like feedback since I`m one of your readers too.

[Pred]

thats a fair comment zestmeister
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=429599

however imo it is just a site and just one personns opinion, i take no relevance from it, unfortunately many noobs do, even some guys who have been domaining a couple of years i notice actually think some of this stuff is gospel lol
that i think is dragons beef.
i will say by actually even trying to say 'w' is not premium takes a lot of credibility from the site, just on its own, thats my honest opinion.

having said that it is a useful addition to take some info from and as long as people take some info and some with a pinch of salt, its fine, its just when people believe religiously and try to buy a L-L.com off you quoting $1400 or whatever it is, even though i haven't seen one sell for that for about 2 years lol

[Spade]

I think even more interesting then the debate over determing proper valuations (based on ranking of letters) is the membership of this forum, posting on this topic. Has the LLL.com club become so exclusive (and expensive) , only few members belong?

I remember at the end of 06 when you could pick them up at 2,500-3k without too much trouble. The rising prices in domain history suggest strong and continued growth, a very safe bet on this caliber of domain name.

Justin

[italiandragon]

Originally Posted by italiandragon

Sedo ended auction: ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=429599 BCE.com $28,001 http://sedo.com/auction/auction_hist...ed=&partnerid=

The sale above has been NOW completed (paid).

[italiandragon]

Great name ending soon: DRT.com , currently at $19,999


Let`s have a look at the past LLL.com sales :


dda.com $28,350 2008-03-25 moniker.com
bce.com $28,001 2008-03-21SEDO.com
wfk.com $8,880 2008-03-20 AfterNic.com
lkd.com $12,505 2008-03-14 SEDO.com
exf.com $8,100 2008-03-08 SEDO.com
wqh.com $6,400 2008-03-06 SEDO.com
egz.com $7,300 2008-03-06 SEDO.com
qwc.com $7,501 2008-03-05 SEDO.com
gvq.com $9,202 2008-03-05 SEDO.com
qud.com $18,500 2008-03-04 SEDO.com
edo.com $25,277 2008-03-03 SEDO.com
ple.com $18,985 2008-03-02 SEDO.com
klq.com $8,657 2008-03-01 SEDO.com
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=429599
ddp.com $19,500 2008-02-28 SEDO.com
wfz.com $9,078 2008-02-28 SEDO.com
xws.com $9,078 2008-02-28 SEDO.com
zty.com $6,100 2008-02-28 SEDO.com
aux.com $30,000 2008-02-27 snapnames
rxl.com $8,100 2008-02-27 SEDO.com
zps.com $30,500 2008-02-27 AfterNic.com
rah.com $15,000 2008-02-27 snapnames
dfl.com $24,500 2008-02-27 SEDO.com
wvf.com $12,413 2008-02-15 SEDO.com
fnu.com $15,502 2008-02-13 SEDO.com
ilu.com $20,000 2008-02-12 SEDO.com


And this is just the first page at NameBio when filtering LLL.com

Clearly the LLL.com are on big rise so I don`t consider $20,000 a high price for DRT.com (we all know that there is a great domainer out there as potential end user for this one)

Also, a note for the biggest ones since October 2007:

via.com $157,500 2007-12-06 SEDO.com

our.com $60,000 2007-12-06 SEDO.com

nis.com $71,000 2007-11-20 SEDO.com

cab.com $110,000 2007-10-31 drt auction

guy.com $150,000 2007-10-31 SEDO.com

rcs.com $95,000 2007-10-31 SEDO.com

otv.com $110,000 2007-10-24 AfterNic.com

[ssamriga]

well the 3char price guide as the author said is not an opinion but a sales analysis, so it is quite different. of course there may be because of it something like an infinite loop - people follow the guide, sell 'non premiums' lower, guide takes these prices into account and so they stay low.

Also Italiandragon is again counting real dictionary words as LLLs, these should never be counted.
Same as '350k LLLL end-users', everybody not selling his LLLLs on current market price can not be counted an end-user!

I am a fan of LLLLs myself, but I really want prices to be based on real sales and thorough analysis.

[italiandragon]

Originally Posted by ssamriga

well the 3char price guide as the author said is not an opinion but a sales analysis, so it is quite different. of course there may be because of it something like an infinite loop - people follow the guide, sell 'non premiums' lower, guide takes these prices into account and so they stay low. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=429599 Also Italiandragon is again counting real dictionary words as LLLs, these should never be counted. Same as '350k LLLL end-users', everybody not selling his LLLLs on current market price can not be counted an end-user! I am a fan of LLLLs myself, but I really want prices to be based on real sales and thorough analysis.

We can`t really take out LLL or LLLL ( please don`t forget that here we should be discussing ONLY LLL.com thanks) that are DICTIONARY words because many words have been considered without knowong that they WERE dictionary words BUT IN OTHER LANGUAGES.

[Pred]

Originally Posted by ssamriga

well the 3char price guide as the author said is not an opinion but a sales analysis, so it is quite different. of course there may be because of it something like an infinite loop - people follow the guide, sell 'non premiums' lower, guide takes these prices into account and so they stay low. Also Italiandragon is again counting real dictionary words as LLLs, these should never be counted. Same as '350k LLLL end-users', everybody not selling his LLLLs on current market price can not be counted an end-user! I am a fan of LLLLs myself, but I really want prices to be based on real sales and thorough analysis.

agreed
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=429599

[dag]

Originally Posted by italiandragon

We can`t really take out LLL or LLLL ( please don`t forget that here we should be discussing ONLY LLL.com thanks) that are DICTIONARY words because many words have been considered without knowong that they WERE dictionary words BUT IN OTHER LANGUAGES.

I disagree -- any known 3-letter words (that is, any domain where it was clearly being bought because of the word's meaning, not the acronym) should not be counted. Do you have examples of these 3-letter words from "other languages"?

[italiandragon]

Originally Posted by dag

I disagree -- any known 3-letter words (that is, any domain where it was clearly being bought because of the word's meaning, not the acronym) should not be counted. Do you have examples of these 3-letter words from "other languages"?

I don`t have sales examples but there are words in other languages that are just 3 letters.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=429599

for example in Italian some are:

ORO = Gold

ZIA = Aunt

ZIO = Uncle

ZIE = Aunts

ZII - Uncles

ERO = was/were (past of to be)

IRA = anger

PIU = PLUS

[Pound]

Originally Posted by italiandragon

We can`t really take out LLL or LLLL ( please don`t forget that here we should be discussing ONLY LLL.com thanks) that are DICTIONARY words because many words have been considered without knowong that they WERE dictionary words BUT IN OTHER LANGUAGES.

That's just like saying: LLL.coms are severely undervalued because a name with a "bad" letter, Sex.com, sold for millions.

[italiandragon]

Originally Posted by Pound

That's just like saying: LLL.coms are severely undervalued because a name with a "bad" letter, Sex.com, sold for millions.

No, you got it wrong.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=429599

Just because one sells for millions, it does not mean all are worth millions.

Are you guys finding difficult to understand WHAT I write maybe?

It may be possible....I`m not being ironic, since sometimes my English sucks.

Sorry about that.

[dag]

Originally Posted by italiandragon

No, you got it wrong. Just because one sells for millions, it does not mean all are worth millions.

No, that's exactly the point we're trying to make: just because, say, VIA.com sells for $157,000, that doesn't mean all LLL.coms are worth $157,000. That's why you can't count known words.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=429599

And regarding your list of 3-letter non-English words, yes, I know there are some (many!), but I was specifically looking for sales examples that had been previously included in regular LLL.com sales stats.

[italiandragon]

Originally Posted by dag

No, that's exactly the point we're trying to make: just because, say, VIA.com sells for $157,000, that doesn't mean all LLL.coms are worth $157,000. That's why you can't count known words. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=429599 And regarding your list of 3-letter non-English words, yes, I know there are some (many!), but I was specifically looking for sales examples that had been previously included in regular LLL.com sales stats.

But I like to include all LLL.com sales dictionary and non dictionary....what`s wrong with that?

[Pound]

Originally Posted by italiandragon

But I like to include all LLL.com sales dictionary and non dictionary....what`s wrong with that?

Because it doesn't reflect the actual sales of LLL.coms because of their 3 letter status. It also includes sales that would have been made even if the name had 7 letters. For example, LLLLLLLL.coms aren't valuable because computer.com sells for $2 million.

[dag]

Originally Posted by Pound

Because it doesn't reflect the actual sales of LLL.coms because of their 3 letter status. It also includes sales that would have been made even if the name had 7 letters. For example, LLLLLLLL.coms aren't valuable because computer.com sells for $2 million.

Right. To get a true sense of the value of LLL.coms (or LLLL.coms, etc.), you can't include things that are valued for reasons other than simply being an LLL.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=429599

I mean, of course, feel free to list those sales too...that's your choice. But if you include those stats in the actual calculations of LLL.com sales averages, you're really going to throw off the validity.

[italiandragon]

Originally Posted by Pound

Because it doesn't reflect the actual sales of LLL.coms because of their 3 letter status. It also includes sales that would have been made even if the name had 7 letters. For example, LLLLLLLL.coms aren't valuable because computer.com sells for $2 million.

I understand your point but I`m sorry, I disagree: even in the LLLL.com sales thread we list the dictionary ones and never anyone complained about it.

Now, I don`t understand why you would prefer 2 different threads: one for dictionary LLL.com and one for the non dictionary ones.

No one here is making a calculation based on average price , each one is an individual sale and each one must be evaluated independently IMHO.

Then of course you have your opinions that I respect.

Originally Posted by dag

Right. To get a true sense of the value of LLL.coms (or LLLL.coms, etc.), you can't include things that are valued for reasons other than simply being an LLL. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=429599 I mean, of course, feel free to list those sales too...that's your choice. But if you include those stats in the actual calculations of LLL.com sales averages, you're really going to throw off the validity.

indeed....WHERE did you see me writing LLL.com sales AVERAGES ?

[dag]

Originally Posted by italiandragon

No one here is making a calculation based on average price , each one is an individual sale and each one must be evaluated independently IMHO.

I think that's the only point being made here. No one would take issue with you listing them!

[-REECE-]

Taking the median usually does a fairly good job of taking the guesswork out of what is and what isn't a dictionary word in other languages. Lorenzo says ORO and ZIA are Italian words... To me, someone who doesn't know Italian, they just look like nice, pronounceable LLL.coms, but taking the median instead of the average will likely weed these (and most other) dictionary words out.

I definitely agree that they shouldn't be included in any price analysis, as they have little in common with a non-dictionary word, but it's still interesting to see what they sold for, even if it really means nothing for 99.9% of LLLL.coms out there.

[ssamriga]

Ok, so we can agree I guess that all LLL.com sales should be counted but if we want to get an average or lowest price then dictionary words should be left out.
Other language words of course remain a problem, though I think that mostly Italian or any other language words would rarely be used with .com but rather with their cctld, .it, .de etc. So their value as a word with .com could even be lower than with a cctld, but if seen only as a pronounceable letter combination, then .com is better.

[italiandragon]

Another one just ended at SEDO:

http://www.sedo.com/auction/auction_...artnerid=17505


KRW.com

5,900 Euro which at current exchange of 1.57 is about : $9,263

I noticed that when bidding is in Euro, there are less bids, maybe because people do not feel confident in other currencies? (despite Sedo offers a currency conversion tool...)

[jagusa]

Originally Posted by Spade

Has the LLL.com club become so exclusive (and expensive) , only few members belong?

Isn't it already like that. Sales threads and buyers all seem to be a small group.

Originally Posted by Spade

I remember at the end of 06 when you could pick them up at 2,500-3k without too much trouble. The rising prices in domain history suggest strong and continued growth, a very safe bet on this caliber of domain name.

LLL.com price growth has been very rapid over the last few years (I consider it something of a long, positive market correction). I think it will level off soon, and then appreciation rates will be closer in path to physical real estate values.