Network Solutions Grilled Over Front Running

estibot.com · 01-27-2008, 03:56 AM

Originally Posted by smashfactory

i am not knocking your post- but jays blog reads like he single-handedly worked towards rectifying the problem, and netsol "listened to him".
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/industry-news/415767-network-solutions-unethical-go-hand-hand.html

that info was all over, as well as the same types of suggestions to fix it, before jay got involved.
.....

the credit goes to the domainers who did not back down and pushed this to the limit.

Right you are, I read about it on Jay's blog first and got the impression they were acting as a response to his emails, but upon further reading, I see that the issue has been widely publicized by other notables as well, not to mention us mere mortals.

Kudos, then, to all.

PowerUp · 01-28-2008, 09:56 PM

So, which bulk search tools do you guys use now?

I see Netsol is still adhering to this anti-competitive policy. I searched for singlefiling dot com at GD, available. Then I searched for it at Netsol, available. In less than a minute, I went back to GD to check and it's no longer available.

I tried enom bulk search and it's not what I want. Tried GD bulk search and they only allow 4 extensions! Go figure.

**Dave Zan** · 01-28-2008, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by PowerUp

So, which bulk search tools do you guys use now?

I forgot to mention specifically that Moniker's bulk search does more than NS.
IIRC NS' is 200 while Moniker's 500.

PowerUp · 01-28-2008, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by Dave Zan

I forgot to mention specifically that Moniker's bulk search does more than NS.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=415767
IIRC NS' is 200 while Moniker's 500.

Thanks. I've tried it but it doesn't display the results like how Netsol displays the results. It's the presentation that really matters to me.

Has anyone tried namecheap's bulk checker? I wanted to try but looks like it's only for members. And I don't have an account with them.

gazzip · 01-29-2008, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by smashfactory

since this came to light, before jay "stepped in" network solutions was well aware i am sure of the problems they have caused, how unhappy everyone was, and of all the hub-bub going around.

people were posting all over the place, and it was in domain and other publications before his january 15th blog post about "his" suggestions. i am sure these same suggestions were sent along by other people, as well as being posted all over the web.

i am not knocking your post- but jays blog reads like he single-handedly worked towards rectifying the problem, and netsol "listened to him".

that info was all over, as well as the same types of suggestions to fix it, before jay got involved.

it was domainers all over that took outrage to a new level and put this in the limelight. i am sure jay meant well, but he did not do anything that was already being posted. netsol would not change all their policy for a program due to one guys email :-)

the credit goes to the domainers who did not back down and pushed this to the limit.

So true, what a Hero ! - its a pity jay does'nt bother to listen to other peoples opinions too regarding his own services IMO

(registrant search - is it right or wrong - 194 post - one post by him)
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=415767

.

estibot.com · 01-29-2008, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by network solutions

What is the Customer Protection Measure?
Network Solutions may reserve domain names that are searched on our Web site for up to 4 days. During this period, these domain names will only be available to register at networksolutions.com.

During this reservation period, the name is not active and Network Solutions does not monetize the traffic on these domains.

If a customer searches for the domain again during the next 4 days at networksolutions.com the domain will be available to register.

If the domain name is not purchased within 4 days, it will be released back to the registry and will be available for registration through any registrar.

Domain names searched on the WHOIS search page will NOT be reserved.

This protection measure provides our customers the opportunity to register domains they have previously searched without the fear that the name will be already taken through Front Running.

By holding the searched domains at Network Solutions for a short period, it allows our customers to take the time to decide whether this is the domain name that they really want to register.

This makes sense to me. It's a countermeasure against domain sniffers.

I'm satisfied that they will not reserve the names searched by WHOIS (because this is what matters to estibot users), the rest of the policy makes sense.

If you don't want NS to reserve the name, search for it on another registrar's website, but be prepared to lose it to sniffers.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=415767

Or am I missing somehting?

smashfactory · 01-29-2008, 11:26 AM

the thing is- domain sniffers can now just as easily set themselves up to swipe names from netsol after the 4 days- this does nothing. and, if you want the name before it drops after the 4 days, you have to pay netsol outrageous prices.

what sucks is- they did not give YOU the choice to hold it or not- they made that choice for you. and from what i understand, if someone searches for the same name, on netsol, in those 4 days, any netsol customer can reg it anyway. witth that being said, this was not in any way customer protection, it was a way to stuff the netsol bottom line in an invasive way.

npcomplete · 01-29-2008, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by gazzip

So true, what a Hero ! - its a pity jay does'nt bother to listen to other peoples opinions too regarding his own services IMO

(registrant search - is it right or wrong - 194 post - one post by him)

wrt Jay at domaintools, the irony is amazing isn't it. Gazzip's comment is an out of the park homerun.

Originally Posted by estibot.com

This makes sense to me. It's a countermeasure against domain sniffers.

I'm satisfied that they will not reserve the names searched by WHOIS (because this is what matters to estibot users), the rest of the policy makes sense.

If you don't want NS to reserve the name, search for it on another registrar's website, but be prepared to lose it to sniffers.

Or am I missing somehting?

I think you are missing the "golden rule": do unto others as you would have others do unto you. If everybody used sleazy business practices like netsol, then the namespace would be locked up overnight. Domainers for the most part don't use netsol, but do use places like Fabulous, Dynadot, Godaddy, Moniker, etc. We also search for more names in a single day than most one-domain-owner customers at netsol do in a year.

Sadly, some people/companies only respond to unethical business practices if the competition does likewise. The other companies like Fabulous etc. should follow this practice as a self protection measure. Locking up the entire namespace via other registrars following the same sleazy business model as netsol is probably the only way to get ICANN's attention.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=415767

Marc

goodkarmaco · 01-29-2008, 02:25 PM

Well said Mark.

**Dave Zan** · 01-29-2008, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by smashfactory

the thing is- domain sniffers can now just as easily set themselves up to swipe names from netsol after the 4 days

If you mean sniffers can lookup netsol's nameservers those reserved domains
are using, they've since put such on registrar-hold. RH doesn't report any DNS
updates whatsoever, essentially rendering them "invisible" like not reporting on
what X number of domain names are attached to them.

Besides, their (ex) CEO Chimp..errr, Champ said they'll stop it once ICANN has
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=415767
come up with something specific to address this. There's a thread already on
the subject, but time will tell how soon it'll turn into reality.

estibot.com · 01-29-2008, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by smashfactory

the thing is- domain sniffers can now just as easily set themselves up to swipe names from netsol after the 4 days- this does nothing. and, if you want the name before it drops after the 4 days, you have to pay netsol outrageous prices.

what sucks is- they did not give YOU the choice to hold it or not- they made that choice for you.

Good points - but I thought NS wouldn't have the domain resolve to any nameservers so sniffers couldn't sniff them while they are reserved. I agree about giving the customer the choice, like a check box or something, that would be good.

Quote:

and from what i understand, if someone searches for the same name, on netsol, in those 4 days, any netsol customer can reg it anyway.

If the name wasn't reserved, anyone who would search for the same name, on any registrar, could reg it anyway so I don't see this as a problem.

Originally Posted by npcomplete

I think you are missing the "golden rule": do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

I don't think that's what I'm missing as the meaning of that is somewhat subjective

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=415767

Trying to weigh the pros and cons of the new Netsol policy, that's all. I'm trying to look at this from a neutral perspective (putting aside any emotions towards Netsol). What I do like about it is they are trying to do something to protect the customer from losing their domain name to sniffers if they don't register it immediately. The way they are going about this, though, seems to be problematic.

What are the other options for the registrar to protect the customers from losing the names they search but do not immediately register?

Thanks-

smashfactory · 01-29-2008, 07:53 PM

What I do like about it is they are trying to do something to protect the customer from losing their domain name to sniffers if they don't register it immediately.

the thing is, if that even remotely seemed like that was what they were trying to do from tthe beginning, that would be one thing- but it wasn't. hence all the flack from all over creation.

and it is hard to put any faith in any sort of program that rolls out as bad as it did, with 100% of the benefit of the program falling in netsols lap.

plus, not everyone is a netsol customer, even if they use the search from their site. that is like me walking thru a jcpenny, and every item i touch is taken off the shelf immediatly. i go to target, and it is unavailable there, at a cheaper price. so now i am either forced to pay the higher price, or chance it being bought from someone else after 4 days.

if there are those out there who know what you are searching for now, they are gonna make a way to find out what names are being held for 4 days, and grab it anyways. which leave those that seach on netsol forced to pay netsols prices.

i dont believe for one second that netsol had the customers best interest at heartt- not one bit. when the pages did resolve, anyone could reg it thru netsol, they advertised their own products, and they are trying to get a high reg fee out of you. by stopping me from going right away to reg alsewhere is not helping, it is hijacking.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=415767

i know you are trying to see the pros and cons :-)
but they should have this as a feature to their clients, in their client account, as should godaddy, moniker, ect.

AFTER you log into the account in which you will buy the name, BEFORE you search it, you check off, "Yes, hold for XX days."

and ONLY that customer should be able to buy it in that time, at the registrar of their choice. not random searches, but logged in, permission based searches.

its like they are charging you to look, and that is just going too far.

PowerUp · 01-29-2008, 08:35 PM

[QUOTE=smashfactory]that is like me walking thru a jcpenny, and every item i touch is taken off the shelf immediatly. i go to target, and it is unavailable there, at a cheaper price. so now i am either forced to pay the higher price, or chance it being bought from someone else after 4 days.
QUOTE]

.... er, not really. jcpenny taking that item off the shelve "to protect you from other prying eyes" = yes. But the item could have been sold by jcpenny to somebody else while you were at target. So much for "customer protection".

**Dave Zan** · 01-29-2008, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by smashfactory

it is hijacking.

Uh...hijacking stuff from you which you never owned to begin with? Personally
I find it bothersome when people use such words rather loosely, especially if/
when it has no logical or factual basis, but...it happens anyway.

While you won't be able to register it elsewhere for up to 4 days, you're not
being prevented permanently from being able to do so if you wait or call them
to drop it. Options exist, albeit people are understandably impatient.

No one's forced to believe whatever Netsol says, even though their reason to
do this validly exists. And neither is anyone forced to use their services.

Originally Posted by estibot.com

What are the other options for the registrar to protect the customers from losing the names they search but do not immediately register?

That's almost the same question Go Daddy's Tim Ruiz asked at ICANN meeting
in Marrakech, Morocco years ago, wherein they explained the same thing was
(actually is) happening to them as with Netsol. Netsol apparently decided to
answer that now with their current practice and can't wait for ICANN.

Originally Posted by PowerUp

er, not really. jcpenny taking that item off the shelve "to protect you from other prying eyes" = yes. But the item could have been sold by jcpenny to somebody else while you were at target. So much for "customer protection".

Or worse, someone at Target might find out what you want, go to JC Penney
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=415767
to buy that, then won't sell it to you.

**mis_chiff** · 02-08-2008, 11:49 AM

I thought this was resolved...
Even with all this public negativity.....their still doing it!

-NC- · 02-20-2008, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Last week, at its meeting in New Delhi, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers grilled the popular domain registrar about its recent efforts to protect/bilk loyal customers

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02...front_running/

Ctack · 02-20-2008, 04:10 AM

Their reasoning is interesting. The idea that netsol is temporarily holding domains to stop front runners from tasting the names is valid, but screwing over people and other registrars by forcing them to buy their name with one of the most expensive registrars is wrong, and at the very least there should be a presell warning or an option to delete the name so that you can register it somewhere else.

Network solutions is trying to find another sleazy way to profit, they have done it before. The thing that is scary is the boldness and grandiosity of their attempts.

italiandragon · 02-20-2008, 04:24 AM

also, does anyone find legit the fact that they auction domains that should still be in redempion period ? They deny the old registrant any right to renew their domain just after the expiry period since they auction these expired names.

Is this not against ICANN policy ?

smashfactory · 02-20-2008, 06:20 AM

this whole thing still blows me away that they are doing this-

godaddy should have used its superbowl commercial to say-

Hi. Here at godaddy, we dont hold your names hostage like network solutions does. we still have hot girls on our website, and our ceo still thinks he is 22, but we do NOT hijack your domains- so register with us!

would have been better then the commercial they had.

labrocca · 02-20-2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Basically, if you search its website for a particular domain but don't immediately buy it, the company registers the domain on its own and holds onto it for the next four days (under current ICANN rules, it can do so without paying a registration fee). This means that you can still purchase the address from Network Solutions, but you can't purchase it from any other registrar.

WOW...Imagine if every registrar started to do this. ICANN should immediately stop this type of activity. The leeching is unreal. Why oh why did ICANN let NSOL keep their dotcom monopoly.

-NC- · 02-20-2008, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by labrocca

Why oh why did ICANN let NSOL keep their dotcom monopoly.

Did NetSol and Verisign get completely split, so that Verisign runs the registry and NetSol is just a registrar?
( even if they did, I bet they're still best buds... )

~ The 34 Year Buzz!! · 02-20-2008, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by smashfactory

this whole thing still blows me away that they are doing this-

godaddy should have used its superbowl commercial to say-

Hi. Here at godaddy, we dont hold your names hostage like network solutions does. we still have hot girls on our website, and our ceo still thinks he is 22, but we do NOT hijack your domains- so register with us!
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=415767

would have been better then the commercial they had.

I would have like to see that.

RogueWriter · 02-20-2008, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by smashfactory

this whole thing still blows me away that they are doing this-
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=415767

godaddy should have used its superbowl commercial to say-

Hi. Here at godaddy, we dont hold your names hostage like network solutions does. we still have hot girls on our website, and our ceo still thinks he is 22, but we do NOT hijack your domains- so register with us!

would have been better then the commercial they had.

Hehe, I'd rather they have hot girls than hot guys!!!

.X. · 02-20-2008, 04:05 PM

The proof is top secret-LMAO.

The internet used to be a way, to get away from this crappy world we live in, every since the day 2008 came, Things have gone totally crazy on the net, What is next i wonder.

**Dave Zan** · 02-20-2008, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by -NC-

Did NetSol and Verisign get completely split, so that Verisign runs the registry and NetSol is just a registrar?

Correct. VeriSign completely sold off Network Solutions to Private Pivotal (now
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=415767
Nafaji Companies) years ago, which then sold them to General Atlantic about
last year.

01-29-2008, 11:26 AM	#257 (permalink)
smashfactory Domain Goddess Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,101	the thing is- domain sniffers can now just as easily set themselves up to swipe names from netsol after the 4 days- this does nothing. and, if you want the name before it drops after the 4 days, you have to pay netsol outrageous prices. what sucks is- they did not give YOU the choice to hold it or not- they made that choice for you. and from what i understand, if someone searches for the same name, on netsol, in those 4 days, any netsol customer can reg it anyway. witth that being said, this was not in any way customer protection, it was a way to stuff the netsol bottom line in an invasive way. __________________ BOO!

01-29-2008, 02:25 PM	#259 (permalink)
goodkarmaco Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Blaine, Wa. Posts: 1,976	Well said Mark. __________________ GOODKARMACO, "Tenisonline"

01-29-2008, 07:53 PM	#262 (permalink)
smashfactory Domain Goddess Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,101	What I do like about it is they are trying to do something to protect the customer from losing their domain name to sniffers if they don't register it immediately. the thing is, if that even remotely seemed like that was what they were trying to do from tthe beginning, that would be one thing- but it wasn't. hence all the flack from all over creation. and it is hard to put any faith in any sort of program that rolls out as bad as it did, with 100% of the benefit of the program falling in netsols lap. plus, not everyone is a netsol customer, even if they use the search from their site. that is like me walking thru a jcpenny, and every item i touch is taken off the shelf immediatly. i go to target, and it is unavailable there, at a cheaper price. so now i am either forced to pay the higher price, or chance it being bought from someone else after 4 days. if there are those out there who know what you are searching for now, they are gonna make a way to find out what names are being held for 4 days, and grab it anyways. which leave those that seach on netsol forced to pay netsols prices. i dont believe for one second that netsol had the customers best interest at heartt- not one bit. when the pages did resolve, anyone could reg it thru netsol, they advertised their own products, and they are trying to get a high reg fee out of you. by stopping me from going right away to reg alsewhere is not helping, it is hijacking. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=415767 i know you are trying to see the pros and cons :-) but they should have this as a feature to their clients, in their client account, as should godaddy, moniker, ect. AFTER you log into the account in which you will buy the name, BEFORE you search it, you check off, "Yes, hold for XX days." and ONLY that customer should be able to buy it in that time, at the registrar of their choice. not random searches, but logged in, permission based searches. its like they are charging you to look, and that is just going too far. __________________ BOO!

02-20-2008, 04:10 AM	#267 (permalink)
Ctack NamePros Regular Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 323	Their reasoning is interesting. The idea that netsol is temporarily holding domains to stop front runners from tasting the names is valid, but screwing over people and other registrars by forcing them to buy their name with one of the most expensive registrars is wrong, and at the very least there should be a presell warning or an option to delete the name so that you can register it somewhere else. Network solutions is trying to find another sleazy way to profit, they have done it before. The thing that is scary is the boldness and grandiosity of their attempts. __________________ Have $200 in revenue/monthly and/or 200 domains? PM me for a SedoPro code! Looking for Offers on Plate.tv $100 BIN.

02-20-2008, 04:24 AM	#268 (permalink)
italiandragon NamePros Expert Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: AUSTRALIA Posts: 6,438	also, does anyone find legit the fact that they auction domains that should still be in redempion period ? They deny the old registrant any right to renew their domain just after the expiry period since they auction these expired names. Is this not against ICANN policy ? __________________ www.MMCP.com www.decretoingiuntivo.net www.ipotecalegale.info www.swishersweetslittlecigars.com

01-28-2008, 09:56 PM	#252 (permalink)
PowerUp Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,268	So, which bulk search tools do you guys use now? I see Netsol is still adhering to this anti-competitive policy. I searched for singlefiling dot com at GD, available. Then I searched for it at Netsol, available. In less than a minute, I went back to GD to check and it's no longer available. I tried enom bulk search and it's not what I want. Tried GD bulk search and they only allow 4 extensions! Go figure.

01-29-2008, 08:35 PM	#263 (permalink)
PowerUp Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,268	[QUOTE=smashfactory]that is like me walking thru a jcpenny, and every item i touch is taken off the shelf immediatly. i go to target, and it is unavailable there, at a cheaper price. so now i am either forced to pay the higher price, or chance it being bought from someone else after 4 days. QUOTE] .... er, not really. jcpenny taking that item off the shelve "to protect you from other prying eyes" = yes. But the item could have been sold by jcpenny to somebody else while you were at target. So much for "customer protection".

02-08-2008, 11:49 AM	#265 (permalink)
mis_chiff Membership Director Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 9,207 Follow @mis_chiff	I thought this was resolved... Even with all this public negativity.....their still doing it!

02-20-2008, 06:20 AM	#269 (permalink)
smashfactory Domain Goddess Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,101	this whole thing still blows me away that they are doing this- godaddy should have used its superbowl commercial to say- Hi. Here at godaddy, we dont hold your names hostage like network solutions does. we still have hot girls on our website, and our ceo still thinks he is 22, but we do NOT hijack your domains- so register with us! would have been better then the commercial they had. __________________ BOO!

02-20-2008, 04:05 PM	#274 (permalink)
.X. Revolution Calling! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NamePros Avenue Posts: 5,807	The proof is top secret-LMAO. The internet used to be a way, to get away from this crappy world we live in, every since the day 2008 came, Things have gone totally crazy on the net, What is next i wonder.

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