Is "Deepfish" a threat!!? - Page 2

movingconcierge · 03-31-2007, 02:47 PM

100% agree

Quote:

-mobi doesn't require any change on the part of the user simply because the user just isn't there in the first place ...the user isn't using the mobile internet period, very few people even _use_ their phones to access the internet

ofclean · 03-31-2007, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by scandiman

It is? I have yet to see the local news being screened in a local theater. Does it happen where you are? But do you know it used to happen?

You need to go to the beginning of cinema and TV to understand the analogy.

Have you ever heard of a newsreel? It originated in the early days of motion pictures and faded away after WWII. It basically was as it sounds, a film reel documenting current event news and it was very common for people to visit a theater to view the newsreel. That is how the American public was exposed to propaganda war footage during WWII. For a time there were theaters that only showed newsreels. Once TV became mainstream the newsreel died away. People stopped going to the theater to see newsreels when they could get the info faster in real time at home, even though the quality of presentation couldn't compare.

The information was basically the same but was repackaged for a new presentation medium. News in theaters faded away and became a mainstream on TV. The internet has now caused TV news to begin to fade, and it is entirely possible that mobile internet news could siphon off PC internet news as mobile internet use becomes more mainstream. People want it NOW not when they get back home to their PC. Mobile internet use can give it to them.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/dot-mobi/310659-is-deepfish-a-threat.html

Whether or not .mobi will be a part of this future remains to be seen. I'm optimistic for a variety of reasons but ultimately the public will decide in time.

OK, in that case your analogy becomes even further from supporting your side.

TVs adopted what theaters were showing at a lower resolution. This exact same thing is happening with mobile phones! People don't want to view a sh*tty list of text when they view their favorite websites, they want to see what they are used to. As technology improves, browsers improve to allow more and more content to be shown on a smaller and smaller devices (not to mention that screens are getting bigger!).

.mobi does have one use that I can see... if a website starts off on .mobi, it tells consumers that their site will work (probably) on a mobile device. However, that is seriously hindered by trademark laws (all of the good names are all taken by .com counterparts, even if the name isn't regged!).

scandiman · 03-31-2007, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by ofclean

OK, in that case your analogy becomes even further from supporting your side.

TVs adopted what theaters were showing at a lower resolution. This exact same thing is happening with mobile phones! People don't want to view a sh*tty list of text when they view their favorite websites, they want to see what they are used to. As technology improves, browsers improve to allow more and more content to be shown on a smaller and smaller devices (not to mention that screens are getting bigger!).

.mobi does have one use that I can see... if a website starts off on .mobi, it tells consumers that their site will work (probably) on a mobile device. However, that is seriously hindered by trademark laws (all of the good names are all taken by .com counterparts, even if the name isn't regged!).

Thankfully TV content producers didn't simply show theater content at a lower resolution. They took advantage of the new medium and developed entirely new content that fit with how TV interacted with peoples lives. Daily news, sitcoms, game shows and soap operas are a few classic examples. Today, TV and cinema are significantly different animals. To simply port todays internet to a mobile window does little to take advantage of today's new medium. How people will interact with web content via mobile will be different than how we do so on our PC's. I admire the initiative of one of our fellow members izo-pod to live the mobile life as detailed in this thread http://www.namepros.com/dot-mobi/310...evelopers.html

I think there is a lot yet to be learned as to how best to develop for the mobile user. I will be adopting izo-pods methods in the near future to make the development process even more personal for me, not just taking a look at a site from time to time but to purposely make it my primary window to the world.

I am glad to see you acknowledge the branding value of .mobi in relation to mobile internet. Really, that is what it is all about. Thankfully there are LOTS of good .mobi names that don't have TM issues. Geographical names as a whole are generally free of problems and represent IMO a great market for mobile content. There is a long ways to go before anyone can claim with 100% certainty that .mobi will be the dominant brand in the emerging mobile internet. 100% clarity is afforded only in hindsight but of course by then great .mobi domains will not be available for reg fee.

Fundraiser · 04-01-2007, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by nombre

i disagree with most of your points but i will just address this one:

-mobi doesn't require any change on the part of the user simply because the user just isn't there in the first place ...the user isn't using the mobile internet period, very few people even _use_ their phones to access the internet

Sure it does. The user is there today, using a computer to access certain web sites to which they have become accustomed. They know the current navigation structure and layout. At a mobi address on a mobile device, this navigation structure will be different. Classic marketing is based on the 4 Ps - product, price, place and promotion - all being important to creating an exchange of value between a consumer and a business. Mobi will require a businesses to invest heavily in all aspects of marketing and the current web site user (uses the site on a computer today) will have to learn to adapt to a different experience in order for the same exchange of value to be conducted through a mobi address because of a forced coding standard.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=310659

Quote:

-it will be much cheaper for any web publisher that has a serious interest in the mobile web to simply get a mobi address and re-purpose whatever content they choose through their mobi domain, sticking with mobi guidelines and providing a clean, simple site that downloads quickly ...... this is the best and cheapest option rather than trying to force old technology by whatever deepfish or iphone fad comes along

What could be cheaper than having to do nothing different? Do you have any idea how much top web destinations have spent on developing their current sites, testing intuitive navigation and user paths? Clean and simple sounds nice but the practical application of altering a complex web site into a few text links at a time will lead to a deep navigation structure. As for old technology, simple coding allowing merely list after list of links with no visual design is old school all the way.

Quote:

-respecting the mobile user by paying attention to their needs is what will will succeed, not yet another failed re-direct or "new" coding scheme

Phone companies don't respect customers today. They never have. They have high priced data plans, multi year lock-in agreements with high termination fees, activation fees, etc etc. With a data plan on a phone, they lock the phone from being able to be used as a modem for a computer so that you have to pay for multiple plans. They control the software that operates the phone and usually you have only one choice per carrier. It is not an open environment where competitive forces provide the consumer with the best experience in mobile Internet.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=310659

No matter how much people talk about other Internet browsers being better, IE remains dominate because it is what people were given with their computer. There is a great advantage in controlling what is provided on equipment. That makes zoom technology a threat. There really is no debate about it being a threat. How much of a threat is where opinion comes into play and I respect that you and others have opinions that may be different than my own.

I have mobi domains. It is in my interest that mobi domains hold or gain value. I just am seeing technology options being explored more than I see mobi getting press. It is possible however that zoom technology could begin to get negative press based on user experience and if that was to happen, it would provide an opportunity for mtld to promote the benefits of their offering.

scandiman · 04-01-2007, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by Fundraiser

What could be cheaper than having to do nothing different? Do you have any idea how much top web destinations have spent on developing their current sites, testing intuitive navigation and user paths? Clean and simple sounds nice but the practical application of altering a complex web site into a few text links at a time will lead to a deep navigation structure. As for old technology, simple coding allowing merely list after list of links with no visual design is old school all the way.

You are absolutely correct, doing nothing different is the cheapest option for web designers. Technologies that allow for full sites to be viewed on a small device will encourage the complacency of designers because they may think they have mobile covered but really they don't. The small screen cries out for new forms of navigation and presentation, not just the port over from the PC. Many mobi sites may look old school right now but I think that bar will be raised as developers ratchet up greater levels of design depending on the phone capabilities, and this is precisely what mtld is encouraging.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=310659

A note on the zoom and scroll stuff. In a former life I was the lead instructor in a graphics computer lab for college students with physical disabilities. There was a zoom window feature that the visually impaired students used and while it allowed them to function, their productivity was seriously hampered because they couldn't see the whole screen. The whole screen was there but their eyes wouldn't let them see it. The zoom and scroll aspect of viewing a big site on a small screen is eerily similar to what I saw back in that lab and while it may make a regular site accessible, it is far from productive. I'm glad the technologies are coming and I will likely use it for the times I need it. But I'd much rather use a site with a user interface that accounts for my smaller device.

nombre · 04-01-2007, 09:43 AM

fundraiser
thanks for your well considered reply

Quote:

Technologies that allow for full sites to be viewed on a small device will encourage the complacency of designers because they may think they have mobile covered but really they don't. The small screen cries out for new forms of navigation and presentation,

scandimans post above says it very well ...... web designers don't want to break out of the box and give the mobile user the consideration for usability that he deserves ... they will be tempted to try junking up the screen with all manner of goo-ga's ... they will ignore the user with yet another "coding scheme" (sorry but i can't avoid saying it)

i am a huge fan of the mobi tld, i think they are dead right, if you read their guidelines, they say over and over again, "keep it simple", they advise against forcing the user through a complex navigation scheme

i can't find the numbers to back this up, so i am open to correction but i would bet the farm that the overwhelming majority of users would choose a small flip phone over a larger wider nokia, treo, blackberry ...people will always want to carry small ...which means that you will be designing for a screen that is about 1.5 x 2 inches

you say that the user is used to a certain kind of intuitive navigation, structure etc ....i say that the user doesn't even know what the mobile space is ... he has no preconceptions ...because he just doesn't go there .... the mobile internet space effectively doesn't exist yet

the mobi tld knows this and all of their guidelines emphasize the importance of simple, clean, fast-loading web sites which give the user the best experience

one thing we do agree on though is that phone companies behave like thugs !

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)