IDNs are the reality of the new domain industry

romeo33 · Jan 7, 2008

IDNs are the reality of the new domain industry

hi ..

IDNs are the domains of the near future..
maybe com net and now may be mobi are the leaders of this industry but in very near future IDNs is going to be the new leaders..
l dont say how ,i say only when?

why are the IDNs worth more..
internet does not only belong to America anymore.
we should improve its usage everywhere in the world.
if the internet is the leader,all domains and also IDNs will be the leaders too.

everybody has their internet connection,own language and own IDNs..
so IDNs are the reality for the future and for the countries..

why do other people have to use english while seraching on google insteaf of using their own language..?
and all we will have to love IDNs later soon..
because they will worth most..

regards
romeo

ThaiIDNs · Aug 13, 2008

lipps said:
If there are people out there that will find a value in something then the value will go up.
China may be 5 to 20 years out? there is alot of infrastructure to build
Japan has the infrastructure but needs population education and software updates to support. perhaps 3 to 5 years
India is prime. Try finding a good .IN domain idn in indoneasian language
There are lots of examples.
I prefer dot coms myself but Im not going to let the opportunities slip by this time like I did in the 80's

a) Population education in Japan - ever been there? No, I thought not.
b) "India is prime. Try finding a good .IN domain idn in indoneasian language" - where exactly is indoneasian and what language do they speak, lol
3) "I prefer dot coms" - shucks, all my IDNs are .com as well.

the level of understanding on this forum is frankly scary.

Mark · Aug 13, 2008

While most people do realize IDN's are becoming Stronger everyday ... The Business World has been and still is moving more and more toward English. English is one of the only Languages spread out among pretty much EVERY Country now (Go into most any Airport).

I can see the potential for IDN's to be the highest "registered" form of Domains (Populations in Asia could point to that by themselves) , But I can also see where this will increase the Gap between "Social Traffic" and "Business Traffic" online. Many of the largest companies already have an English based Domain and website - Even if they do have multilingual versions as the main site or even IDN's. Getting people not using English as their main language to come to "ASCII" Domains has never been a problem , But on the other hand - How many already speaking English would ever type in a IDN ?

I AM NOT Saying Business is not conducted in other languages by any means ! So do not go there ... I'm just saying It has been moving toward English for some time now.
I'm not basing this on the fact English is my Language ... But General facts.

Do and Will IDN's get Traffic ? No doubt ...
Will they ever get the same "Range" of Traffic as ASCII Domains ? I kind of Doubt it personally. Please Note I said "Range". Not the actual amount of Traffic.

ThaiIDNs · Aug 13, 2008

lol - "never been a problem" - how would you know how many chinese, japanese, thai people have struggled to remember and then type in even the simplest of ascii domains. all these people have been *forced* to use ascii domains, its not by choice !! How many people not having english as their main language do you think can remember ascii domains they see on billboards, advertised on tv / radio.

"Getting people not using English as their main language to come to "ASCII" Domains has never been a problem"

I'm going to use that as a quote, fantastic stuff ...

Mark said:
While most people do realize IDN's are becoming Stronger everyday ... The Business World has been and still is moving more and more toward English. English is one of the only Languages spread out among pretty much EVERY Country now (Go into most any Airport).

I can see the potential for IDN's to be the highest "registered" form of Domains (Populations in Asia could point to that by themselves) , But I can also see where this will increase the Gap between "Social Traffic" and "Business Traffic" online. Many of the largest companies already have an English based Domain and website - Even if they do have multilingual versions as the main site or even IDN's. Getting people not using English as their main language to come to "ASCII" Domains has never been a problem , But on the other hand - How many already speaking English would ever type in a IDN ?

I AM NOT Saying Business is not conducted in other languages by any means ! So do not go there ... I'm just saying It has been moving toward English for some time now.
I'm not basing this on the fact English is my Language ... But General facts.

Do and Will IDN's get Traffic ? No doubt ...
Will they ever get the same "Range" of Traffic as ASCII Domains ? I kind of Doubt it personally. Please Note I said "Range". Not the actual amount of Traffic.

yanni · Aug 13, 2008

ThaiIDNs said:
a) Population education in Japan - ever been there? No, I thought not.

I think he meant "direct navigation education" in Japan.

rhys · Aug 14, 2008

Not feeling like picking a fight tonight. So I'll take a deep breath and respond that this is an armchair philosophical argument you are making (with good intentions I know) that a little bit of real world research would quickly change your position on. I think you might be a victim of wishful thinking if you believe the business world is moving towards English in any significant way.

You aren't completely wrong about type-in traffic though. Many more people in this world don't speak English than do as an aggregate. Therefore, it is entirely likely that IDNs will receive over the medium term more aggregate traffic than English domains. However, traffic to the domains of any particular language depend on the pool of available speakers. Mandarin chinese speakers are two times as numerous as English speakers. And Hindi and Spanish are right next to English. Japanese, my favorite, is 11th in the world which isn't bad but then they make up for it by being one of the top 3 economies in the world.

Mark said:
While most people do realize IDN's are becoming Stronger everyday ... The Business World has been and still is moving more and more toward English. English is one of the only Languages spread out among pretty much EVERY Country now (Go into most any Airport).

I can see the potential for IDN's to be the highest "registered" form of Domains (Populations in Asia could point to that by themselves) , But I can also see where this will increase the Gap between "Social Traffic" and "Business Traffic" online. Many of the largest companies already have an English based Domain and website - Even if they do have multilingual versions as the main site or even IDN's. Getting people not using English as their main language to come to "ASCII" Domains has never been a problem , But on the other hand - How many already speaking English would ever type in a IDN ?

I AM NOT Saying Business is not conducted in other languages by any means ! So do not go there ... I'm just saying It has been moving toward English for some time now.
I'm not basing this on the fact English is my Language ... But General facts.

Do and Will IDN's get Traffic ? No doubt ...
Will they ever get the same "Range" of Traffic as ASCII Domains ? I kind of Doubt it personally. Please Note I said "Range". Not the actual amount of Traffic.

Mark · Aug 15, 2008

As usual .. People take anything said in here by a Non-IDN'er the wrong way.

Here's what I'm saying ...

There are over 5,000+ Languages easily in the World. Out of all of those languages somewhere between 20 and 25% of the World know some version of English.

Also :

English is far more world wide in its distribution than all other spoken languages. It is an official language in 52 countries as well as many small colonies and territories. In addition, 1/4 to 1/3 of the people in the world understand and speak English to some degree. It has become the most useful language to learn for international travel and is now the de facto language of diplomacy. In 2001, the 189 member countries in the United Nations were asked what language they wish to use for communication with embassies from other countries. More than 120 chose English, 40 selected French, and 20 wanted to use Spanish. Those who wanted English to be the common language included all of the former Soviet republics, Viet Nam, and most of the Arab world. English is also the dominant language in electronic communication. About 75% of the world's mail, telexes, and cables are in English. Approximately 60% of the world's radio programs are in English. About 90% of all Internet traffic is as well. However, the percentage of Internet users who are not native English speakers is increasing rapidly, especially in Asia

http://anthro.palomar.edu/language/language_1.htm

Some good reading :

http://anthro.palomar.edu/language/language_1.htm
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percent_of_the_world_speaks_English
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/53199
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=146

Diplomats use English and so do MANY MANY Large International Companies and Corporations when doing global Business. There are more International students being taught English than any other language (where it isn't their native language).

It's nothing against IDN's ... But I just don't see them as being "The Future" of all domains. Obviously for anyone who is directing Sites and Products toward Asia and other areas ... They make perfect sense. Personally - I have enough problems with my own language

So It's not for me.

Fragger · Aug 16, 2008

Mark said:
As usual .. People take anything said in here by a Non-IDN'er the wrong way.

Here's what I'm saying ...

There are over 5,000+ Languages easily in the World. Out of all of those languages somewhere between 20 and 25% of the World know some version of English.

Also :

Some good reading :

http://anthro.palomar.edu/language/language_1.htm
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percent_of_the_world_speaks_English
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/53199
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=146

Diplomats use English and so do MANY MANY Large International Companies and Corporations when doing global Business. There are more International students being taught English than any other language (where it isn't their native language).

It's nothing against IDN's ... But I just don't see them as being "The Future" of all domains. Obviously for anyone who is directing Sites and Products toward Asia and other areas ... They make perfect sense. Personally - I have enough problems with my own language So It's not for me.

This is exactly how I feel on the subject... I remember reading a big article in Time a few years ago about how rapidly many languages were vanishing from our world. In fact, India is now the largest English speaking country in the world, with more English speakers than the USA. Why? Well, because their economy is so dependent on the United States, they simply adapted to their situation.

From an article in the NY Times of Sept. 2007, "Of the estimated 7,000 languages spoken in the world today, linguists say, more than half are in danger of extinction and are likely to disappear within this century. In fact, they are now falling out of use at a rate of about one every two weeks."

I assume one day, as Globalization becomes more prominent, and it is simply more efficient to speak the language "everyone else is", that we will eventually all end up speaking whatever language remains most dominant. Sure, this probably wont happen until many centuries from now, but I feel it WILL happen. The main problem I see with IDN's now though, is how the hell am I supposed to negotiate a sale with someone when I can't understand what they are saying!

Go to this link, it gives stats on languages and their internet usage.

http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats7.htm

Chinese is number 2, however the significance is that Mandarin is the major language in only 5 countries. English is the major language in over 130. So, their is vastly more international communication done in English, and from a business standpoint, this is what is most important.

npcomplete · Aug 16, 2008

In the spirit of "piling on", I think it is also worth noting that almost all international scientific conferences are in English... regardless of which country is hosting the conference. I have to admit it is a bit humbling when the best I can do when giving a talk outside the US is to say a few token phrases like "good morning", and "where is the bathroom" in the host country language, compared to those from all over the earth at the same conference that can speak English - fluently.

I am a big IDN fan and think that there is real potential in that market, but it is important to keep things in perspective.

getaddicted · Aug 16, 2008

A great Post And lots of good comments...

Im From india and i feel.. here in india.. Idns would take over..

There are few reasons which i feel people havent talked about..

One important thing is Search Engines.. Whenever we type google.com or yahoo.com ... We are redirected to google.co.in and yahoo.co.in

And if anyone searches .. We get more indian related sites.. and more .in and co.in sites comming up..

And 2ndly.. hardly any .com's are available.. Now people are just buying here .in and .co.in for there companies, firms..

I feel in 3 to 5 years.. Here We will have more demand of .in and .co.in ( .in prefered )

Here in india.. people who dont have knowledge about internet or just 1 to 2% about internet.. They just know 3 words.. Google, Yahoo, and .com

But as daily all sites are getting Transformed to .in and .co.in And daily we are seeing good sites comming up.. I feel in future.. here .in and .co.in will rule.. And not to add.. Search engine getting localised....

This are my Views for indian market... And i feel it depends on country to country...

Thank you...

Fka200 · Aug 16, 2008

Everyone is talking about how "English is the language of business"... I do agree that English is the most commonly used language when it comes to situations like business and what not... but c'mon... how many teenagers do you see online that can't speak English fall into this category? The whole point of IDNs, IMO, is to target those that CANNOT speak English. This enables them to finally type in domains that they wouldn't know how to spell in English (ASCIIs) and forward them to content that they will actually understand. I agree with a lot of the negative and positive points here, but looking at the big picture... IDNs will probably have a piece of the pie in the future targeting those that cannot really speak English and want to get to domains they can actually remember (when there's a lot of content out there, it's harder for people to remember all the words in English if they can't speak the language).

I just finished writing an article on my blog about this... but not sure when I'm going to post it up.

wot · Aug 16, 2008

I have the ascii AND idn equivalents of a few Chinese names,in one particular instance the traffic to the Chinese idn.com is 25 times greater than that of the exact english translation in all instances the idn.com receives higher traffic.

Make of that what you will.

And as for what languages individuals prefer - their own of course- it's only very recently that people have had the option to choose.

Bramiozo · Aug 16, 2008

Mark said:
As usual .. People take anything said in here by a Non-IDN'er the wrong way.

Here's what I'm saying ...

There are over 5,000+ Languages easily in the World. Out of all of those languages somewhere between 20 and 25% of the World know some version of English.

Also :

Some good reading :

http://anthro.palomar.edu/language/language_1.htm
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percent_of_the_world_speaks_English
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/53199
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=146

Diplomats use English and so do MANY MANY Large International Companies and Corporations when doing global Business. There are more International students being taught English than any other language (where it isn't their native language).

Keep in mind that this is less important for online (tangible) product sales, online banking activity, loans, mortgages etc. etc. etc.. People will choose local products, local brands most of the time for the more important (and/or more expensive) activity and imo for most product sales of significant size (think shipping cost..).

Being able to communicate moderately in English doesn't mean you are comfortable with actually purchasing from an english site and/or that it's practical to do so.

There are exceptions that confirm the rule, sites like paypal, ebay, etc. but remember these sites have LOCALIZED versions, with a domain in different extensions and for the future perhaps in different languages.

If anyone here thinks someone from Germany will (normally) go to www.homeloans.com for a mortgage then that person should get a realitycheck by visiting a German forum on the subject, on any other forum on any other (relevant) subject.

Domainace · Aug 16, 2008

Wow. A whole lot of misinformation being tossed about here. And, worse, it's almost all completely beside the point.

You can argue all night about how much traffic IDNs will take from English domains (and it will be significant, since the vast majority of people in the world who are not scientists and international businessmen don't speak English to any significant degree.)

The real issue is: Either way, what are you going to do about it?

I speak Japanese fairly well, but I completely avoid Japanese TLDs. Why? )(Besides the fact that a domain resellers market in Japan doesn't exist.) Because, unless you are intimately familiar with the language, you are likely to make huge mistakes, like using similar but wrong characters, uncommon usages, etc. It's not worth it. Leave it to the native speakers.

Similarly, China is huge, and almost nobody speaks English, and they are not going to any time soon. Take away the few who do, who are the people foreigners have the most contact with. If you want to reach the masses in China, you have to speak Chinese. If you don't, then partner with a Chinese person. I see people hanging onto domains like mortgage.cn as though they are gold. Apologies if that name belongs to anyone here, but that will never have all that much value. It's the wrong language.

So, whatever the outcome, stick to what you know and to languages you know. If you want to market overseas, get a native to help you. And don't even think about machine translation!

I'll stick to English myself. Plenty of opportunity there.

wot · Aug 16, 2008

Domainace said:
Wow. A whole lot of misinformation being tossed about here. And, worse, it's almost all completely beside the point.

You can argue all night about how much traffic IDNs will take from English domains (and it will be significant, since the vast majority of people in the world who are not scientists and international businessmen don't speak English to any significant degree.)

The real issue is: Either way, what are you going to do about it?

I speak Japanese fairly well, but I completely avoid Japanese TLDs. Why? )(Besides the fact that a domain resellers market in Japan doesn't exist.) Because, unless you are intimately familiar with the language, you are likely to make huge mistakes, like using similar but wrong characters, uncommon usages, etc. It's not worth it. Leave it to the native speakers.

Similarly, China is huge, and almost nobody speaks English, and they are not going to any time soon. Take away the few who do, who are the people foreigners have the most contact with. If you want to reach the masses in China, you have to speak Chinese. If you don't, then partner with a Chinese person. I see people hanging onto domains like mortgage.cn as though they are gold. Apologies if that name belongs to anyone here, but that will never have all that much value. It's the wrong language.

So, whatever the outcome, stick to what you know and to languages you know. If you want to market overseas, get a native to help you. And don't even think about machine translation!

I'll stick to English myself. Plenty of opportunity there.

What disinformation and what is beside the point in particular needs to be addressed :?

I think you will find a lot of people here already have done quite a lot about it although this is not the place that those who know what they are doing tend to hang out in- and yes idn.cn/.com are already seeing quite a few significant sales and ability to go to sites via ones own language is only in it's infancy.

I also have a significant english based portfolio but do not find it difficult to see the huge potential of idns- I just continue to be amazed at those that don't. IM-HO.com

Stick to what you know or learn something new, I think that is how progress is made. -hmm

rhys · Aug 17, 2008

Mark said:
As usual .. People take anything said in here by a Non-IDN'er the wrong way.

Here's what I'm saying ...

There are over 5,000+ Languages easily in the World. Out of all of those languages somewhere between 20 and 25% of the World know some version of English.

I have no need to sell you on IDNs. One invests as one believes, its fine. I don't think I took your comment in a hostile manner. Quite the opposite in fact. As someone who works in a large international conglomerate and deals with people in dozens of countries around the world in English and occasionally other languages every week, I'm just saying that the phrase you use "know some version of English" is misleading. The vast majority of those people who "know" english do not want to function in English unless they have to, don't like to search for information using it, don't like to receive their primary information using it. If capitalism has taught us anything it is that when someone figures out how to deliver to people the things they want in THE WAY THEY WANT IT, they make out very well. IDNs are a solution for people held hostage by the tyranny of ASCII only domains. English domains are great for english speakers and that's about it. But English is just not the primary language of most people in the world. It's indisputable.

Domainace said:
Wow.

I'll stick to English myself. Plenty of opportunity there.

As for you Domainace, if your Japanese is that good, I would encourage you to try your hand in Japanese domain names. It isn't really that hard for anyone who speaks and reads Japanese. No risk no reward. It's much easier than you might think.

BTW, you can get Japanese IDN in .com and .net if you'd rather speculate on .jp.

Fragger · Aug 17, 2008

Held Hostage by the Tyranny of ASCII only domains?

Lol. Quote of the week. Who exactly enforced this tyranny upon the rest of the world? I'm pretty sure ASCII means American Standard Code for Information Interchange. Meaning it was developed by AMERICANS, for AMERICANS. We never forced anyone else to have to use it....... or is it Tim Berners-Lee's fault that he spoke English when he began developing Hypertext Transfer Protocol? Who exactly is responsible for this "Tyranny"?

Domainace · Aug 17, 2008

I'm not immune to the lure. I'll sitting on nhkbs.com for who knows how long. The thing is, there will be a long wait. With the renewal fees for .jp, which I think will become the preferred domain, you are talking a lot of money that could be put to work faster elsewhere. I don't see Japanese IDNs paired with .com taking off - too contradictory. So, the gamble is to invest not a small sum in IDN.jp, and wait. Wait for Japanese IDNs to become popular. And wait for Japanese to even become aware of domain investments as a concept.

Go to Yahoo auctions, and scan the domain listings. Notice the complete lack of bidders. Not one in all the auctions.

On the positive side, when these things do catch on in Japan, they tend to go ballistic. Look at housewives trading Forex.

I may take a stab at one or two, but I prefer to go after things I can trade in the near future, unless they are cheap, like .coms. And like I said, Japanese IDNs.coms just look weird to me, so that's out.

You may be right, and living in luxury 5 years down the road. I'm just not going to put more money than I can afford to throw away in Japanese IDNs, unless I see something spectacular.

And rhyse, that link in your signature is a nice surprise. See? I'm getting tempted...

0899228957 · Aug 17, 2008

Fragger said:
Held Hostage by the Tyranny of ASCII only domains?

Lol. Quote of the week. Who exactly enforced this tyranny upon the rest of the world? I'm pretty sure ASCII means American Standard Code for Information Interchange. Meaning it was developed by AMERICANS, for AMERICANS. We never forced anyone else to have to use it....... or is it Tim Berners-Lee's fault that he spoke English when he began developing Hypertext Transfer Protocol? Who exactly is responsible for this "Tyranny"?

Who enforced the tyranny? Why I think they go by the acronym of ICANN - who have been kicked dragging and screaming into opening domains up beyond ASCII. So yes, Americans.

Domainace said:
I'm not immune to the lure. I'll sitting on nhkbs.com for who knows how long. The thing is, there will be a long wait. With the renewal fees for .jp, which I think will become the preferred domain, you are talking a lot of money that could be put to work faster elsewhere. I don't see Japanese IDNs paired with .com taking off - too contradictory. So, the gamble is to invest not a small sum in IDN.jp, and wait. Wait for Japanese IDNs to become popular. And wait for Japanese to even become aware of domain investments as a concept.

Go to Yahoo auctions, and scan the domain listings. Notice the complete lack of bidders. Not one in all the auctions.

On the positive side, when these things do catch on in Japan, they tend to go ballistic. Look at housewives trading Forex.

I may take a stab at one or two, but I prefer to go after things I can trade in the near future, unless they are cheap, like .coms. And like I said, Japanese IDNs.coms just look weird to me, so that's out.

You may be right, and living in luxury 5 years down the road. I'm just not going to put more money than I can afford to throw away in Japanese IDNs, unless I see something spectacular.

And rhyse, that link in your signature is a nice surprise. See? I'm getting tempted...

Just wondering why japanese IDN .coms look weird if .jp's don't ?

Domainace · Aug 17, 2008

0899228957 said:
Just wondering why japanese IDN .coms look weird if .jp's don't ?

Well, this is simply my opinion. Japanese script seems very traditional and conservative, while English appears trendier. Likewise, dot.com seems trendier than a familiar dot.jp. Personally, I would more tempted by an IDN.jp than by the other. Dotcom implies foreignness, and is better suited to English, or at least romaji.

Off subject, but .tv seems to have gained some currency here. That might work with either.

Still, since any profits still seem off in the future, all of these perceptions might change in the meantime. And also, I might not know what the heck I'm talking about!

mulligan · Aug 17, 2008

Domainace said:
I speak Japanese fairly well, but I completely avoid Japanese TLDs.

Domainace said:
I'm not immune to the lure.

So which is it?

Domainace said:
... Because, unless you are intimately familiar with the language, you are likely to make huge mistakes ...

I for one started with no knowledge of Japanese and I would love to make a few more of those 'huge mistakes' I've been making for the past 2.5 or so years .. throwing good money after bad ... Damn, I just renewed hundreds and hundreds of those 'huge mistakes' recently .. for the second time!

Domainace said:
With the renewal fees for .jp, which I think will become the preferred domain, you are talking a lot of money that could be put to work faster elsewhere.

If the definition of a 'lot of money' is the same price or less than .com / .net then yes, it is a lot of money. Being able to speak Japanese 'fairly well' I'm surprised you are not aware of this.

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